Devilish34 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 You have more pride in yourself than that. Good. Obviously he doesn't. A lot of people don't have a problem with that level of quality of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfsharkalligatorhalfman Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 My mother volunteers a lot of her time at a food bank and she has said that most of the people that come in are (a) working poor and (b) people that have fallen on hard times and want nothing more than to get out. They get a few a-holes who think they are scamming the system and they seem to know every trick in the book (going to 8 different food banks and getting a Christmas turkey at each of them and then selling 7 of them). But by and large those on government aid want nothing more than to get off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetsGoDevils Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." -- excerpt from MLK, I Have a Dream speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Clearly the solution to this problem is to hand pick a few impoverished minority people and force people to give them jobs because of the color of their skin. Like I said, I'd love to hear your solution. The "ignore the problem and hope it goes away" solution is the typical response of white males. LGD: You truly and honestly believe that Martin Luther King would think it a glorious and wonderful day when 40% of black children are being raised in poverty compared to 10% of white children? Somehow, some way, the economic divide that keeps minorities in the cycle of poverty has to be broken. And nobody has given a strong, plausible, solution beyond "AFFIRMATIVE ACTION = BAD". If you criticize the means to a good end, I would hope that you would have a better means in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOULAM1 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." -- excerpt from MLK, I Have a Dream speech. I have a dream that a potential NJ State Trooper will not be judged by the color of his or her skin but rather afforded the job with no test score curves involved that rule in favor of a minority candidate. To point out MLK, a GREAT AMERICAN-- "...They will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the the content of their character." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Did it occur to you, Don, that maybe there is no good solution? Or that maybe it's too late to wait until everyone's in the working world to address the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Did it occur to you, Don, that maybe there is no good solution? Absolutely that occurred to me. Given that that is what I have been saying all along. Lacking a good solution, then you look to the least bad solution. That's better than throwing up your hands and saying there is no solution. And I agree that maybe waiting until the working world might not be great... but people complain bitterly about affirmative action access to universities as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 LGD: You truly and honestly believe that Martin Luther King would think it a glorious and wonderful day when 40% of black children are being raised in poverty compared to 10% of white children? Do you think MLK would think it glorious and wonderful day that 57.7% of black kids are being raised without a father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Absolutely that occurred to me. Given that that is what I have been saying all along. Lacking a good solution, then you look to the least bad solution. That's better than throwing up your hands and saying there is no solution. The "least bad solution" to racially-based issues is even more racism? Great, we're fvcked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I would say the "least bad" solution is to say nobody can discriminate based on race, not give advantages to people based on sex and race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I would say the "least bad" solution is to say nobody can discriminate based on race, not give advantages to people based on sex and race. Not for white apologists like Don. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOULAM1 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 "I would say the "least bad" solution is to say...": Get rid of "enterprise zones" where the so called taxpayer (Korean etc...) is actually taxed and gives the black neighborhoods back to the blacks. Pretty simple. From a corporate standpoint, I will not go there right now as the "CARD" is being played everywhere and it is the reason our corporations suck at present! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I would say the "least bad" solution is to say nobody can discriminate based on race, not give advantages to people based on sex and race. No. That's not a solution at all. That is the 'do nothing' scenario in which whites will continue to make significantly more than black families due to the cycle of poverty. Those born in inner cities will not get a good education, will be raised in poverty, drop out of school to earn money to pay for food for their families.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 No. That's not a solution at all. That is the 'do nothing' scenario in which whites will continue to make significantly more than black families due to the cycle of poverty. Those born in inner cities will not get a good education, will be raised in poverty, drop out of school to earn money to pay for food for their families.... what planet do you live on? Ever hear of Abbott Schools? Abandoning your children to sling dope is more of what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Earlier in this thread, if you read through, I said the BEST solution would be to ensure that each and every child had the best education possible. However, I didn't think that raising taxes to the extent required to improve the schools in economically disadvantaged areas would get the support required. I didn't think that you would be FOR spending $7.8 billion a year in New Jersey for the public education system and increasing taxes this year to pay for the $532 million increase in spending on public schools. Good for you Jimmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Good for me? The Dumacrats LOVE pouring money into an endless cesspool of waste and corruption......all in the name of "the children". There is so much corruption and outright thievery going on...........and the school districts that are managing themselves get outrageously shortchanged because of the Abbott Districts, it's scandalous. You should see the enormous, way overboard schools that are being built while my property taxes go through the roof to pay for an unfixable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) I'll tell you what I wish -- I wish private industry would take a cue from Harvard and Yale and start charging proportionately to income. Not for luxury items of course. but what the hell why not try mixing capitalism and socialism? Harvard and Yale are enacting sliding tuition. I know Yale's plan is 10% of your income up to annual household incomes of $180K (I think) - if it's over $180K you pay full tuition. To me that just makes sense. Where we are now - interms of public education - no child left behind is a decent starting point. it's not doing nothing but it's not a grossly ambitious undoable plan. As for affirmative action...the question is BOTTOMLINE: is whitey beholden to all the people of color they've taken advantage of throughout history? In Israel, where the current situation is relatively fresh -- they say to the Palistinians "you lost the war go fvck yourselves - had your chance and LOST" -- yet see they do have to make some concessions That's applicable to the native American situations in US and Canada ... but slavery - there was no war -- it was kidnapping robbing -- it was criminal and it was international. I think the US is the only country that has really assumed a real responsibility for it (I may be talking out of my ass though). I like that it's all out in the open -- but there is a clear economic gap -- is that cultural? Did the white man create and maintain that culture for the black man? Well.. yeah. And if some idiot wants to say we aren't responsible - well we dragged the problem by force to our shores so it's our responsibility now. I think Affirmative action is required to a point -- to a logical point. The logical ground is the middle ground. but I have no answer. I think it needs to be tackled economically though and the key is education. I don't think those suppositions are wrong. I am in such a big hurry -- and this is a huge issue no stupid message board can tackle. I Do get annoyed when people say it's not the general publics job (government's and private industry's) not our problem to solve. In my opinion in IS the ENTIRE societies problem to solve. I am happy to share in solving societies problems. I am society -- it's my problem. every generalization and vaguery is correct - Don's and Jimmy's that doesn't make it less our problem. OUR problem for everyone to share in solving. Guys... it's an impossible question to answer and I don't think it's apprpriate to make it a cultural issue. It needs to be an economic issue -- you don't humiliate any one set of people acting like the bountiful white society making ammends. This society has taken advantage of many a culture - Chinese, South American, Irish. If it's economic you help out everyone who NEEDS the help. It's not preferntial - it's based on need No one knows how to solve it that's why no one has. you can't please everyone. Is it harmful to go to an extreme one way or the other? How do acheive centralism on the issue? Edited January 12, 2008 by Pepperkorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Good for me?The Dumacrats LOVE pouring money into an endless cesspool of waste and corruption......all in the name of "the children". There is so much corruption and outright thievery going on...........and the school districts that are managing themselves get outrageously shortchanged because of the Abbott Districts, it's scandalous. You should see the enormous, way overboard schools that are being built while my property taxes go through the roof to pay for an unfixable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleton_devil Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) ... I am curious what you all think about Affirmative Action, especially in the workplace? Thoughts? Edited January 14, 2008 by littleton_devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) No. That's not a solution at all. That is the 'do nothing' scenario in which whites will continue to make significantly more than black families due to the cycle of poverty. Those born in inner cities will not get a good education, will be raised in poverty, drop out of school to earn money to pay for food for their families.... Edited January 12, 2008 by Devils731 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Good for me?The Dumacrats LOVE pouring money into an endless cesspool of waste and corruption......all in the name of "the children". There is so much corruption and outright thievery going on...........and the school districts that are managing themselves get outrageously shortchanged because of the Abbott Districts, it's scandalous. You should see the enormous, way overboard schools that are being built while my property taxes go through the roof to pay for an unfixable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nork Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I know some Newark schools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOULAM1 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Can we lay off the sarcasm? Can we agree that this country can do better? Can we try to come up with solutions that will benefit the least of those among us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I know some Newark schools too. Some do string training, some have primary healthcare for the children, some include the families. I know some agencies that make mental health therapy available for children and families. I know some agencies in Newark that are trying to make primary healthcare available on a "drop in" basis. I know some agencies in Newark that focus on palliative care. I know some agencies in Newark that help children that have been abused in any number of ways. I know lots of agencies trying to do lots of good in Newark.Can we lay off the sarcasm? Can we agree that this country can do better? Can we try to come up with solutions that will benefit the least of those among us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleton_devil Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) ooops ... Edited January 14, 2008 by littleton_devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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