Don Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I know you're being sarcastic, but in all seriousness, that seems to me to be the only real reason for affirmative action. However, it's flawed. Making up for racism with more racism only serves to perpetuate racism. And why should the people of today have to pay for the sins of their ancestors?I'm reminded of a verse from Ben Folds' "Rockin' The Suburbs": In a haze these days I pull up to the stoplight I can feel that something's not right I can feel that someone's blasting me With hate and bass Sending dirty vibes my way 'Cause my great great great great granddad Made someone's great great great great granddaddy slaves It wasn't my idea It wasn't my idea It never was my idea I just drove to the store For some Preparation H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 But you know what, Don? Affirmative action has never really affected you. You have a great job at a salary that you have admitted in the past embarrasses you, you have a nice house in what I'm assuming is a good neighborhood, you have every material possession you want. It's a piece of cake for you to say that white people -- especially white men -- should be held back in some perverse attempt to even the playing field at a faster pace than perhaps nature would have it because you're not one of the people who will get clipped by that. And even if you have been denied a job or a promotion because the rules dictated that quotas were more important than quality, it sure doesn't seem to have stopped you from becoming a highly successful person. In summary, it seems to be that you -- or anyone, for that matter -- have no business saying "yes, this group of people should be forced to sacrifice their opportunities for advancement in order to correct history's mistakes" unless you're willing to be one of those people who gets held back. Are YOU willing to surrender an opportunity that otherwise would have been rightfully yours to someone who hasn't earned that opportunity and is only getting it because some law says so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 BUT the issue is that ever since his great great great granddad had slaves, african americans have been stuck in a cycle of poverty. To perpetuate the economic advantage is to profit from slavery. I know I don't want to be part of that. Maybe others do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesterDevil Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) They are in a cycle of poverty because the Democratic party has created a life long dependence of federal handouts, with no incentive to work. Edited January 9, 2008 by JesterDevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Will people get over this "150 years ago" thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesterDevil Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Will people get over this "150 years ago" thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Yeah I wish people would get over something that happened 150 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 We could always take every black person who descended from a slave and send them back to the country they came from. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 We could always take every black person who descended from a slave and send them back to the country they came from.Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 BUT the issue is that ever since his great great great granddad had slaves, african americans have been stuck in a cycle of poverty. To perpetuate the economic advantage is to profit from slavery. I know I don't want to be part of that. Maybe others do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) I don't have a problem with affirmative action per se, but basing it solely on race or gender is idiotic. Edited January 10, 2008 by Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Err... that's what affirmative action is almost by definition. As for the rich black kid getting the job over the poor white kid, that is obviously a problem. Affirmative action is completely flawed. I just don't see a workable alternative. Edited January 10, 2008 by Devilish34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfsharkalligatorhalfman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 don, your attitude makes it clear that you see people in terms of race and gender and do not actually see them as separate individuals. Who cares that there is a gap between white and minorities, why not make a big deal about how there is a gap in salary between short and tall people (true) or attractive and unattractive people (also true)? Separating people into arbitrary groups like race and gender is stupid and only further separates people instead of letting them be judged for who they are. To battle racial or sexual discrimination with more racial or sexual discrimination accomplishes nothing except further separates people into cookie cutter definitions of identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comandante Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Under affirmative action, women start closing the wage gap with men.Under affirmative action, minorities start closing the wage gap with caucasians. So I can understand the white men in this thread being against it. Personally, if someone can find some other way to close the wage gap, I'd love to hear it. I don't like affirmative action... I just dislike the other options more. Edited January 10, 2008 by Comandante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltab213 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I have no right to complain. BUT, I did EXTREMELY well in school and then when given a chance by my employer, I worked very hard to move ahead. So I moved ahead despite my employer having a very strong affirmative action program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Well this could be a way.. But it's only worth something if you're about to change the economic gaps between different groups in the society! And this is done through many types of actions.. Higher taxes for those who earn alot of money and lower for those who don't for example! Almost every single problem in societys should disappear if there was social and economic equality! It's true.. No one can say something else.. Most of the problems do come from unfair conditions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comandante Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You mean this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yeah but they're still very low! I'm not going to argue about the taxes you've got in th US.. I know it's a sensitive thing! But you've got to understand that many problems wouldn't exist if there was a better, more devoloped social welfare in your country!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yeah but they're still very low! I'm not going to argue about the taxes you've got in th US.. I know it's a sensitive thing! But you've got to understand that many problems wouldn't exist if there was a better, more devoloped social welfare in your country!! Nein. Far too many people in this country are satisfied to forgo an honest living in favor of living off the government as it is. We don't need more. I'm not going to comment about Europe's approach to welfare, but in America, the idea behind welfare was supposed to be that of a temporary assist for an individual or a family while the breadwinner(s) looked for gainful employment. However, for far too many reasons than I'm willing to delve into at this juncture, it's turned into an entire subculture of people who don't even bother trying to provide for themselves because they figure Uncle Sam's got it taken care of. Sure, there are some people out there who use welfare for its original purpose, but the abuses run rampant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilish34 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 My new tax is anything over 20k is taxed 100% and then the government can decide what to do with it. The fairest thing would probably be to give it to women and minorities to make up for past injustices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 However, for far too many reasons than I'm willing to delve into at this juncture, it's turned into an entire subculture of people who don't even bother trying to provide for themselves because they figure Uncle Sam's got it taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millfield Marksman Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Nein. Far too many people in this country are satisfied to forgo an honest living in favor of living off the government as it is. We don't need more.I'm not going to comment about Europe's approach to welfare, but in America, the idea behind welfare was supposed to be that of a temporary assist for an individual or a family while the breadwinner(s) looked for gainful employment. However, for far too many reasons than I'm willing to delve into at this juncture, it's turned into an entire subculture of people who don't even bother trying to provide for themselves because they figure Uncle Sam's got it taken care of. Sure, there are some people out there who use welfare for its original purpose, but the abuses run rampant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) You've just described the Democrat base. Methinks you paint with far too broad a brush. Most Democrats wouldn't be caught dead on welfare, at least not as a permanent way of life. Edited January 11, 2008 by RowdyFan42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Holy crap. Okay. I knew this guy in university who decided to drop out of school. He said that he could live on welfare his whole life.... "this is a great country... I can sit on my ass and watch TV all day and get paid to do it" he said. We went to his apartment once. I'd never go back. Between the cockroaches and the dealers hanging around outside I was sufficiently put off of going back to that part of town ever again. I even had nightmares of losing my job and ending up in the same apartment building as this guy. I can't believe that you can say that there is "no incentive to work". My mother volunteers a lot of her time at a food bank and she has said that most of the people that come in are (a) working poor and (b) people that have fallen on hard times and want nothing more than to get out. They get a few a-holes who think they are scamming the system and they seem to know every trick in the book (going to 8 different food banks and getting a Christmas turkey at each of them and then selling 7 of them). But by and large those on government aid want nothing more than to get off it. My new tax is anything over 20k is taxed 100% and then the government can decide what to do with it. The fairest thing would probably be to give it to women and minorities to make up for past injustices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Okay. I knew this guy in university who decided to drop out of school. He said that he could live on welfare his whole life.... "this is a great country... I can sit on my ass and watch TV all day and get paid to do it" he said. We went to his apartment once. I'd never go back. Between the cockroaches and the dealers hanging around outside I was sufficiently put off of going back to that part of town ever again. I even had nightmares of losing my job and ending up in the same apartment building as this guy. I can't believe that you can say that there is "no incentive to work". You have more pride in yourself than that. Good. Obviously he doesn't. A lot of people don't have a problem with that level of quality of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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