After Last Night...

[HellOnICE]

I'm sorry, last night was a warning flag. In attendance, it was just awful. Those lines, just don't look they are going to work. Niewendyk is not a number 1 center for Elias. I really do think a trade is needed to bring in an established center, preferablly with size, and a scoring wing. The Sabres maybe wouldn't do it, unless they are desperate or salary dumping. BUT

Niedermayer,Madden,2 and/or 3rd,and/or prospect

for

Gratton/Satan

Elias-Gratton-Brylin

Satan-Gomez-Friesen

Langenbrunner-Niewendyk-Gionta

Stevenson-Danton-McKenzie

Stevens-Rafalski

White-Tvo

Daneyko-Zyuzin

I like that. Who knows with the salary situation with both teams, especially in Buffalo. This could help us. We could always trade for some utility defense if need be.

[Yeah, I suck]

I would do that trade in a heart beat, but Buffalo would only trade Satan for the likes of Elias, Brodeur and such. Satan is their franshise player, and they won't give him up for a 3rd line center, with 3 prospects, and a good defenseman.

[Sarge18]

Instead of Satan we could perhaps get Afinogenov(sp?) back. He is still young and has loads of offensive potential.

[NJayDevil]

Let's not jump to conclusions.

[Triumph]

With the Sabres tenuous financial situation, there's no way they add a player like Niedermayer.. and especially not for Afinogenov, who's still cheap and has 30 goal potential.

Plus, Gratton isn't a 1st line center by any stretch of the imagination. He'd be perfect for the third line, though.

[sundstrom]

tri's hit it on the head. i wanted gratton/satan too, but i wanted gratton for 3rd line duty. if newy doesn't get it done as a first line center, then we're in trouble.

[insanity_gallops]

I, for one, believe that Nieuwendyk can get the job done as a 1st line center.

But to go along with trade possibilities in this thread, I'll put that aside and go on the assumption that he can't cut it anymore.

So he doesn't get it done. We need a # 1 center. What team is going to give up its number one center that would:

a) provide the size we're looking for

B) immediatly provide serious offense and not be a defensive liability

c) be possible for us to keep around for a relatively long amount of time so that we don't get the short end of this trade

d) be available for who we're willing to offer

Right now the only real #1 center name that I'm hearing thrown around is Lecavalier, and I think I'd be quite upset if we dealt for him. I think he's overrated and that he'll be a great 2nd center if he makes it onto a better team. But I feel that he won't live up to the billing for him -- too much pressure was put on him too quickly in too poor of a situation.

So who could we actually grab?

[insanity_gallops]

Forgot to add something.

I don't think that, if we acquired him, Lecavalier could be locked up long-term for what the Devils are willing to offer him. He'll want major money once he gets to the point of being a UFA, and would probably like to go to a team out West.

[sundstrom]

nobody. #1 centers don't get traded very often, and I can't think of one that would at this point. right now, everyone thinks they've got a chance and they're not dealing one of their top offensive players. perhaps, in a few months, if say st. louis stinks, a weight or demetra will come available. or carolina will crap out and we can get francis. but the players that we really want, the joe thorntons, the modanos, federovs, etc. aren't coming.

[insanity_gallops]

Then if that's the case, I don't understand why people are suggesting trades that will put #2 or #3 centers in the #1 center slot when Nieuwendyk will do the same job, if not better.

[Z-Man]

Forgot to add something.

I don't think that, if we acquired him, Lecavalier could be locked up long-term for what the Devils are willing to offer him. He'll want major money once he gets to the point of being a UFA, and would probably like to go to a team out West.

I wouldn't want Lecavalier either, because Tampa would want too much in return.

But the UFA point isn't a factor, since Lecavalier is only 22. He's got 9 years until he can leave as an unrestricted FA.

[Weekes Head]

I highly doubt the Sabres would expect Brodeur for Satan.

Gratton is not a first line center. He would be nice...but not for the first line. Give Nieuwy a chance - he's a great player, and he's capable of wonders on this team.

[NJayDevil]

I would want Vinny L but not at any high price. And I agree with sundtstrom there about if the Blues stink up the joint this year that Weight or Pavel could be on the block and they would mostly definitely take in a Raf or Nieder type player since Pronger is injury-prone and MacInnis is reaching the end of his career. So if the Devs get a #1 type center, i say look for it to come from the Blues.

[Triumph]

Doug Weight has a 9 million dollar contract and a no trade clause.

Satan's hardly a franchise player; he's good, but he's no Elias or Naslund.

The Blues still need scoring on the wings; they lost Scott Young and haven't replaced him. They won't be dealing Demitra any time soon.

A team that needs a defenseman like Niedermayer or Rafalski or Tverdovsky is one that is on the brink of Cup contention. San Jose is a club that has plenty of fine young talent, and does not have a game-breaker on the backline quite yet. But, unless the Devs think someone like Cheechoo is going to be an NHL star, they shouldn't be dealing one of the three for youth..

A team is unlikely to deal a slumping star player or veteran for an offensive defenseman simply because offensive defensemen are usually the missing link... not something that helps out a struggling team. Heck, Anaheim proved that when they dealt Tverdovsky.

[Derek21]

Satan's hardly a franchise player; he's good, but he's no Elias or Naslund.

Are you kidding here? Satan's the most underrated right wing in the game. Who exactly has he had playing with him the past few years in Buffalo?

Would you like me to provide you with some facts just to show how silly a statement "he's no Elias or Naslund" sounds?

Put them in Buffalo and let's see how they do without any supporting cast. Satan is a very good player who most people don't even know.

[Triumph]

Who's he been playing with? Tim Connolly, a very talented center, and probably someone like Dumont on the other wing.

Miroslav Satan is a step down from Elias and Naslund. He doesn't have Elias's strength or Naslund's wrist shot.

I stand by my statement.

[Derek21]

Man, you really are wrong. Tim Connolly? Hahahaha... he didn't do anything special with Buffalo last year?

And you're comparing that to talented players like Sykora, Arnott and now Nieu-wen-dyk?

It's not even close! Miro leads his team in goals and points every season. He is relied on for the bulk of their offense. They don't have the talent the Devils do or the money to afford what NJ pays for other premium players.

They are built mostly through drafts and trades and on the cheap.

I will get back to you with the stats. Back. Here is the proof that Satan get no credit and with a sh!tty supporting cast.

Satan's Last 4 Years:

GP G A PTS +/- PP SH GW

'98-99 81 40 26 66 24 13 3 6

'99-00 81 33 34 67 16 5 3 5

'00-01 82 29 33 62 5 8 2 4

'01-02 82 37 36 73 14 15 5 5

Note: He also led them in points in '97-98 with a whopping 46 (22-24-46 in 70 GP).

*Satan quietly finished tied for 15th in scoring in '01-02.

Compare it with Elias' last four seasons and you might want to rethink your statement.

Elias' Last Four Seasons:

GP G A PTS +/- PP SH GW

'98-99 74 17 33 50 19 3 0 2

'99-00 72 35 37 72 16 9 0 9

'00-01 82 40 56 96 45 8 3 6

'01-02 75 29 32 61 4 8 1 8

Question: Did Elias get nominated for the Hart in '00-01?

[brylin18]

how about actually watching the goddamn games. i take elias any day of the week over satan. bring up whatever garbage you have, i'd still take elias over satan.

[NJayDevil]

Elias over Satan, no fvcking doubt about that.

[Derek21]

how about actually watching the goddamn games. i take elias any day of the week over satan. bring up whatever garbage you have, i'd still take elias over satan.

Bry, I just did. Read the above post.

Reality Check: The two players aren't that different.

One guy plays with marquee talent. The other doesn't. So, I wouldn't call it "garbage."

[brylin18]

if elias played with "mites on ice" and satan played with team canada, i'd take elias over satan. who the two players play with has absolutely nothing to do with comparing the quality of two players.

elias is faster, a better playmaker, just as good a shooter, more physical, and by the latest reports, willing to be a big leader for the devils. elias is the superior player.

[Derek21]

if elias played with "mites on ice" and satan played with team canada, i'd take elias over satan. who the two players play with has absolutely nothing to do with comparing the quality of two players.

I disagree. If a talented player has better surrounding linemates, it's going to be easier for him to succeed.

elias is faster, a better playmaker, just as good a shooter, more physical, and by the latest reports, willing to be a big leader for the devils. elias is the superior player.

The playmaker part is debatable. Who else finishes on the Sabres? It's not like Satan's had another great player who could finish a la Sykora in Elias' career season. And he's faster? LOL... go watch some Sabres games. Their speed is not different at all.

Miro does it almost by himself and he already wears an 'A.' So, there goes that argument. When Nieuwendyk gets the other 'A,' what will you have to say then?

Just because a guy speaks up and is quoted in the paper a lot doesn't mean he's automatically "a leader." Leaders are defined by what they do. Let's see if he continues to produce with all his talk.

Elias is expected to be the man. Satan already is.

[Triumph]

Please, Derek, just watch the games and you'll see what Brylin is talking about.

Elias is the better player. He's stronger, hits more, plays more chippy, doesn't get knocked off the puck as easily.

Reality check: the players aren't that much different. You're right. Elias is still better.

Satan is the better stickhandler. I think he might also have a better shot release, but that's debatable.

What would you rather have in the playoffs, a better stickhandler or a stronger player?

Satan is more capable of doing it by himself. He's perfect on a team like Buffalo. Put him with a playmaker, and I don't think he would improve very much.

Stop justyfing yourself with statistics, and actually go by evidence..

[Derek21]

Tri, so because Bry supports your theory, you and he are automatically right?

I don't think so. Elias isn't any different than Satan. In fact, Satan's been the more consistent player.

You guys have to be joking to not take into account that Elias benefited from playing on the best line in the league.

And to put down Satan and say he couldn't do better with caliber players is preposterous.

I am done debating this because it's clearly obvious that you and your partner are only going by "black and red glasses."

There's a word for people like yourselves. I think you both can figure it out.

[Z-Man]

This is a joke. Ask the 30 NHL GM's which player they'd rather have, and I bet most, if not all of them would say Elias.

Derek, because you're the only non-Devils fan in this thread, that makes your opinion "right" because you think we are not being objective? And you're the "sensible" one in this argument?

If you really feel that Satan and Elias are on the same level talent wise, you don't know as much about hockey than I thought you did.

Remember, it's probably alot easier to lead your team in scoring when you're not on a Cup contender year after year. Satan hasn't been in that position since 99. Elias has been the go to guy on a top team for the past few years.