Zubrus to be bought out.

[themightyall]

I'm not sure what was said before but I thought I'd clarify since so many people tried making my point without actually having it, then we can get back on topic about Zubrus.  I feel like I am just waiting for this last trade that is my impatience short term.  Shero keeps hinting at it and I keep waiting for it but I don't see it.  I only value Palmieri for what he has actually done to improve the team (Moore was an unqualified RFA, hardly something to praise).  I feel like that is the point of a GM and I'm sort of surprised that this offseason is considered a success considering it was just Palmieri, plus letting players that contributed were allowed to walk (Bernier, Gomez) without replacing them.  They being replaced by players that couldn't replace them last year.  So the point of a GM is to make the team better and he has done nothing to do that.  If you say that wasn't the point for this year, I'd say you want the team to tank, not rebuild.  That's fine if you want them to tank, but I prefer not the euphemisms.

 

If it's about the impatience long term, it's because I don't agree with tanking.  Getting marginally better each year and keeping a concept of winning is better than throwing out the concept of winning for a couple of years because it is hard to get back to a winning concept (especially with the same GM, coach, owner, etc) with any player that was in the culture of "losing is ok."  Lou may not have been the best with a lot of things, but culture there is bar none.  I really like the Palmieri trade, and I hoped for one other piece that would contribute to the top 9 for our team this year.  That's it.  Two top 9 forwards in an offseason isn't impatient.  It's just a step in the right direction and not towards tanking.

 

 

Fans who only follow the Devils don't have any idea about how this stuff works.  They just expect to go to the arena and see a winning team.  That's not how it works and the Devils have been chipping away at the idea of future wins since dealing for Doug Gilmour in 97 - almost every trade after that was something that was for now and not later.  The Devils received draft picks for dealing Vadim Sharifijanov, Sean Brown, David Hale, David Steckel, Jamie Langenbrunner, Jason Arnott, and that's basically an exhaustive list since 1999.  Meanwhile they traded prospects or picks in a huge amount of deals.

 

The rebuild isn't a guarantee, but you're not guaranteed wins no matter what you do.  The Devils just need a 1st line added on top of the existing team to be a playoff team with a decent shot at going deep.  Well, they probably need a 3rd D pairing too, but that's easy to fix.  Of course it's impossible to just add a 1st line in an off-season unless you have the huge resources that the Sabres had built up, but the defense and goaltending is there when this team actually gets forwards, and it should still be there in 3 years when the forwards start to arrive.

 

Chipping away since '97?  This is just so short-sighted.  How small are the chips when they go to a Stanley Cup Final in '12 if they have been chipping away since '97?  If you only look at keeping "assets," look at the Kovy trade alone.  If you tell me we give away a 1st that didn't amount to anything, a prospect that didn't amount to anything, another prospect that amounted to maybe a 3rd liner and a solid Dman that wasn't going to be kept anyway, and then we get Kovy, that is a good trade.  Things didn't work out well after the fact, and sure chalk that up to whatever you'd like, but that is not chipping away at the future, that is using a team that is like us now in stealing the only good players they have because they were always looking to the future.

 

If anyone wants to talk more about Tank vs Rebuild, I welcome you to make a thread about it and I'll post if I find something interesting.  I know if I make a thread to that affect, I'd probably be deemed a troll, which is the only reason I have not done so yet.

 

As for Zubrus, he was definitely a player that should have been bought out had it been any benefit to the team.  If he were demoted to Albany, it actually would have been better for everyone except the "deep pocketed" owners because there would have been at least a little cap relief this year to make the team better.  But Zubrus's buyout was either monetary for a team that is already at the bottom of the cap floor, or for "roster flexibility" that I would wonder how it could have possibly when there aren't 23 players on the Devils that could warrant an NHL start, Zubrus included and him easily able to play in the AHL if Shero so desired.

Edited August 3, 2015 by themightyall

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I'm not sure what was said before but I thought I'd clarify since so many people tried making my point without actually having it, then we can get back on topic about Zubrus.  I feel like I am just waiting for this last trade that is my impatience short term.  Shero keeps hinting at it and I keep waiting for it but I don't see it.  I only value Palmieri for what he has actually done to improve the team (Moore was an unqualified RFA, hardly something to praise).  I feel like that is the point of a GM and I'm sort of surprised that this offseason is considered a success considering it was just Palmieri, plus letting players that contributed were allowed to walk (Bernier, Gomez) without replacing them.  They being replaced by players that couldn't replace them last year.  So the point of a GM is to make the team better and he has done nothing to do that.  If you say that wasn't the point for this year, I'd say you want the team to tank, not rebuild.  That's fine if you want them to tank, but I prefer not the euphemisms.

 

If it's about the impatience long term, it's because I don't agree with tanking.  Getting marginally better each year and keeping a concept of winning is better than throwing out the concept of winning for a couple of years because it is hard to get back to a winning concept (especially with the same GM, coach, owner, etc) with any player that was in the culture of "losing is ok."  Lou may not have been the best with a lot of things, but culture there is bar none.  I really like the Palmieri trade, and I hoped for one other piece that would contribute to the top 9 for our team this year.  That's it.  Two top 9 forwards in an offseason isn't impatient.  It's just a step in the right direction and not towards tanking.

 

 

The season doesn't start until October.  Again, why is it so friggin' imperative that Shero gets what you want right this second?  The offseason is still ongoing.  He may be able to pick up another Top 9 or two during the season. 

 

Do you know what a true tank even is?  Do you know what a team that is truly trying to tank would do?  Zubrus would've been kept and given the same ice time he was last season, because we know he'd be awful.  A guy like Joe Whitney gets re-signed and he, Paul Thompson, and Mike Sislo all get a shot at Top 6 minutes, Top 9 at the very least, for the entire season even if their progress is minimal.  Shero looks into dealing Schneider for assets (players and picks that will start to help in 2-4 years, but clearly isn't helping the team right now). 

 

Zubrus was dumped and others were allowed to walk so that Shero would have flexibility to add a player or two that might help in the seasons to come.  Why is it such a big friggin' deal that he's waiting to see what becomes available in time?  Maybe there's no one on 8/3 that appeals to him...and yeah, no sh!t his job is to improve the team...duh!  Did it ever occur to you that Shero's idea of improving the team is to show the slightest bit of patience so he has some more options, that maybe his best deals to be made haven't materialized yet?  Did it ever strike you that as teams inevitably realize that their dream of making the playoffs is just that - a dream - that doors that were closed start to open? 

 

Just the fact alone that Schneider is here and not going anywhere should tell you that this is not a tank job in the slightest, because provided he stays healthy and plays to his typical level, he'll start his 65+ games and give his team upper-level goaltending.  His presence pretty much makes the team a 75+ point entity. 

 

Your timetable for the "improvement" is preposterous and beyond unreasonable.  I'll give you the same advice I would give to the rest of the entitled instant-gratification crowd:  go watch one of the right-now teams for a while, because you obviously don't have the patience for this.  The new GM's been here for a whopping three months and for most of that time was in a sticky situation with Lou still being here.  The season doesn't start for another two months.  Give the guy some friggin' time.  God damn. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Triumph]

I'm not sure what was said before but I thought I'd clarify since so many people tried making my point without actually having it, then we can get back on topic about Zubrus.  I feel like I am just waiting for this last trade that is my impatience short term.  Shero keeps hinting at it and I keep waiting for it but I don't see it.  I only value Palmieri for what he has actually done to improve the team (Moore was an unqualified RFA, hardly something to praise).  I feel like that is the point of a GM and I'm sort of surprised that this offseason is considered a success considering it was just Palmieri, plus letting players that contributed were allowed to walk (Bernier, Gomez) without replacing them.  They being replaced by players that couldn't replace them last year.  So the point of a GM is to make the team better and he has done nothing to do that.  If you say that wasn't the point for this year, I'd say you want the team to tank, not rebuild.  That's fine if you want them to tank, but I prefer not the euphemisms.

 

Offseason's not over.

 

 

If it's about the impatience long term, it's because I don't agree with tanking.  Getting marginally better each year and keeping a concept of winning is better than throwing out the concept of winning for a couple of years because it is hard to get back to a winning concept (especially with the same GM, coach, owner, etc) with any player that was in the culture of "losing is ok."  Lou may not have been the best with a lot of things, but culture there is bar none.  I really like the Palmieri trade, and I hoped for one other piece that would contribute to the top 9 for our team this year.  That's it.  Two top 9 forwards in an offseason isn't impatient.  It's just a step in the right direction and not towards tanking.

 

That 'culture' missed the playoffs the last 3 years.  What's so galling about these playoff misses is that some of them could've been averted with better lineup and personnel decisions.  Instead the 'culture' decided that players like Salvador and Zubrus were necessary and good.  Shero's just as vulnerable to this as Lou was, but at least he's not doing it in Year 1.  

 

Chipping away since '97?  This is just so short-sighted.  How small are the chips when they go to a Stanley Cup Final in '12 if they have been chipping away since '97?  If you only look at keeping "assets," look at the Kovy trade alone.  If you tell me we give away a 1st that didn't amount to anything, a prospect that didn't amount to anything, another prospect that amounted to maybe a 3rd liner and a solid Dman that wasn't going to be kept anyway, and then we get Kovy, that is a good trade.  Things didn't work out well after the fact, and sure chalk that up to whatever you'd like, but that is not chipping away at the future, that is using a team that is like us now in stealing the only good players they have because they were always looking to the future.

 

A first that didn't amount to anything?  The 1st that was used to select Kevin Hayes, a guy who showed up in the NHL last year as a 3rd line center with the possibility of being a 2nd line center.  I don't know if the Devils would've picked Hayes - I don't really care.  NJ was in the position to make that trade - they had a decent forward prospect pool at that time - and they did, but it's obviously since come out that the Thrashers had their pick of guys - they could've taken Nick Palmieri, Adam Henrique, or Patrice Cormier, and they picked Cormier.  What if they picked Henrique?  Now things look worse.  I'm totally fine with the Kovalchuk trade and I'm totally fine with just about every move that was made over that time.  They were moves that made sense.  You're not in this thing to stockpile assets, you're trying to win Stanley Cups, and that was the intent of the Kovalchuk trade - it was unclear how long players like Elias and Brodeur could maintain their ability as world-class players.  I do think there were enormous unpatched holes on that 09-10 team, though.

 

But the time comes when your best players are going to get old and you're going to be unable to replace them.  in 2012, the Devils did go to the Stanley Cup - let's look at what happened to that team afterwards:

 

The 2nd line for most of that run was Sykora-Elias-Zubrus.  Sykora never played in the NHL again.  Zubrus scored 16 more goals over 2 and a quarter seasons.  Elias has finally stopped being a Hall of Fame level player.

 

3rd line was Ponikarovsky-Henrique-Clarkson.  Ponikarovsky played 1 more season in the NHL; he was a 4th liner in the KHL last year.  Clarkson has become a 4th liner in the NHL.  Henrique's a 2nd/3rd line player.

 

Even if you managed to keep Parise and Kovalchuk, you had to find options to replace the 4 players I mentioned who have become terrible, plus replace Elias's ability, and the Devils have done almost nothing of the sort, because they had no young players who could fill those spots.  They filled Kovalchuk or Parise's spot with Jagr and that went great but everything else around that did not.

 

If anyone wants to talk more about Tank vs Rebuild, I welcome you to make a thread about it and I'll post if I find something interesting.  I know if I make a thread to that affect, I'd probably be deemed a troll, which is the only reason I have not done so yet.

 

The fact that you can't distinguish between yourself and William D'Aquila in terms of message and ability to communicate is very weird.  'Well, I think I'm okay at public speaking, but there's this bum I saw once who also believed in emancipation, and who shouted at the top of his lungs all the time; I was tempted to let him make the Gettysburg Address", said a humbled Abraham Lincoln.

 

As for Zubrus, he was definitely a player that should have been bought out had it been any benefit to the team.  If he were demoted to Albany, it actually would have been better for everyone except the "deep pocketed" owners because there would have been at least a little cap relief this year to make the team better.  But Zubrus's buyout was either monetary for a team that is already at the bottom of the cap floor, or for "roster flexibility" that I would wonder how it could have possibly when there aren't 23 players on the Devils that could warrant an NHL start, Zubrus included and him easily able to play in the AHL if Shero so desired.

 

Dainius Zubrus has played in the NHL since 1996.  He's never played a game in the AHL.  Do you think he wants to play in the AHL?  He has a family and AFAIK lives in South Jersey - do you think he wants to go live in Albany for most of the year?  How do you think the Devils' veteran players would react to this guy being sent down?   Sending him to the AHL is much more of a 'monetary' move since odds are he would just up and retire rather than do that, and that saves the Devils his entire salary.  That would be a real cost-conscious move for the bean counters.

 

Not to mention that your premise is wrong - I can easily find 14 forwards in the Devils' system better than Zubrus, because he was awful last year.  Awful beyond measure.  O'Brien, Kalinin, Sislo, Thompson, Matteau, Boucher, probably Zacha - it's hard to imagine any of these people being worse.  Even someone like Blandisi would probably be better.  It's hard to put into words just how bad Zubrus was last year.

[2ELIAS6]

I'm a Devils-Yankees-Giants fan [emoji11] and I agree I am very spoiled!

same here!