Triumph Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Seeing what Paul Kariya did a week ago, a win-win situation for everything except his integrity, could Oleg Tverdovsky do the same? Tverdovsky will have the same 10 years in the league at the end of the 03-04 season. No team in their right mind will want to sign him to a long-term deal, so a team could sign him to a 1 year, 1.3 million dollar deal, and then Oleg could try to sign a long-term deal once he's rehabilitated a stagnant career, and re-established himself as a potential #1 in the NHL. Now, I doubt the Devils can get him for this price.. he's stuck behind 4 guys in Jersey and barring injury troubles for Niedermayer and Rafalski, will not realistically have a shot to amass more than 30 points as a Devil. But I would not be at all surprised to see him sign a 1 year deal in the 1.3 million with a team looking to vault itself into Cup contention before the CBA meltdown, then trying to score big out West when the CBA expires, possibly with St. Louis or Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Interesting scenerio Tri, It is possible as the market is certainly shifting towards that end. My question is: do we need him? I wasn't impressed by him in the playoffs at all. He was easily the weak link on D. He still has the potential to learn the system, but will this be to the detriment of Giroux, Hale or Martin??? Is he worth it? I would rather break in the new kids, rather than having Tivo play a year and leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanity_gallops Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I could see him potentially doing that, but not in NJ. If he signs a one-year deal, my guess is he'll probably do it with a team that's playoff-hopeful, but not a serious cup contender. If he goes to a weaker team that is pushing for the playoffs, he'll have increased ice time, which will pad his points. I think Oleg wants to prove to the NHL that he's still a highly skilled offensive d-man, and that playing in NJ hasn't "ruined" him. If he did all that, then after the CBA I could see him getting picked up by a team making a push for the cup and willing to put him on the top two pairings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck27 Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 If all the recent reports are true, Tvo probably will sign a 1 year contract, which is probably in his best interest if he can have a good season. Personally, I'm not sure what this guys potential is. His defensive game, passing, and hockey sense are all sub-par for the way he is rated, and I never saw this blinding speed he supposedly has. But, I do think the head injury from earlier in the year had a significant effect on his game, so maybe he can re-gain whatever his old form was. I don't see the Devils signing him regardless of what he's asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 Well if Oleg signed in New Jersey, it would show he is determined to be capable of playing within a solid defensive system. After all, this is a guy who hadn't been out of the 1st round until this year, so it's not like even when he was looking like a potential #1, his teams were doing all that well. Right now, offensemen like Tverdovsky look like an anachronism; will any team pay big bucks for a guy like him when it's clear that without a commitment to defense, teams don't win in the NHL? Oleg should look at the example set by ex-countryman Sandis Ozolinsh, who may have given his sagging career a facelift by subsuming himself into a system in Anaheim after being a colossal failure in Carolina; Tverdovsky should do the same wherever he signs. Do we need Tverdovsky? If he's coming for 1.3 million, absolutely. The Devs won't be able to survive if they slice away the bottom 4 D from the club, Giroux would just be another Yalie who is in over his head at his position.. while a stellar minor league defenseman, I don't see Giroux possessing enough skill to make it at the NHL level. Hale and DeMarchi have not played a game of pro hockey. Relying on kids just coming out of college is a strategy doomed to failure, most of them are not ready for the 100+ games that Lou's Devils have to hope to play in this coming season. And if Tverdovsky sucks again, we can always deal him out West; for 1.3 million, he's once again tradeable. I'd love to get Calle Johansson in here, and I'd love to have Albelin back as the #7 defenseman, but there aren't a lot of options for Lou if he plans to cut all 4 guys loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Devs Fan Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 It makes no sense, to me, for Tivo to come back here. His value is at an all time low, not only due to the injuries but to the fact he rode the pine thru a great deal of the playoffs. If he returns he will fare no better with this team as he just doesn't have the mindset to play NJ Devils defense; his best option, IMHO, is to get a one year deal out West and build his value up. Playing in NJ just isn't his best option, certainly not with Burns as our coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 can't see t-vo coming back. our 6th defenseman is not a huge concern to me right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueNJ97 Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 If Dano doesn't retire we can pretty much close the door on Tivo coming back for a year. And we'll know that by the end of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastdevfan Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 T-vo should sign with the Ducks. They all love him out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeygal109 Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 T-vo should sign with the Ducks. They all love him out here. Are you being sarcastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I vote for Calle Johnsson and the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I vote for Calle Johnsson and the kids. yep me too... sounds good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tretyak 20 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Tivo should be brought back at a lower price if at all possible. Dano and Albelin should both retire IMO. Both are just too slow, and will struggle to keep up. Albelin was great in the playoffs, but does nobody remember how much of a liability he was through most of the season? Giroux is not the answer. He's a career minor-leaguer. Last year he played above himself all year, a repeat performance is about as likely as another Steve Thomas 40 goal season. He's already 27 - leaving no real room to grow. If Giroux is brought up, he'll dissapoint and be traded to an expansion team for future considerations by mid-season. Sundstrom - The 3rd D pair is actually VERY important. Like Tri said, the Devs have to plan on playing 100+ games next year. You just can't rely on only 4 D's and expect to win. The Devils need 5 reliable D's if they want to go for another Cup. The 6th spot can be filled by one of the rookies, but two rookies on a pair is a dissaster waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Sundstrom - The 3rd D pair is actually VERY important. Like Tri said, the Devs have to plan on playing 100+ games next year. You just can't rely on only 4 D's and expect to win. The Devils need 5 reliable D's if they want to go for another Cup. The 6th spot can be filled by one of the rookies, but two rookies on a pair is a dissaster waiting to happen. Unless one of them pulls a Jackman or Rafalski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Tretyak: I think Lou is very high on Giroux and I recall reading that Lou stated he already had a spot on the roster this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 10, 2003 Author Share Posted July 10, 2003 If Lou's high on Giroux, he's high on something else too.. as Tretyak says, the guy is 27, and the only comparison to Rafalski is that both played in Europe too. So of course Giroux's going to make the roster, Lou isn't going to sign 2 free agent defensemen, so if he signs one, which is unlikely in itself, that leaves a spot for Hale and a spot for Giroux. If he did sign 2, Hale would probably start the year in Albany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 well I was thinking about the kids coming from college maybe making an impact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I guess we will have to see Tri. I also recall Lou purposely called up Giroux during the playoffs so he could observe what it takes to win in the playoffs and to feel part of it. Eitherway, it will be interesting to see how if Giroux can live up to Lou's expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brylin18 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 the guy is 27.....he's not a prospect....he's a journeyman/stopgap/reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tretyak 20 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Sundstrom - The 3rd D pair is actually VERY important. Like Tri said, the Devs have to plan on playing 100+ games next year. You just can't rely on only 4 D's and expect to win. The Devils need 5 reliable D's if they want to go for another Cup. The 6th spot can be filled by one of the rookies, but two rookies on a pair is a dissaster waiting to happen. Unless one of them pulls a Jackman or Rafalski Sundstrom - I'd absolutely LOVE for that to happen, but let's be realistic here. IMO there's about a 95% chance that won't happen. How often do Defensemen win the Calder? I think the last one to do it before Jackman was Borque, and that was 20 years ago. The fact is rookie Defensemen are usually liabilities. They make frequent mistakes that cost you goals. I remember, for example, Chris Pronger being HORRIBLE his first few seasons. The Devils, as Stanley Cup Champions, just cannot afford a 3rd D pair of two rookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Sundstrom - The 3rd D pair is actually VERY important. Like Tri said, the Devs have to plan on playing 100+ games next year. You just can't rely on only 4 D's and expect to win. The Devils need 5 reliable D's if they want to go for another Cup. The 6th spot can be filled by one of the rookies, but two rookies on a pair is a dissaster waiting to happen. Unless one of them pulls a Jackman or Rafalski Sundstrom - I'd absolutely LOVE for that to happen, but let's be realistic here. IMO there's about a 95% chance that won't happen. How often do Defensemen win the Calder? I think the last one to do it before Jackman was Borque, and that was 20 years ago. The fact is rookie Defensemen are usually liabilities. They make frequent mistakes that cost you goals. I remember, for example, Chris Pronger being HORRIBLE his first few seasons. The Devils, as Stanley Cup Champions, just cannot afford a 3rd D pair of two rookies. Hrm... what? you quote me and start the message with Sundstrom haha, that's ok . edit: and as for puting up a calder winning season, never said anything about that, and that is not needed, we "only" need one of these guys to take a regular spot and play like a top 4 (5) defenceman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tretyak 20 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Oops, Sorry Swede. BTW, wasn't Sundstrom (the player) Swedish? I wasn't really talking about a Calder winning season either, really, since a kid can have an incredible rookie season like Rafi and not win it. My point is that having a rookie D step in and play solid, reliable hockey all season is rare. The Devils may get one guy to do it, or may get that from two or three rookies combined (i.e. Hale plays 30 good games, Kadeykin plays 30, and DeMarchi or Uchevatov play 20). The problem, though, is that the Devs only have 4 veteran D's on the roster right now. Assuming Albelin retires, that means Lou needs to either sign another vet or start the season with THREE rookies in his 7-man D corp. Not a pleasant thought. The best solution IMO would be to re-sign both Tivo and Smehlik to reasonable contracts (only 1 yr for Smehlik). Smehlik could be used as a 7th D, and one of the rookies put on the 3rd pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 The fact is rookie Defensemen are usually liabilities. They make frequent mistakes that cost you goals. I remember, for example, Chris Pronger being HORRIBLE his first few seasons. The Devils, as Stanley Cup Champions, just cannot afford a 3rd D pair of two rookies. That's what the trade deadline is for. Use your top 4 in vital situations, and lean heavily on your 3rd pairing rookies when you have 2 goal leads, back to back games against weaker teams, and other low pressure situations. Then in early march deal for an unspectacular UFA bound defenseman from a noncompetitive team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 12, 2003 Author Share Posted July 12, 2003 But that's very hit or miss, Blackjack. Of the defensemen Lou has acquired at the deadline, how many of them have been successes? Smehlik, O'Donnell, Malakhov, Housley, Ellett? I think just about all of these guys became everyone's least favorite defenseman. None of them was as good as they were in their old city. No, I'd much, much rather have a third pairing that we can use. If they think Giroux can handle it, fine, but not a third pairing of Hale and DeMarchi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tretyak 20 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 I agree with Tri here, Blackjack. Although I personally think the Malakhov trade worked quite well for the Devils and I don't think the Smehlik trade was a bad one, the others were pretty much stinkers. The other thing I will add is that a deadline trade means losing assets. Signing Tivo would only require cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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