Marty at The Garden

[The Facepainter]

Supposedly there was a deflection off of some Devil player on the Second goal. It did look like Brodeur had no idea where the puck went. He made about three big saves, and it probably should have been enough for the Devils to get the win, but lundquist was a combination of lucky and really good last night. Plus Brodeur has won 2 of 3 games in the Garden. He hasn't been doing all that bad there. Its time for Marty to win the next two in the Rock.

Edited February 7, 2010 by The Facepainter

[theamazingtiny]

The whole team looks frustrated and unconfident as of late.

[Lateralous]

I saw the replay of the second goal this morning sober while watching On the Fly and I don't think there is anything he could have done about that one. The shot appeared to be going to his blocker side and deflected off of the inside leg of the defender and went top glove. Not much you can do about that. The more troubling sign to me was that he came close to giving up those no angle goals at his feet a few time last night. Those are the goals that seem to start going in on him once the pressure of the playoffs begin. Still, I think last night was all about the defense and their horrible turnovers.

[LucifersDog]

Interesting discussion I agree with many of the points made in the discussion. Marty "talk the talk" but doesn't "walk the walk" he is all about himself, BTW most goalie are, he is interested in awards, records and trophies all for himself, then comes the Devils. If I were deciding who is in goal for the Canadian team and watching the Devils slump I wouldn't pick Marty, but then he wants a GOLD for himself so he will stay focused in the Olympics.

I feel after the Olympics we will see a Brodeur that is burnt out, he's almost there now. Can and does he stay focused for a full 60 minutes today? I don't think so he is letting one or two goals a game that shouldn't happen if you are the best goalie ever.

[MadDog2020]

This is a good arguement here, but here's my take on this: a lot of the goals that Marty lets in against this team LOOK bad, but there's usually more to most of them. There's always a deflection or someone screening him or one of our defensman totally screwing up. As for Henrik, he gets lit up like a christmas tree against every other team in this league, but his pads are like Mount Everest when we play him and he always kicks it into another gear as well. My problem is that we don't light him up because we don't make life miserable for him. All of our glorious chances he had a clear view of them. Every great save he pretty much had nobody in his face, nobody screening him, nothing, just a clear view of the puck.

Oh, and if Joe Michelletti really did say his save on Mottau was the best save by any goaltender in any game this season, that guy should be fired for saying something dumber than anything that's ever come out of Chico's mouth.

Right the fvck on Skeet, right the fvck on. This team needs to go to the net more, particularly against the Queen. He saw every shot- not too hard to stop every shot when you see every shot too. It's games like last night where we really miss Clarkson.

[Devil Dan 56]

PhillyDevils makes a great point. Marty doesn't seem to have a second gear. He goes all out all season, and there's no new level for him to hit, except for cases where he has something to prove (Game 5 2009 and Games 5 and 6 in the 2000 finals.) I agree that he may need to be sat for Luongo in the Olympics to be motivated in the playoffs. Or maybe the thought that they have a real shot to go for it will be enough.

[DinoCosta]

As much as I love Marty I'm always thinking about his selfishness in regard to the having to play whenever he wants to play. I would imagine that this is some sort of a trade off, for signing with the club, being loyal and not testing the FA waters...it almost seems to be like the Devils saying; "and oh yeah, you may always make the call on playing or not"...no other Goaltender in the league has this kind of personal latitude. Every year this time for the past few seasons, he seems sluggish, and so does the entire team really. I mean lets be honset now, you have to pick one goaltender in the NHL to win a playoff series in front of any kind of a system...how many are picking Marty? I'm not. Using the Devils schedule as his own sort of personal day planner is another element I consider when I state he'd have minimum 100 less wins in his career rigth now if he played anywhere else but Jersey.

[DevilNurn]

If Marty played the Rangers the same way that he played the Canadiens, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Sickman]

I think the fact that the Devils lost to the big bad Rangers (sarcasm) is getting to some of your heads. How about we use a little common sense here and just assume for even one second that the Devils possibly feel that they give themselves the best opportunity to win with Brodeur in net? I'd like to think Lou and the coaching staff would have a better idea to do what is right for the team then an internet forum but that is just me I guess.

For all of you complaining about how poor Marty plays against the Rangers, try taking a look at his numbers against them since the lockout. I put 07-08 in bold because the Rangers trounced the Devils that year. I don't know but it looks to me that his numbers against them in 08 would translate into a Vezina worthy season over the course of the year. Ah that is right, they actually did. In fact, I see sub 2.00 GAA's all over the place and pretty good save percentages. Maybe the problem is a little bit more then goaltending? Statistically his worst season against them is last year but he was injured pretty much the entire year so its not typical of his work against them.

05 - 06: 4 2 0 12 1.99 174 162 .931 1 0

06 - 07: 5 2 1 15 1.82 236 221 .936 0 1

07 - 08: 1 4 3 16 1.96 206 190 .922 1 0

08 - 09: 0 2 0 6 3.04 60 54 .900 1 0

09 - 10: 2 2 0 8 1.99 133 125 .940 0 1

This is not even so much to defend Marty because there is no reason to. It really just shows how people have a tendency to make more of these losses against the Rangers then they really are. Its pretty clear Marty is doing a good job against them. Perhaps scoring might have been an issue? Just a thought. Yes Lundqvist has played pretty well against the Devils but its not like Brodeur is not giving his team a chance in these games.

[LucifersDog]

Peyton Manning just said "he does chase statistical records." Guess who does? As someone posted earlier if it's a big important game would you take Marty in goal given a choice? I wouldn't not the way he has been playing the past few years.

[Devil Dan 56]

Peyton Manning just said "he does chase statistical records." Guess who does? As someone posted earlier if it's a big important game would you take Marty in goal given a choice? I wouldn't not the way he has been playing the past few years.

Marty could run 16 straight shutouts in the playoffs and you wouldn't take him. You just don't like Marty.

[ThreeCups]

Marty could run 16 straight shutouts in the playoffs and you wouldn't take him. You just don't like Marty.

I think that is an understatement. His Brodeur hatred is well documented. So do you want Danis to be the starter LD?

[LucifersDog]

Marty could run 16 straight shutouts in the playoffs and you wouldn't take him. You just don't like Marty.

I don't like Brodeur but I also think he isn't as good as his numbers show but he is a top 5 NHL goalie just not the best ever.

[LucifersDog]

I think that is an understatement. His Brodeur hatred is well documented. So do you want Danis to be the starter LD?

As of now that would be our only other choice so I would say no to Danis as the full time starter but I would like more Danis than a constant Brodeur who doesn't or can't stay focus for a full 60 minutes and therefore put more pressure on a weaken (injuries but got somewhat better with Kovy) offense and a not so great (injuries) defense. Marty just interested in chasing and building his personal records, like most games played in a season or seasons regardless of who wins.

[Devil Dan 56]

I don't like Brodeur but I also think he isn't as good as his numbers show but he is a top 5 NHL goalie just not the best ever.

Top 5 yes, considering he is top 3 all time, up there with Roy and Hasek.

The best in the league right now (this season)? You could argue Miller, Vokoun, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, Nabokov, Luongo at times. If Miller plays out the rest of the season like he has so far, he is a lock for the Vezina. Of those, only one has one it all in the past.

If we are talking one big game over the last few years, Ward tends to come up at big times. Fleury the last 2 years has been huge come playoff time. But even in losing, Brodeur has put up good playoff numbers. I don't see why anyone, especially a Devils fan, could so easily discount him. Without Brodeur, this team might be in Nashville.

[DinoCosta]

Top 5 yes, considering he is top 3 all time, up there with Roy and Hasek.

The best in the league right now (this season)? You could argue Miller, Vokoun, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, Nabokov, Luongo at times. If Miller plays out the rest of the season like he has so far, he is a lock for the Vezina. Of those, only one has one it all in the past.

If we are talking one big game over the last few years, Ward tends to come up at big times. Fleury the last 2 years has been huge come playoff time. But even in losing, Brodeur has put up good playoff numbers. I don't see why anyone, especially a Devils fan, could so easily discount him. Without Brodeur, this team might be in Nashville.

Dan I understand what you're saying...I've been a die hard Devils fan since they first dropped the puck...I'm as loyal a Devils dog as there is...with all that said, in all objectivity, I don't feel that Marty has been playing at an elite level for a few years now. This may sound incredible given the fact that he's got all the records and he has an iconic status attached to his name. But I truly believe that he is now a good, not a great goaltender currently...when Clemmy stepped in for Marty the Devils kept pace---thrived even. As much as I love Marty and have enjoyed his career, I cannot state that I'm not looking forward to the Devils franchise post Brodeur...because I am. Marty can still show glimpses of his former greatness, but I have to agree with those who feel he puts himself ahead of the team, chases records, and with 3 cups to his credit, is driven by other factors at this juncture of his career.

Edited February 9, 2010 by DinoCosta

[ThreeCups]

Dan I understand what you're saying...I've been a die hard Devils fan since they first dropped the puck...I'm as loyal a Devils dog as there is...with all that said, in all objectivity, I don't feel that Marty has been playing at an elite level for a few years now. This may sound incredible given the fact that he's got all the records and he has an iconic status attached to his name. But I truly believe that he is now a good, not a great goaltender currently...when Clemmy stepped in for Marty the Devils kept pace---thrived even. As much as I love Marty and have enjoyed his career, I cannot state that I'm not looking forward to the Devils franchise post Brodeur...because I am. Marty can still show glimpses of his former greatness, but I have to agree with those who feel he puts himself ahead of the team, chases records, and with 3 cups to his credit, is driven by other factors at this juncture of his career.

Do you really believe his primary goal is not Cup #4?

[DinoCosta]

Do you really believe his primary goal is not Cup #4?

As much as I hate to admit it, yes, I do believe that he's more interested in himself at this point than Cups...I don't like that admission, but I would be lying to you if I said I felt otherwise. Of course this is a subjective view point - and one that I would naturally not expect you - or someone else to agree with.

On the flip side, there is now way that I'm alone with this sort of thinking.

Edited February 10, 2010 by DinoCosta

[Risky]

That's ridiculous. Cup #4 would cement his "greatest of all time" argument and put him in with only a few elite goaltenders who can make a similar claim (Roy, Fuhr, Plante). Cup #4 is as much a personal milestone as it is a team one. Regardless of the "why" of his motivations, Cup #4 is certainly the most important milestone for him to reach now.

[MadDog2020]

That's ridiculous. Cup #4 would cement his "greatest of all time" argument and put him in with only a few elite goaltenders who can make a similar claim (Roy, Fuhr, Plante). Cup #4 is as much a personal milestone as it is a team one. Regardless of the "why" of his motivations, Cup #4 is certainly the most important milestone for him to reach now.

Not to mention if he DOESN'T win Cup #4, he'll have to hear "Marty was great, but he never won a Cup without Stevens, Daneyko, and Niedermayer" until the day he dies. That's not something I can imagine Marty being okay with. I certainly hope he isn't okay with it, that's for sure.

[95Crash]

I think the fact that the Devils lost to the big bad Rangers (sarcasm) is getting to some of your heads. How about we use a little common sense here and just assume for even one second that the Devils possibly feel that they give themselves the best opportunity to win with Brodeur in net? I'd like to think Lou and the coaching staff would have a better idea to do what is right for the team then an internet forum but that is just me I guess.

For all of you complaining about how poor Marty plays against the Rangers, try taking a look at his numbers against them since the lockout. I put 07-08 in bold because the Rangers trounced the Devils that year. I don't know but it looks to me that his numbers against them in 08 would translate into a Vezina worthy season over the course of the year. Ah that is right, they actually did. In fact, I see sub 2.00 GAA's all over the place and pretty good save percentages. Maybe the problem is a little bit more then goaltending? Statistically his worst season against them is last year but he was injured pretty much the entire year so its not typical of his work against them.

05 - 06: 4 2 0 12 1.99 174 162 .931 1 0

06 - 07: 5 2 1 15 1.82 236 221 .936 0 1

07 - 08: 1 4 3 16 1.96 206 190 .922 1 0

08 - 09: 0 2 0 6 3.04 60 54 .900 1 0

09 - 10: 2 2 0 8 1.99 133 125 .940 0 1

This is not even so much to defend Marty because there is no reason to. It really just shows how people have a tendency to make more of these losses against the Rangers then they really are. Its pretty clear Marty is doing a good job against them. Perhaps scoring might have been an issue? Just a thought. Yes Lundqvist has played pretty well against the Devils but its not like Brodeur is not giving his team a chance in these games.

Thank you for taking the time to put together that post.

I've been bothered by the Devils' losses to the Rangers the last few years as much as everyone else. But those numbers show that the true blame for those losses is a result of the lack of offense moreso than subpar goaltending.

Remember when the Devils had that ridiculously long winning streak versus the Rangers? It seems like that was ages ago.

Personally, I think that, as far as this rivalry goes, this team desperately needs another player like Ken Daneyko, who was so proud to be a Devil and so aware of how important it is to the franchise to beat the Rangers.

[ThreeCups]

As much as I hate to admit it, yes, I do believe that he's more interested in himself at this point than Cups...I don't like that admission, but I would be lying to you if I said I felt otherwise. Of course this is a subjective view point - and one that I would naturally not expect you - or someone else to agree with.

On the flip side, there is now way that I'm alone with this sort of thinking.

Other than Cup #4, what else is there left for him to do personally? He already has the wins and shutouts records....

That's ridiculous. Cup #4 would cement his "greatest of all time" argument and put him in with only a few elite goaltenders who can make a similar claim (Roy, Fuhr, Plante). Cup #4 is as much a personal milestone as it is a team one. Regardless of the "why" of his motivations, Cup #4 is certainly the most important milestone for him to reach now.

My thoughts exactly. There is nothing left for him to do BUT win that 4th Cup....

Not to mention if he DOESN'T win Cup #4, he'll have to hear "Marty was great, but he never won a Cup without Stevens, Daneyko, and Niedermayer" until the day he dies. That's not something I can imagine Marty being okay with. I certainly hope he isn't okay with it, that's for sure.

Marty knows the detractors will definitely bring that point up, so I am sure he is very motivated to get the 4th without the legendary defense in front of him....

[DinoCosta]

Other than Cup #4, what else is there left for him to do personally? He already has the wins and shutouts records....

My thoughts exactly. There is nothing left for him to do BUT win that 4th Cup....

Marty knows the detractors will definitely bring that point up, so I am sure he is very motivated to get the 4th without the legendary defense in front of him....

The times that Marty can possess the kind of ability to stand on his head and steal games all on his own have become fewer and fewer with each passing season - including this one.

I realize that in some quarters my thoughts are considered to be sacrilege almost...yes, I feel the Devils can win another Cup with Marty in net, however - my feeling that he puts self above team has been confirmed by at least one Devil I have spoken with...and I'd feel a heck of a lot better about not only Marty winning games, but the Devils winning another Stanley Cup, with Marty realizing that fewer games in the Fall and Winter, would translate into a fresher goaltender in the Spring & Summer.

I hate the fact that I get the distinct impression, that over the last few seasons, Marty has not only placed self above team, but his conditioning leaves a lot to be desired as well.

Yes, Cup # 4 would be another notch in his belt, yes playing and winning a cup without an upper echelon defensive team in front of him would be more than satisfying (this admission by others works into my view that on another team in another system and without the opportunity to play whenever he wants to, Marty would have 100 less wins on his resume right now), but with 3 already in tow, I cannot get away from the feeling based upon what I see - that Marty isn't concerned as much about team as he is about Marty.

[MadDog2020]

The times that Marty can possess the kind of ability to stand on his head and steal games all on his own have become fewer and fewer with each passing season - including this one.

I realize that in some quarters my thoughts are considered to be sacrilege almost...yes, I feel the Devils can win another Cup with Marty in net, however - my feeling that he puts self above team has been confirmed by at least one Devil I have spoken with...and I'd feel a heck of a lot better about not only Marty winning games, but the Devils winning another Stanley Cup, with Marty realizing that fewer games in the Fall and Winter, would translate into a fresher goaltender in the Spring & Summer.

I hate the fact that I get the distinct impression, that over the last few seasons, Marty has not only placed self above team, but his conditioning leaves a lot to be desired as well.

Yes, Cup # 4 would be another notch in his belt, yes playing and winning a cup without an upper echelon defensive team in front of him would be more than satisfying (this admission by others works into my view that on another team in another system and without the opportunity to play whenever he wants to, Marty would have 100 less wins on his resume right now), but with 3 already in tow, I cannot get away from the feeling based upon what I see - that Marty isn't concerned as much about team as he is about Marty.

Ya know what Dino, if he's satisfied with only the 3 Cups, the last one coming 7 years ago now, it tells me he isn't the competitor we all think he is. I wouldn't be satisfied winning my last Cup 10 years before I retired. If he has any respect for himself and his legacy, he cares about the 4th Cup more than life itself. You would think he'd be pushed by the fact that the man he grew up idolizing and who's wins record he broke has 4 Cups, one at his expense. That is also the same man he will be compared to for the rest of his life. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, because none of us are in Marty's head. But you would think all of these things- plus personal and professional pride- would drive him to want to win that 4th Cup.

Edited February 10, 2010 by MadDog2020

[Neutral Zone Trap]

The times that Marty can possess the kind of ability to stand on his head and steal games all on his own have become fewer and fewer with each passing season - including this one.

I realize that in some quarters my thoughts are considered to be sacrilege almost...yes, I feel the Devils can win another Cup with Marty in net, however - my feeling that he puts self above team has been confirmed by at least one Devil I have spoken with...and I'd feel a heck of a lot better about not only Marty winning games, but the Devils winning another Stanley Cup, with Marty realizing that fewer games in the Fall and Winter, would translate into a fresher goaltender in the Spring & Summer.

I hate the fact that I get the distinct impression, that over the last few seasons, Marty has not only placed self above team, but his conditioning leaves a lot to be desired as well.

Yes, Cup # 4 would be another notch in his belt, yes playing and winning a cup without an upper echelon defensive team in front of him would be more than satisfying (this admission by others works into my view that on another team in another system and without the opportunity to play whenever he wants to, Marty would have 100 less wins on his resume right now), but with 3 already in tow, I cannot get away from the feeling based upon what I see - that Marty isn't concerned as much about team as he is about Marty.

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