World Cup of Hockey

[devlman]

Sounds like a complete gimmick. I would have no interest. Banding together smaller European nations best players into one team is not only disrespectful it's damaging to the progression of hockey in those countries.

International tournaments are one of the few times that players playing in Europe get to test themselves against the best of the best. Programmes and teams don't progress if you don't get to compete against the best.

Look at the performances in the Olympics recently. Latvia played out of their minds, they scared the sh!t out of Canada in the playoff round. Slovenia pushed teams all the way and the Swiss played some excellent defensive hockey until they eventually ran out of steam.

That's how you build interest in a sport globally in smaller markets.

Not picking a few players from here and there and throwing them out as the European all stars. Who is going to give a flying f*ck about that team?

Agreed with every word.

I don't care who cares about that team. Latvia, Slovenia, and Switzerland are never going to compete with Canada and the US at hockey. Sure, they can win a game off one of them 1 out of 10 times. But the hockey is going to be miserable to watch for anyone neutral - it's going to be the big power dominating the game 95% of the time and the smaller side is just going to try to limit the huge chances. I want to see world-class players playing hockey at a high level without all sorts of systems designed to slow them down, and when you get teams like Switzerland in there where that's their only chance of winning is playing tremendously passive and hoping their goalie can stop 40 shots, I'm not interested in that. The Olympics will still exist and if the NHL pulls out - these countries will do better in the Olympics anyway, so they'll have that tournament. This is about best on best hockey and getting together all the world's best players for a tournament. It's less about nationalism than the Olympics. I would watch just about any of these games - maybe I wouldn't watch Czech Republic-Finland or Sweden-Czech Republic. But I won't watch 50% of Olympic hockey.

Actually, for the neutral fan, a Canada-Latvia game would be of interest because of all the goals and scoring chances you're likely to see.

[Triumph]

Agreed with every word.

Actually, for the neutral fan, a Canada-Latvia game would be of interest because of all the goals and scoring chances you're likely to see.

 

Yeah, because who doesn't love a total one-sided blowout?  That's why I watch sports - for the result to almost never be in doubt.  I always watch the first round of tennis Grand Slams to see just how badly Federer and Nadal can smash their competition, but I don't bother with the final round.   Women's Olympic hockey - forget Canada-US, I like Canada going up against countries that have 50 women who play hockey.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

it is going to be the highest level hockey. It's going to be a pure skill tournament. I mean, great, hockey's growing in Slovenia. Will Slovenia become a player on the world stage? Of course not - it's a country of 2 million people. At best they can hope to fight it out with the smaller countries in tournaments like the World Championships and the Olympics and maybe sneak into an elimination round game. In addition, there's such a thing as growing the game in countries like the US where hockey penetration is less than total.

Hockey in the NHL and Olympics is bogged down by system play. I was watching the WJCs this year and thinking why can't we ever see NHL players playing like this? Now we will.

Slovenia certainly won't if it can't compete in the best competitions. Look at other niche sports like rugby. New Zealand has a population of around 4 million people. Yet they are near unbeatable on a world stage and have frightening depth.

If that is all the NHL wants to do and grow the sport there then fine. But trying to pass it off as a world cup isn't overly helpful to the value of the tournament.

If anything, again using the rugby example,they should mirror the format of popular Rugby tournaments like the 6 nations. England, France , Ireland , Wales , Scotland and Italy in a mini league. Everyone plays everyone. There is no qualifying, no facial best of Europe teams.

The good thing about this tournament is that it allows for additions. Italy were only a recent addition after their performance in internationals picked up.

If for example two years down the line another nation has developed to a high enough standard through international and Olympic play you can add them and make it 7.

What is being proposed currently comes across as a pure money grab under the banner of a world cup.

[Triumph]

Slovenia certainly won't if it can't compete in the best competitions. Look at other niche sports like rugby. New Zealand has a population of around 4 million people. Yet they are near unbeatable on a world stage and have frightening depth.

 

Rugby in New Zealand according to wikipedia 'dates back to 1870 and has close ties with New Zealand culture'.  So sure, New Zealand competes at rugby because it's had a century and a half to build up a rugby culture at the same time that other countries were developing an international sporting culture.  Slovenia can't have that with hockey - the other nations just have way too great a headstart, not only are they much larger, but they have devoted millions upon millions of dollars to developing hockey players.  In addition, rugby seems like an inexpensive sport to play (I could be wrong about this) - hockey is exceptionally expensive as sports go.

 

If that is all the NHL wants to do and grow the sport there then fine. But trying to pass it off as a world cup isn't overly helpful to the value of the tournament.

 

This tournament had the title of World Cup before.  The MLB championship is the World Series.  If all you're taking issue with is the name, fine.  Call it whatever you want.

If for example two years down the line another nation has developed to a high enough standard through international and Olympic play you can add them and make it 7.

 

I am sure that they could ditch the Young Stars team for a 7th nation if one emerged.  Too bad there's only two other international hockey competitions (all ages, men) to determine who's good at the sport.  

What is being proposed currently comes across as a pure money grab under the banner of a world cup.

 

It's going to be a lot of really fun hockey under the banner of a World Cup, so sure. 

[Matteau#32]

At first, I loved the idea of bringing back the World Cup in lieu of sending players to the Olympics.  However, this idea of a Team Europe and Young Guns team is dumb, imo.  Would rather see Slovakia and Switzerland be given spots.  

Edited January 20, 2015 by Matteau#32

[Triumph]

At first, I loved the idea of bringing back the World Cup in lieu of sending players to the Olympics.  However, this idea of a Team Europe and Young Guns team is dumb, imo.  Would rather see Slovakia and Switzerland be given spots.  

 

Slovakia is done as a world power once Chara and Hossa are gone, and that won't be long.  The other major issue is that this tournament will run at the same time that the European leagues start up, so players won't be available from the KHL and Swiss leagues and what not - or at least, there's no reason for those teams to let them go to play in this tournament.  There aren't 23 Slovakian players in the NHL, and even if there are there won't be in 6 years, so why put that team in?  

Edited January 20, 2015 by Triumph

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Slovakia is done as a world power once Chara and Hossa are gone, and that won't be long. The other major issue is that this tournament will run at the same time that the European leagues start up, so players won't be available from the KHL and Swiss leagues and what not - or at least, there's no reason for those teams to let them go to play in this tournament. There aren't 23 Slovakian players in the NHL, and even if there are there won't be in 6 years, so why put that team in?

Then don't, go with 6 proper teams. At least the tournament will have some integrity.

[Matteau#32]

Slovakia is done as a world power once Chara and Hossa are gone, and that won't be long.  The other major issue is that this tournament will run at the same time that the European leagues start up, so players won't be available from the KHL and Swiss leagues and what not - or at least, there's no reason for those teams to let them go to play in this tournament.  There aren't 23 Slovakian players in the NHL, and even if there are there won't be in 6 years, so why put that team in?  

Then, for 2020, you revisit the 8 teams.  If Denmark shows marked improvement and Slovakia falls off, then replace Slovakia.  Not saying it should be those 8 set in stone. Just for the first one.  What they are doing is the same as the NHL changing the play-offs to top-3 in the division and then the 4th team will be an all-star team of the other 5.  Sure, it makes sure the best players will all be in the play-offs, but how much will fans of those 5 teams care?

Their next idea will be to add a Team Ireland, were all players who are of Irish descent are eligible to play.

[Triumph]

Then don't, go with 6 proper teams. At least the tournament will have some integrity.

 

A 6 team tournament is more difficult to manage - I'm not even sure how you would do a 6 team tournament.  The Six Nations appears to be everyone plays everyone, winner is whoever does the best over those games.  Well, no American sport uses that format besides college football kind of and everyone hated that, so the idea of introducing that format into North America is crazy.  8 teams on the other hand is very simple.

 

Then, for 2020, you revisit the 8 teams.  If Denmark shows marked improvement and Slovakia falls off, then replace Slovakia.  Not saying it should be those 8 set in stone. Just for the first one.  What they are doing is the same as the NHL changing the play-offs to top-3 in the division and then the 4th team will be an all-star team of the other 5.  Sure, it makes sure the best players will all be in the play-offs, but how much will fans of those 5 teams care?

Their next idea will be to add a Team Ireland, were all players who are of Irish descent are eligible to play.

 

These teams from other nations simply cannot compete with the 6 teams.  They can't.  Sure, they can fluke out a win, like the US did in 1980, because it's hockey - the puck bounces a lot.  But over the long run these countries will get stomped.  Name the 5 best Danish players in the world.  Again, you didn't even address my point which is that this tournament happens in September before training camp when European leagues have already begun play and they have 0 incentive to let anyone go play in this thing.

[thefiestygoat]

I'm still not sure how I feel about this. My initial reaction was that I hated the all-star teams but I understood why they are there. Rather than have two all-star teams I would love to see a separate Quebec team - that would be awesome.

It's too bad there aren't a lot of hockey players from Oregon and Washington, I'd love to see a Cascadia team with similar uniforms to their proposed soccer team.

Anyway, I love hockey so I'll be watching this no matter what the format is.

[Matteau#32]

A 6 team tournament is more difficult to manage - I'm not even sure how you would do a 6 team tournament.  The Six Nations appears to be everyone plays everyone, winner is whoever does the best over those games.  Well, no American sport uses that format besides college football kind of and everyone hated that, so the idea of introducing that format into North America is crazy.  8 teams on the other hand is very simple.

 

 

These teams from other nations simply cannot compete with the 6 teams.  They can't.  Sure, they can fluke out a win, like the US did in 1980, because it's hockey - the puck bounces a lot.  But over the long run these countries will get stomped.  Name the 5 best Danish players in the world.  Again, you didn't even address my point which is that this tournament happens in September before training camp when European leagues have already begun play and they have 0 incentive to let anyone go play in this thing.

Give those countries a small piece of the pie, and they will delay their seasons.  They take breaks all the time in Europe.  If they do not want to delay, they would release their players to play in these.  International stuff is very big in Europe.

 

As for a 6-team tourney. It could work.  Play each team once (or even twice), top-4 go on to the knock-out.  Could even do best of three for the semis and finals.

 

Secondly, even the Czech Repulblic is on the way down as a national power.  Their last Olympic team, many of their players were old and likely would not be still playing if the NHL went to the Olympics in 2018.  Pastrnak seems like he is going to be real good, but they do not have that many good young players.  I know the Nedved selection for Sochi was ridiculous, but the rest weren't much of a stretch.  Nedved owns a team in the Czech Extra Ligue, and from what I understand has donated a decent amount of money for youth programs and the selection was more of a thank you and a respect thing.

[Triumph]

Give those countries a small piece of the pie, and they will delay their seasons.  They take breaks all the time in Europe.  If they do not want to delay, they would release their players to play in these.  International stuff is very big in Europe.

 

As for a 6-team tourney. It could work.  Play each team once (or even twice), top-4 go on to the knock-out.  Could even do best of three for the semis and finals.

 

Secondly, even the Czech Repulblic is on the way down as a national power.  Their last Olympic team, many of their players were old and likely would not be still playing if the NHL went to the Olympics in 2018.  Pastrnak seems like he is going to be real good, but they do not have that many good young players.  I know the Nedved selection for Sochi was ridiculous, but the rest weren't much of a stretch.  Nedved owns a team in the Czech Extra Ligue, and from what I understand has donated a decent amount of money for youth programs and the selection was more of a thank you and a respect thing.

 

Again, why?  They have absolutely no draw and no chance.  'Stop your season to play in this tournament where you have no chance'.  Does that make any sense?  And why should they get an equal piece of the pie for providing absolutely no draw?  No one cares about Switzerland, relatively.  

 

A 6 team tourney is sh!t.  Why bother having a first round if 4 of 6 teams make it in?  There's no tension at all there if your team wins their first game.  Your version of the tournament takes a month.

 

Yes, the Czech Republic is on the way down, no question, but they're getting a little better lately and they've still got the guys to make it work.

[Matteau#32]

World Jrs has 10 with 8 going to the knock-out.  Guess that is a waste?  Switzerland?  It would get exposure for their players and they have held their own even in games they lost.  Tell Russia they wouldn't have a chance by sending guys like Radulov, and Kovalchuck.  You give them a piece of the pie so they DO send their best players from their leagues.  Do you want this to be a best-on-best?  The Soccer World Cup has 32 teams.  More than half of which have absolutely no chance of winning it all.  Yet, they still all go.

 

Bottom line, by having a mixed team and a "young guns" team, it turns this into an exhibition and not something that is going to be taken seriously.  Might as well just name 8 captains and have them draft teams.  Going to make a farce of the tourney, so that Kopitar can play.  Ridiculous.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Matteau#32

[Triumph]

World Jrs has 10 with 8 going to the knock-out.  Guess that is a waste?  Switzerland?  It would get exposure for their players and they have held their own even in games they lost.  Tell Russia they wouldn't have a chance by sending guys like Radulov, and Kovalchuck.  You give them a piece of the pie so they DO send their best players from their leagues.  Do you want this to be a best-on-best?  The Soccer World Cup has 32 teams.  More than half of which have absolutely no chance of winning it all.  Yet, they still all go.

 

Bottom line, by having a mixed team and a "young guns" team, it turns this into an exhibition and not something that is going to be taken seriously.  Might as well just name 8 captains and have them draft teams.  Going to make a farce of the tourney, so that Kopitar can play.  Ridiculous.

 

It's funny, I didn't even know the format of the WJCs, and yes that is a waste.  Regardless, Switzerland is a TERRIBLE team to watch.  TERRIBLE.  They play with zero forecheck and hope their goalie can stop everything.  Yes, they compete because this works sometimes, but it's not good hockey to watch, generally.  And of course these countries still have the World Championships and the Olympics but keep repeating the same blather about exposure for their players, none of whom are world-class besides maybe Mark Streit a few years ago and their goaltenders.  Those world class players will still be playing in this tournament.

 

The KHL is never going to stop so that 6 guys from their country can play in this tournament.  Get fvcking real.  

 

The soccer World Cup is way, way different from the hockey one.  Comparing them is fatuous.  First of all, you have to qualify to make the Soccer World Cup, which is in itself a big deal and takes years of international matches.  Just making it to that level is a big deal in a lot of nations.  This tournament is never going to have long qualifying matches because A: who is going to watch them and B: when will they be held.  Second, that's the largest sporting event in the world, or at least very close to the Olympics in terms of world importance.  

 

I'm sorry you're going to deprive yourself of watching some great hockey.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Triumph

[Matteau#32]

It is not going to be great hockey.  It will be All-star games for a trophy.  Secondly, you can bet your ass Russia would send their best players.  Especially after the disaster at the Olympics.  They have a lot to prove and would want to show the KHL has top-level talent.  

 

IF run correctly, the hockey world cup would never match the soccer world cup as soccer is far more popular and played in more countries.  Hence why they can have a qualifying tourney.  How would they have a qualifying tourney for hockey?  Have the US play Mexico, Panama, and Brazil?  Give me a break.  I get it, you want to see Kopitar, but the whole concept is ridiculous. 

 

How ridiculous would it be for the NHL to change the play-off format to top-3 teams in the division get in, and then an all-star team of the bottom 5 gets the 4th seed?  Would make sure the best players are all in the play-offs.  This idea is just as bad.  

 

You do realize, if the Olympics did this, Crosby would not have played for Canada, he would have played for the NA Children's team, right?  Best player in the World can't play for his country.   Yes, the u23 team gets the player first.  Why?  No idea, but that is how it is set-up.  Now, suppose the final is Canada vs NA Children, and the NA Children are 75% Canadian.  Who do most Canadians root for?  

[Triumph]

It is not going to be great hockey.  It will be All-star games for a trophy.  Secondly, you can bet your ass Russia would send their best players.  Especially after the disaster at the Olympics.  They have a lot to prove and would want to show the KHL has top-level talent.  

 

IF run correctly, the hockey world cup would never match the soccer world cup as soccer is far more popular and played in more countries.  Hence why they can have a qualifying tourney.  How would they have a qualifying tourney for hockey?  Have the US play Mexico, Panama, and Brazil?  Give me a break.  I get it, you want to see Kopitar, but the whole concept is ridiculous. 

 

How ridiculous would it be for the NHL to change the play-off format to top-3 teams in the division get in, and then an all-star team of the bottom 5 gets the 4th seed?  Would make sure the best players are all in the play-offs.  This idea is just as bad.  

 

You do realize, if the Olympics did this, Crosby would not have played for Canada, he would have played for the NA Children's team, right?  Best player in the World can't play for his country.   Yes, the u23 team gets the player first.  Why?  No idea, but that is how it is set-up.  Now, suppose the final is Canada vs NA Children, and the NA Children are 75% Canadian.  Who do most Canadians root for?  

 

So wait - you believe that if this tournament got rid of the Best Of The Rest team and the U23 team and instead went with Slovakia and Switzerland that the KHL would push back their season 3 weeks in order to accommodate this tournament, a tournament in which almost no KHL players would be playing in anyway?  Okay.

 

This isn't the NHL playoffs.  Stop making dumb comparisons.  It's a short tournament.  If there were 8 hockey nations, those 8 hockey nations would get in.

 

Your final point - Friedman just said in his column today that they're not sure what the protocol is.  To me it doesn't make sense to have it automatic, but again, the odds of that kind of final are quite remote and obviously Canada roots for the team that is entirely from Canada.

[Matteau#32]

So wait - you believe that if this tournament got rid of the Best Of The Rest team and the U23 team and instead went with Slovakia and Switzerland that the KHL would push back their season 3 weeks in order to accommodate this tournament, a tournament in which almost no KHL players would be playing in anyway?  Okay.

 

This isn't the NHL playoffs.  Stop making dumb comparisons.  It's a short tournament.  If there were 8 hockey nations, those 8 hockey nations would get in.

 

Your final point - Friedman just said in his column today that they're not sure what the protocol is.  To me it doesn't make sense to have it automatic, but again, the odds of that kind of final are quite remote and obviously Canada roots for the team that is entirely from Canada.

You obviously missed where I said, they would still send their best players. Just like the CHL sends players to the World Jrs, but still continues the league.  

 

Might as well choose 8 captain, all of different nationalities and let them draft a team. Crosby, Parise, Lundqvist, Rask, Jagr, Chara, Ovechkin, Kopitar.  Obviously, I am not the only person who realizes this is no longer a World Cup, but instead a pre-season exhibition tournament:

 

rick westhead @rwesthead · 16h16 hours ago

NHL exec also tells me NHL & NHLPA have contemplated changing World Cup of Hockey name b/c of young guns and Euro teams. Centennial Cup?

[Matteau#32]

I'd much rather see a team of young stars that has almost no chance then see an international team that has almost no chance of winning getting swept off the ice constantly.  It's going to be bad enough if the Czech Republic isn't allowed to pair up with Slovakia.  The point of this tournament is both to be a competition but also to make money, and again, no one wants to see Germany play Canada.  The Olympic format sucks, people just accept it because it's the Olympics.  This to me makes every game watchable.

The Olympic format sucks?   Haha, too funny.  Do the people on this site really buy into your B.S. or do they just nod their head in agreement while laughing at you behind your back?  

Edited January 21, 2015 by Matteau#32

[Triumph]

The Olympic format sucks?   Haha, too funny.  Do the people on this site really buy into your B.S. or do they just nod their head in agreement while laughing at you behind your back?  

 

Can you make an argument for the Olympic format being good?  Did you watch every Olympic game?  If the Olympic tournament were divorced from the Olympics - same teams go - and you had no other responsbilities and a 32 hour day or whatever life situation that would enable you to watch every game, would you watch every game?  I know I sure wouldn't.  But again, keep the ad hominems coming and the brain turned off.

 

I'm not saying the Olympics should change their format.  I'm just saying that if you divorce that format from the Olympics and all its 'tradition', it's not going to be very compelling to watch a lot of second-rate hockey nations.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Triumph

[Matteau#32]

Every game? No.  Every game that I could?  Yes.  Did not just watch US, Canada, Sweden.  Do the same for the WJC.

 

My only complaint about the Olympics is the 3 pools and with the top-8 to the knock-out.  Would rather see two pools and the top-4 in each move on like the WJC does.  However, the went to the current format to cut down on the meaningless games, which I can understand.  

 

The whole premise of the World Cup was this was supposed to replace the Olympics as the premiere International Tournament.  Adding these 2 gimmick teams ruins it.  If they change the name like one Canadian journalist suggested is under consideration, that would be fine.  Still would not watch.  But this tournament will not be taken seriously by the fans or the media and eventually the players.  This is going to be a pre-season exhibition tourney. No different then if they chose 8 captains of different nationality and had them draft teams.  Could be fun, but really not many will care.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Matteau#32

[Triumph]

Every game? No.  Every game that I could?  Yes.  Did not just watch US, Canada, Sweden.  Do the same for the WJC.

 

My only complaint about the Olympics is the 3 pools and with the top-8 to the knock-out.  Would rather see two pools and the top-4 in each move on like the WJC does.  However, the went to the current format to cut down on the meaningless games, which I can understand.  

 

The whole premise of the World Cup was this was supposed to replace the Olympics as the premiere International Tournament.  Adding these 2 gimmick teams ruins it.  If they change the name like one Canadian journalist suggested is under consideration, that would be fine.  Still would not watch.  But this tournament will not be taken seriously by the fans or the media and eventually the players.  This is going to be a pre-season exhibition tourney. No different then if they chose 8 captains of different nationality and had them draft teams.  Could be fun, but really not many will care.

 

Hahaha.  Okay.  Have a good one.

[StormJosh]

At first I thought a young guns team and a rest of the world team was ridiculous, but a few seconds later I changed my mind.

 

Teams like Latvia and the like have absolutely no chance of winning. Next, aside from the most hardcore of hockey fans, who is going to want to watch games like Switzerland vs. Slovenia on a regular basis? Absolutely no one.

 

But...once you start loading up the 'rest of the world' team now suddenly Kopitar has some world class linemates and can have a legitimate chance to win some games playing real hockey. You can probably put together a roster from the rest of the world that can compete with the U.S. on a regular basis and might even be better than the Czechs. Now that's fun. Basically, the quality of the rosters for every game would be better than between any two NHL teams.

 

Whether or not you think its stupid to do this, you at least have to concede that the games would be far more interesting for casual fans. Also, as someone with a lot of exposure to people from these 'rest of the world' countries, they would absolutely get behind this team. As for the young guns, why the hell not. Seeing a team of U23 stars, whatever the protocol, is way better than watching Switzerland trap for 60 minutes hoping they can somehow get a 1-0 upset win.

 

If the goal of this tournament is to be traditional and nationalistic, this is a dumb idea. If the point is to put forward the most fun and best quality hockey, this idea is on point.

[Neb00rs]

Teams like Latvia and the like have absolutely no chance of winning. Next, aside from the most hardcore of hockey fans, who is going to want to watch games like Switzerland vs. Slovenia on a regular basis? Absolutely no one.

 

[...]

 

Whether or not you think its stupid to do this, you at least have to concede that the games would be far more interesting for casual fans. Also, as someone with a lot of exposure to people from these 'rest of the world' countries, they would absolutely get behind this team. As for the young guns, why the hell not. Seeing a team of U23 stars, whatever the protocol, is way better than watching Switzerland trap for 60 minutes hoping they can somehow get a 1-0 upset win.

 

I disagree. I love watching games between the small powers and I love watching the small powers try to beat the super powers through strategy and heart.

[capo]

The tournament would be better if it was all just straight up knock out from game 1 on.  That means every game is a playoff game.  It would get the weaker national team something to fight for from the start.  This new idea is pointless.

[Neb00rs]

So the under-23 team is going to be North America only. That's a slight improvement.

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=750156&navid=DL|NHL|home

 

The World Cup of Hockey is returning in September 2016 after a 12-year hiatus, the NHL and National Hockey League Players' Association announced in a press conference Saturday at Nationwide Arena.

 

The first World Cup competition since 2004 will feature national teams from the United States, Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland and the Czech Republic, and there will be two all-star teams, one made up of the top 23-and-under North American players and another featuring the top NHL players from the European countries that aren't already represented by their national teams, including Switzerland, Germany, Slovenia, Austria, Norway, Denmark and Latvia.

 

"A two-week, best-on-best international tournament that promises to be one of the best competitions in hockey history," Commissioner Gary Bettman said in describing the vision for the World Cup. "Everything we've been focused on has been to make this a great exciting tournament. A North American Youngstars team and a team of the best NHL European players from outside the ‘Big Four’ European countries enables us to include more of the very best players in the world who might otherwise have been left out of the competition."

 

The eight-team tournament will start on Sept. 17, 2016, and can run as late as Oct. 1. All games will be played at Air Canada Centre in Toronto.