The 2021 Offseason Thread

[DevsMan84]

Just now, SterioDesign said:

lol are you even trying to understand what we're all trying to tell you? You're clearly not. You're absolutely delusional on this

You made claims that we're 100% hindsight 20/20. People called you out on it and proved those claims wrong. Nobody is asking you to be happy that luck didn't go our way. Nobody is happy about that. I suspect there's not a single for who'd want Zacha over Rantanen. 

But to claim our scouts/management doesnt nail picks more often than not and nitpicking examples that ONLY YOU perceive as a mistake like picking Hischier over Makar or Zacha over Rantanen. You seem the only person here completely failing to understand hindsight 20/20. 

The bolded is extremely funny coming from you.

Saying that Nico was the 4th best player out of the top 5 in the 2017 draft is what started this.  Apparently people have a problem with that.  The second problem people have is that it was between Nolan and Nico only.  OK fine, if that is the case then they might as well pay me a six figure salary to be their head of scouting and I could pull up to each draft with a printout of the "experts" draft boards.

Colorado choosing Makar 4th is not going off the board.  He was even mentioned by one of the so-called "experts" that Shero was considering him and this board, along with the entire Devils fanbase, lost their collective sh!t over it.  Judging by that, he was considered in the conversation.  However, we still ended up with the 4th best out of the top 5 picks in 2017.

Sorry, I am still not happy that we drafted more players who have played NHL games rather than guys who actually make a difference (Bastian, Zetterlund, and Boqvist are not it).

[SterioDesign]

Just now, DevsMan84 said:

I am not the one arguing drafting Makar 1st overall was going "off the board."  According to the consensus here, it was and should only have been between Nico and Nolan and that's it.

I am not talking about Hughes in any shape or form here.

It's not only the consensus here lol it was the consensus through the entire hockey world

YOU go and find one article or draft projection or draft ranking prior to the 2017 draft with Makar in the top 2. We'll wait.

[Guadana]

19 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Who the hell is offended?  You pull this passive-aggressive crap all the time and blame it on the language barrier even though you speak English just fine.

You are very very overreacting. There are no passive or active agressive. cmon man. move on.

[SterioDesign]

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

The bolded is extremely funny coming from you.

Saying that Nico was the 4th best player out of the top 5 in the 2017 draft is what started this.  Apparently people have a problem with that.  The second problem people have is that it was between Nolan and Nico only.  OK fine, if that is the case then they might as well pay me a six figure salary to be their head of scouting and I could pull up to each draft with a printout of the "experts" draft boards.

Colorado choosing Makar 4th is not going off the board.  He was even mentioned by one of the so-called "experts" that Shero was considering him and this board, along with the entire Devils fanbase, lost their collective sh!t over it.  Judging by that, he was considered in the conversation.  However, we still ended up with the 4th best out of the top 5 picks in 2017.

Sorry, I am still not happy that we drafted more players who have played NHL games rather than guys who actually make a difference (Bastian, Zetterlund, and Boqvist are not it).

I agree Hischier is probably the 4th best player out of the top 5 now. But that's hindsight 20-20. We made the best possible decision with the information we had then. And the only decision was Hischier or Patrick. And we sure made the right decision there. Not a single mock draft i've ever seen had Makar in the top 2. Not ever.Makar fell to the Avs, they didn't do anything crazy, they picked the best player available. All these sites had Makar going #3 or lower. Even that for awhile Vilardi was in the top 4 for most sites.

Don't even pretend like you knew then that Makar was the better pick lolol not a single soul on earth will believe you.

https://thehockeywriters.com/6th-annual-nhl-mock-draft-2017-rounds-1-7/ #4

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2715912-nhl-mock-draft-2017-projecting-every-1st-round-pick #8

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jeff-mareks-2017-nhl-mock-draft/ #4

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/allen/2017/06/22/nhl-mock-draft-2017-hischier-patrick-lead-crop/420142001/ #3

https://www.nhl.com/news/mock-drafts-see-split-between-patrick-hischier/c-290070176 READ THIS ONE. There's even a quote talking about debating Nico and Nolan, saying he knows he'll get a good player no matter who he picks. 

https://www.lines.com/nhl/drafts/2017 #4

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Nico wasn’t projected to be the fourth-best player at the time he was drafted.  Makar wasn’t projected to be the top player either.  And according to the teams that had a chance to pick him first, second, or third, they didn’t have Makar in their Top 3.

If some choose to decide the “race” to be final at what’s barely the quarter-turn of their careers, so be it.  I can’t declare a winner this early.  Or assume that we’ve already seen Nico’s best.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[SterioDesign]

I'm not too confident Nico will end up in the top 2-3 best player of this draft. But that's a far cry from saying we fvcked things up with that draft. We were unlucky and that's it. Chances are if the Avs had first overall pick they would have picked Hischier or Patrick too.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, SterioDesign said:

I'm not too confident Nico will end up in the top 2-3 best player of this draft. But that's a far cry from saying we fvcked things up with that draft. We were unlucky and that's it. Chances are if the Avs had first overall pick they would have picked Hischier or Patrick too.

Agree with that last part.  If Nico winds up as the fourth-best (but can stay healthy and be a productive player who’s clearly valuable to his team), so be it.  Like I and others have pointed out before, it’s not like the guy who gets picked first (and is a guy that makes perfect sense to many) is 100% guaranteed to be the absolute best player of his draft.  See Daigle, Alexandre.  And he came flying out of the gates in the very early going.  

[SterioDesign]

13 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Agree with that last part.  If Nico winds up as the fourth-best (but can stay healthy and be a productive player who’s clearly valuable to his team), so be it.  Like I and others have pointed out before, it’s not like the guy who gets picked first (and is a guy that makes perfect sense to many) is 100% guaranteed to be the absolute best player of his draft.  See Daigle, Alexandre.  And he came flying out of the gates in the very early going.  

Yeah plus we knew the years we got the first overall picks that we were not getting like a true stud like McDavid or Matthews. I said before that we were pretty unlucky in our luck of winning the lottery.

I mean out of Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov, MacKinnon, Ekblad, McDavid, Matthews, Hischier, Dahlin, Hughes and Power. You have McDavid at the very top obviously... then it's already kind of debatable who'd you'd rank next. I feel Matthews, Tavares, Stamkos, Hall, Ekblad would be the second tier and that Dahlin, Hughes, Hischier, RNH, Power would be another one... then you got Yakupov.

And not many of those had a contest for the first overall other than Hischier and Power. I mean.. Hall had some Seguin consideration and Hughes got some kakko but not sure how legit that was

[mfitz804]

How about in 1986, when we picked Neil Fvcking Brady instead of future Hall of Famer Brian Leetch? That sh!t was fvcked. 

[MadDog2020]

17 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

How about in 1986, when we picked Neil Fvcking Brady instead of future Hall of Famer Brian Leetch? That sh!t was fvcked. 

What also sucked is who DID pick Leetch. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

What also sucked is who DID pick Leetch. 

Most memorable Devils pick from that season was Troy Crowder.

Isles took Fitz that year with the 17th pick.

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Most memorable Devils pick from that season was Troy Crowder.

Isles took Fitz that year with the 17th pick.

Passing on Adam Graves in the process.

Looking at the names in that draft, especially #101. Dean Sexsmith? That’s a porn star, not a hockey player!

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Passing on Adam Graves in the process.

Looking at the names in that draft, especially #101. Dean Sexsmith? That’s a porn star, not a hockey player!

Could’ve taken Dirk Diggler, Brock Landers or Chest Rockwell with that pick.  They would have nailed it.

[DevsMan84]

2 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

I agree Hischier is probably the 4th best player out of the top 5 now. But that's hindsight 20-20. We made the best possible decision with the information we had then. And the only decision was Hischier or Patrick. And we sure made the right decision there. Not a single mock draft i've ever seen had Makar in the top 2. Not ever.Makar fell to the Avs, they didn't do anything crazy, they picked the best player available. All these sites had Makar going #3 or lower. Even that for awhile Vilardi was in the top 4 for most sites.

Don't even pretend like you knew then that Makar was the better pick lolol not a single soul on earth will believe you.

https://thehockeywriters.com/6th-annual-nhl-mock-draft-2017-rounds-1-7/ #4

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2715912-nhl-mock-draft-2017-projecting-every-1st-round-pick #8

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jeff-mareks-2017-nhl-mock-draft/ #4

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/allen/2017/06/22/nhl-mock-draft-2017-hischier-patrick-lead-crop/420142001/ #3

https://www.nhl.com/news/mock-drafts-see-split-between-patrick-hischier/c-290070176 READ THIS ONE. There's even a quote talking about debating Nico and Nolan, saying he knows he'll get a good player no matter who he picks. 

https://www.lines.com/nhl/drafts/2017 #4

From what you posted here on that list, there were 6 names that were thrown around for Colorado to pick at #4.  Amazing they happened to pick the best player of the bunch they list.

Also, not by a wide margin, but more of those "experts" said Nolan should go first.

2 hours ago, Guadana said:

You are very very overreacting. There are no passive or active agressive. cmon man. move on.

LOL

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

I'm not too confident Nico will end up in the top 2-3 best player of this draft. But that's a far cry from saying we fvcked things up with that draft. We were unlucky and that's it. Chances are if the Avs had first overall pick they would have picked Hischier or Patrick too.

Where did I say we fvcked up in the draft?  You are making sh!t up again.  I never put Nico on the same level as say a Yakupov.

We don't know who the Avs would have picked with the number 1 overall.  If the roles were reversed we would probably be dunking on them now for choosing the 4th best player out of the top 5 as well.

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah plus we knew the years we got the first overall picks that we were not getting like a true stud like McDavid or Matthews. I said before that we were pretty unlucky in our luck of winning the lottery.

I mean out of Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov, MacKinnon, Ekblad, McDavid, Matthews, Hischier, Dahlin, Hughes and Power. You have McDavid at the very top obviously... then it's already kind of debatable who'd you'd rank next. I feel Matthews, Tavares, Stamkos, Hall, Ekblad would be the second tier and that Dahlin, Hughes, Hischier, RNH, Power would be another one... then you got Yakupov.

And not many of those had a contest for the first overall other than Hischier and Power. I mean.. Hall had some Seguin consideration and Hughes got some kakko but not sure how legit that was

I am glad that with the Hischier pick we got a player who is in the 3rd tier out of 4 you listed (fourth being occupied by literally 1 player nonetheless).  That makes me feel a whole lot better.

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Most memorable Devils pick from that season was Troy Crowder.

Crowder got us Randy McKay, so not all bad lol

Edited September 3, 2021 by MadDog2020

[SterioDesign]

2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am glad that with the Hischier pick we got a player who is in the 3rd tier out of 4 you listed (fourth being occupied by literally 1 player nonetheless).  That makes me feel a whole lot better.

Yeah well your feelings are irrelevant to anyone but you, so who cares?

The only difference is that almost everyone here understand that we made the best decisions based on all the informations scouts and management had. We did make the best decision cause it was really just Nico or Nolan. We're not talking about picking a guy 7 or 8 when its kind of a crapshoot.

Considering Makar turned into a stud, in hindsight was it the best decision? No. But thats simply not how you judge decisions.

So stop whining about us getting the 4th best player out of the top 5 like someone made a mistake or because another team knew better, it's not the case at all. It's badluck, that's it. It happens to literally every fvcking teams every year.

Edited September 3, 2021 by SterioDesign

[mfitz804]

We should have just picked McDavid and seen if Edmonton was dumb enough to believe we were allowed to. 

[SterioDesign]

Also how dumb of us to... draft larsson... then trade him for Hall... just to trade hall.... and then sign Hamilton. When.... all along we could have just draft hamilton.

this is madness. MADNESS! 

[Guadana]

It would be interesting to look at our possible decision to choose Makar within the framework of the situation when we had Hynes and did not have McKinnon and Rantanen, and Philadelphia would have chosen Hishier. I wonder what we would be arguing about now.

[Guadana]

4 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Also how dumb of us to... draft larsson... then trade him for Hall... just to trade hall.... and then sign Hamilton. When.... all along we could have just draft hamilton.

this is madness. MADNESS! 

But we have Hamilton and Mercer now)

[DevsMan84]

11 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah well your feelings are irrelevant to anyone but you, so who cares?

The only difference is that almost everyone here understand that we made the best decisions based on all the informations scouts and management had. We did make the best decision cause it was really just Nico or Nolan. We're not talking about picking a guy 7 or 8 when its kind of a crapshoot.

Considering Makar turned into a stud, in hindsight was it the best decision? No. But thats simply not how you judge decisions.

So stop whining about us getting the 4th best player out of the top 5 like someone made a mistake or because another team knew better, it's not the case at all. It's badluck, that's it. It happens to literally every fvcking teams every year.

And that's the fall-back excuse Devils have for when Devils scouts choose the 4th best player out of the top 5 one season, or choose the 2nd worst player out of the top 10 in another.

Same excuse stat-nerds give when Devils players don't produce as much to reflect underlying numbers.

I would swear that the Devils are the unluckiest team in the NHL and in the running for all of NA sports the past 10 years based on the nonsense our fans spew.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

26 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

And that's the fall-back excuse Devils have for when Devils scouts choose the 4th best player out of the top 5 one season...

Honestly man, as far as this goes...what are you trying to say?  I think people here have made fair and valid points, re:  the Hischier pick; Makar (who may be the best the player of the 2017 Top 5 picks, still early) was not in the conversation to be the #1 overall pick in just about every circle.  The only two players who truly were...you know who they are.  No one was shocked when they were selected 1-2...the only doubt was who was going first and who was going second.  No one was saying "How was Makar not taken earlier than fourth?" or "Why wasn't he in the conversation to be the first overall?"  As far as the latter goes, all we have is some source who said that Shero might have been considering the idea...do we really know if that's valid?  

What are you getting on the Devils' scouting for, in this particular instance?  For not having a crystal ball and knowing that the guy that three teams passed on and was NEVER projected to go higher than he did would wind up potentially being the best of the lot?  The Devils have had an offseason that I think many of us are pretty happy with, and the kids are coming in with another year of experience...to each their own, but I really feel like this is more of a time for optimism, to see if Nico and Jack give us a better indication of what their (hopefully higher) ceilings really are, to see what Hamilton and Graves bring to the D-Corp, etc.  The last several seasons have largely not been fun, but we've already been over the history of why:  Lou won't blow things up and leaves Shero a bare cupboard, Shero does try to move things along with very limited resources but doesn't hit on enough of his moves, and now Fitz looks like he's at least primed (partly from having been a good seller) to get over the hump and at least have the Devils becoming a playoff contender in the near future...no guarantees, but it does feel like they're close to turning a corner.

I guess I'm not really understanding where this is all coming from.  Can we at least see how this season (which is clearly different than some recent ones, given the acquisitions) plays out?  If Hischier winds up being a very significant factor in helping the Devils in his own way in the years to come, is it really going to matter THAT much that a guy who wasn't supposed to be picked of Nico to begin with winds up being better than him?          

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

And that's the fall-back excuse Devils have for when Devils scouts choose the 4th best player out of the top 5 one season, or choose the 2nd worst player out of the top 10 in another.

Same excuse stat-nerds give when Devils players don't produce as much to reflect underlying numbers.

I would swear that the Devils are the unluckiest team in the NHL and in the running for all of NA sports the past 10 years based on the nonsense our fans spew.

you havent shown that you understood anything anyone in here has been saying if you keep repeating that 4th best out of 5 sh!t. You truly have to be trolling or straight up mentally challenged at this point if you truly believe what you're saying.

You absolutely do not understand the very simple principle of hindsight 20/20, thats so so clear