RowdyFan42 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 The festivities begin in an hour and 10 minutes. Let's get it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 We're hearing very little new between the candidates. I'm falling asleep. However, I do have two questions: 1) How is that Bush can paint Kerry as "in his own words, supported the military actions in Iraq because he saw the same intellegence that I saw" and also "he voted against the military action in 1990, so nothing seems to pass his test of when to use military force"? 2) Kerry says that he will not change abortion laws because, while he is a religious man, he cannot let his religion interfere with what should be a decision between a woman and her doctor. However on the issue of gay marriage, he says that he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman and he will not allow gay marriage. Is that not allowing personal morality/religion play a role in your government policy? How is one issue different from the other? Should not the right to get married be between a man or woman and his/her partner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I can't believe neither one said they are against raising the minimum wage. I understand Kerry would be for a higher minimum wage but I'm surprised Bush also said he was, I can only hope its for less of an increase. Minimum wage hikes are a jobs and small business killer and there is really no reason to raise them as it is anyway, let the market dictate what a job is worth. -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 (edited) As someone who worked at a Kmart, I know what it was like to make minimum wage. Fortunately, I had my parents to fall back on when I didn't have enough to cover tuition, books, transportation and meals. There were others there working at the Kmart that had no other source of income to fall back on. Single mothers with no job skills beyond helping customers and knowing how to put up displays. High school drop-outs trying to raise a family on two minimum wage salaries. These people need the government to raise minimum wage. This is from a non-profit, non-partisan group: http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatu...nimum_wage_2004 This is a collection of economists that dispute your claim that minimum wage hikes hurt small business and also hurt employment in general. The article admits that this is the generally accepted theory, but it's plainly wrong. In plain english - there are so many, many, many minimum wage jobs especially in places like the Kmarts and Walmarts and McDonalds that there ends up being lots more money into the economy. What this means that Bob's surfboards is gonna get more money as there are more low wage earners with the money to buy a surfboard. And this just isn't their theory - they have the numbers in that article to prove it. Edited October 14, 2004 by Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetsGoDevils Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Just curious Don, but does Canada have a minimum wage? If so, what is it compared to the puny U.S. wage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I taped it but didn't watch it yet. I take it from the lack of 'we won' posts, that nobody really won this one decisively? Guess the election's comin' down to the courts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 (edited) I think it was a good spirited debate, Bush seemed a little hyper but eh, something weird is almost expected of him whenever he makes a public appearence. I was surprised how religious Kerry sounded at times, usually he keeps this stuff close to the vest. Bush was weak on economic issues, pressed on education too much. Whenever he was confronted with something he didn't know he reverted back to education. Kerry was wrong about Bush not meeting with the black caucus. the first debate Kerry won by alot, the second he won by a little, the third he won by a little more than the second but alot less than the first. 3-0 Edited October 14, 2004 by '7' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamode Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I don't think it was decisive on either end. Dubya still fumbles over stuff and Kerry still talks out of his arse. Kerry for being a supposed Catholic though is a big contradiction with a capital C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 In Canada, provinces dictate the minumum wage. So there is a range. In British Columbia, the wage is $8.00/hour. While in Newfoundland it is $6.00/hour. When I was at Kmart from 1990 thru 1995 I was making $5.25/hr. Well, I did get a nickle raise each year. Woopie. Nova Scotia has since raised theirs to $6.50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyk Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Just curious Don, but does Canada have a minimum wage? If so, what is it compared to the puny U.S. wage? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's different from province to province. I think in Ontario it's only slightly higher (when converted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 So even though most economists believe it to be true because a smaller groups wrote a paper believing the opposite then the minority view is correct? Its an interesting article, on jobs growth though the study only covers a 3 year period. I admit I only really read the part focusing on jobs growth so maybe it came up in another section also. -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetsGoDevils Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Bush Highlight of the night: Finally, he wore a red tie! Other than that, I'd give the edge to Bush, but I'm biased Bush was much stronger this debate and I feel he did win. Lowlight of the night: Kerry bringing up Cheney's daughter. Total political cheap shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I did get a laugh out of Bush's reply to "What did you learn from the strong women in your life?" question. "To stand up straight and not to scowl". I think this was Bush's best debate in terms of facial expressions. Obviously in the first debate he looked ticked off. In the second debate he looked at the camera dead on with a rather deadpan expression that looked like a monkey. This time he turned to the side and you got a profile of his face, which made it look like he was actually interested in what Kerry had to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetsGoDevils Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I did get a laugh out of Bush's reply to "What did you learn from the strong women in your life?" question."To stand up straight and not to scowl". I think this was Bush's best debate in terms of facial expressions. Obviously in the first debate he looked ticked off. In the second debate he looked at the camera dead on with a rather deadpan expression that looked like a monkey. This time he turned to the side and you got a profile of his face, which made it look like he was actually interested in what Kerry had to say. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure Cheney wasn't in the wings on that side mouthing to him his replies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Substance = Bush 3-0 Emotion = Kerry 3-0 That's why i guess most people say Kerry won cause their intellect doesn't stretch past then hollow slogans and a politician playing on their emotion. Kerry is a pro-debater, so he knows how to say something and he'll know how to defend any position, that's why he APPEARS to have won. That fact is, I still have no idea how he's going to do 99% of the stuff he said he's going to to... "I have no idea what I'll find in Iraq and I have no idea what Bush left me there, but I have a plan" - Kerry LOL Pathetic Good job Bush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 So even though most economists believe it to be true because a smaller groups wrote a paper believing the opposite then the minority view is correct?Its an interesting article, on jobs growth though the study only covers a 3 year period. I admit I only really read the part focusing on jobs growth so maybe it came up in another section also. Not what I said at all. Right in the article they say that this theory his generally held because it seems to be common sense - not anything bore out of any real economic study. In their actually studies they found the reverse to be true - higher the minimum wage, the faster the job growth. This was discussed here last election and the conservative party didn't even bring up this false theory; their argument against augmenting the minimum wage was that it would lead to inflation. If inflation grows at a higher percentage than the raise of the minimum wage, you haven't helped anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I did get a laugh out of Bush's reply to "What did you learn from the strong women in your life?" question."To stand up straight and not to scowl". I think this was Bush's best debate in terms of facial expressions. Obviously in the first debate he looked ticked off. In the second debate he looked at the camera dead on with a rather deadpan expression that looked like a monkey. This time he turned to the side and you got a profile of his face, which made it look like he was actually interested in what Kerry had to say. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure Cheney wasn't in the wings on that side mouthing to him his replies? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Was 'the bulge' there again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 That's why i guess most people say Kerry won cause their intellect doesn't stretch past then hollow slogans and a politician playing on their emotion. "So those that think that Kerry won, don't have a very high intellect." I have you correct on this statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 That's why i guess most people say Kerry won cause their intellect doesn't stretch past then hollow slogans and a politician playing on their emotion. I have you correct on this statement? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Minimum wage hurts jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Minimum wage hurts jobs Err... that's quite, quite old and minimum wage is already $5.15. As for your eloquent "no", can you please explain the difference between your statement and my statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 BTW - we got plenty of flu shots. But I guess they'll just probably kill you since we're all just keeling over all the time from these shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 As for your eloquent "no", can you please explain the difference between your statement and my statement? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My post = "people say Kerry won cause their intellect doesn't stretch past then hollow slogans and a politician playing on their emotion" Your post = "So those that think that Kerry won, don't have a very high intellect" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 (edited) i def. thought kerry won this debate. i missed the first two because i had night class, but tonight we got let out early just for this (and the yankees games). kerry nailed bush on a lot of points and bush didnt say anything that even resembled intelegent. i think he officially lost tonight when he said "my opponent from Mass.[as if that has anything to do it the issue] doesnt that 49 [i think it was 49] million isnt enough money spent on education" there is no such thing as "enough money" spent on education. in NY state the cheapest non cummunity college are all 12k a year and up. i went to one for a year, it was disgusting, and ive been to alot of other SUNY's. alot are worse (acedemic wise) then my old highschool and smaller in size, if you have to take out a loan of 50k to complete 4 years of school you are in trouble when you get out. there is obviosuly no help being dished out to students, atleast in NY anyway. very few of my friends get any significant finacial aid if any. i got side tracked though, bush's stupid smirk might cost him the election, i just wanted to strangle him at some points. why cant he keep that under control! kerry had his moments too, all he has for everything "is a plan". well tell us whats involved with the bloody plan!! his cheap shot about cheney's daughter was a lowblow. and he has a stupid smile too, he looks like a bad emoticon on aim. never the less he still won the debate Edited October 14, 2004 by squishyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 So I know neither candidate answered every question 100% but did Kerry even address how he was planning on paying for his health care plan? He just came out and laid out his health plan again without saying where it would be paid from. Unless its from rolling back the tax breaks on the top 2% which seemed to be used multiple times to pay for things which cost on their own more than the rollback would be. -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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