Why Brodeur needs to win a Cup before he retires

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

he's gotta be worse then that

wasn't he the goalie for game 5 in 1992-93, against the Rangers too.... that was back when it was a 5 game series

but that's before my time

WHAT?! That's pretty weak Crasher...you've got to do better that. It's bad enough you got the opponent wrong...but a best of FIVE?!

They didn't play best-of-5 series back then! So far as I know I don't think there's ever been a best-of-5 series played in the NHL (I was wrong about this part, big time...see edited post below)...not in recent history for sure. Back in the 70s, there was a 3-game series first round (kind of like a wild-card), with some teams getting byes. (The '77-'78 Rockies made it as a preliminary, only to get bounced in two straight by the Flyers). The big change in the playoffs when Bettman came aboard was going to a 1-thru-8 conference seeding, as opposed to the 1-thru-4 format used within each division (the NHL also changed the conference and division names after that season). Each round remained best-of-seven.

They lost in 5 to the Penguins, in a best-of-SEVEN game series.

Sorry dude, but your cred just took a big hit.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

EDIT from above:

The last series that happened (best-of-5) was the '85-'86 postseason (first round only). That was format used for the 80s, up until the change. I was more of a casual fan back then, and once the Devils were out (as they were every year back then) I was too. By the time the Devils made the playoffs for the first time as the Devils, I could drive myself to games, and my dad finally coughed up the $$ for SportsChannel, so then I was watching a lot more, and by then the playoff format had changed, so I made the mistake of assuming that it had been best-of-7s for some time before the '87-'88 season. Big screw-up on my part.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[CRASHER]

WHAT?! That's pretty weak Crasher...you've got to do better that. It's bad enough you got the opponent wrong...but a best of FIVE?!

Like I said it was the year before I started watching hockey.... I barely paid attention to it, and I thought I saw a blurb about it in the paper... while i will go geeky and look up history sh!t when I am fascinated by it... I wasn't going out of my way to look up yet another playoff loss like that

ok, 98 FELT like seven cause of all the OT losses

Hey I did pretty good off the top of my head there!

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Like I said it was the year before I started watching hockey.... I barely paid attention to it, and I thought I saw a blurb about it in the paper... while i will go geeky and look up history sh!t when I am fascinated by it... I wasn't going out of my way to look up yet another playoff loss like that

ok, 98 FELT like seven cause of all the OT losses

Hey I did pretty good off the top of my head there!

I screwed up too, so I take it back. I came off as a bit of a hypocrite on this one.

[Revan]

give mb time... he's working his way up THAT list fast

I don't understand all the hate for Marty. I mean, you think Roy and Hasek are better, that's OK. Not every Devils fan has to consider Marty the best. But it seems like you're taking a shot at Brodeur every chance you can.

It's really easy when the team wins and the goalie does a marvelous job. But when it's tough and they screw up... Yes, criticism is necessary but looking at some people here it seems like they went from loving Brodeur to hating him over one night. Support your guys when it's bad!

I know it's been said a lot of times, but I'll say it again: I can't imagine Devils fans when (if) New Jersey ever suffers a TRULY horrible season again, I mean Islanders-like horrible.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Revan

[CRASHER]

I don't understand all the hate for Marty. I mean, you think Roy and Hasek are better, that's OK. Not every Devils fan has to consider Marty the best. But it seems like you're taking a shot at Brodeur every chance you can.

It's really easy when the team wins and the goalie does a marvelous job. But when it's tough and they screw up... Yes, criticism is necessary but looking at some people here it seems like they went from loving Brodeur to hating him over one night. Support your guys when it's bad!

I know it's been said a lot of times, but I'll say it again: I can't imagine Devils fans when (if) New Jersey ever suffers a TRULY horrible season again, I mean Islanders-like horrible.

I can accept losing teams that suck and need to start over.... look at my Cowboys since 95

I can accept when a team lacks the talent to go all the way

I can not accept when my team's "star players" blow it in the big spot.... I don't wanna hear "they're human"... to me it's simple... you want to pat yourself on the back and smile and go awww shucks when they throw you in the best of all time category... you better RISE TO THAT LEVEL when it means the most! Like I said all over the internets.... I fell in love with this team and expected MORE... and when all I got was a lame ass game seven effort (and I KILLED the coach for chicken sh!t hockey too)....and your "star guy" blows it... when then he DESERVES a summer-long sh!t sandwich, cause he can't redeem until next April, and I wonder if he'll even give a damn then too!!!

[peteyvegas]

I see we're leaving out Dryden.

[LucifersDog]

I can accept losing teams that suck and need to start over.... look at my Cowboys since 95

I can accept when a team lacks the talent to go all the way

I can not accept when my team's "star players" blow it in the big spot.... I don't wanna hear "they're human"... to me it's simple... you want to pat yourself on the back and smile and go awww shucks when they throw you in the best of all time category... you better RISE TO THAT LEVEL when it means the most! Like I said all over the internets.... I fell in love with this team and expected MORE... and when all I got was a lame ass game seven effort (and I KILLED the coach for chicken sh!t hockey too)....and your "star guy" blows it... when then he DESERVES a summer-long sh!t sandwich, cause he can't redeem until next April, and I wonder if he'll even give a damn then too!!!

This needed to be posted twice at least. how right you are!

[SatansDevils]

They lost in 5 to the Penguins, in a best-of-SEVEN game series.

That was the 1993 PDSF where the Devils lost in 5-games to Pittsburgh. Brodeur did not play in that series CR.

Terreri played Games 1, 2, 4 and 5. Billington played Game 3. Tom Barrasso was in goal for Pittsburgh for all 5-games in that series.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

That was the 1993 PDSF where the Devils lost in 5-games to Pittsburgh. Brodeur did not play in that series CR.

Terreri played Games 1, 2, 4 and 5. Billington played Game 3. Tom Barrasso was in goal for Pittsburgh for all 5-games in that series.

I didn't say Brodeur did (he spent that season in Utica). I was more correcting Crash on the series format and opponent than anything else. I remember that series well...Dave Barr scored a controversial goal off his skate that tied Game 1 1-1, and some observers at the time felt the only reason the Devils took Game 4 was because Pittsburgh wanted to win the series on home ice. I remember the Devils being badly overmatched...Alexander Semak was the Devils' leading scorer that season, and his point total would have ranked him something like 5th on the Penguins, IIRC.

[SatansDevils]

I didn't say Brodeur did (he spent that season in Utica). I was more correcting Crash on the series format and opponent than anything else. I remember that series well...Dave Barr scored a controversial goal off his skate that tied Game 1 1-1, and some observers at the time felt the only reason the Devils took Game 4 was because Pittsburgh wanted to win the series on home ice. I remember the Devils being badly overmatched...Alexander Semak was the Devils' leading scorer that season, and his point total would have ranked him something like 5th on the Penguins, IIRC.

Yeah, I remember that series too and Semak had a good regular season, but was really a no show in that series vs. Pittsburgh. Stephane Richer had a good series along with Scott Stevens even though they lost. Lemieux just killed the Devils in that series. I agree with you about Game 4 and Pittsburgh wanting to win the series at home. The Dave Barr goal might not have counted in this new NHL era.

[MadDog2020]

I can accept losing teams that suck and need to start over.... look at my Cowboys since 95

I can accept when a team lacks the talent to go all the way

I can not accept when my team's "star players" blow it in the big spot.... I don't wanna hear "they're human"... to me it's simple... you want to pat yourself on the back and smile and go awww shucks when they throw you in the best of all time category... you better RISE TO THAT LEVEL when it means the most! Like I said all over the internets.... I fell in love with this team and expected MORE... and when all I got was a lame ass game seven effort (and I KILLED the coach for chicken sh!t hockey too)....and your "star guy" blows it... when then he DESERVES a summer-long sh!t sandwich, cause he can't redeem until next April, and I wonder if he'll even give a damn then too!!!

Post of the mother-f'in day. I couldn't have expressed my sentiments any better.

[Top Shelf]

I can accept losing teams that suck and need to start over.... look at my Cowboys since 95

I can accept when a team lacks the talent to go all the way

I can not accept when my team's "star players" blow it in the big spot.... I don't wanna hear "they're human"... to me it's simple... you want to pat yourself on the back and smile and go awww shucks when they throw you in the best of all time category... you better RISE TO THAT LEVEL when it means the most! Like I said all over the internets.... I fell in love with this team and expected MORE... and when all I got was a lame ass game seven effort (and I KILLED the coach for chicken sh!t hockey too)....and your "star guy" blows it... when then he DESERVES a summer-long sh!t sandwich, cause he can't redeem until next April, and I wonder if he'll even give a damn then too!!!

You win!

Could not have said it any better myself.

As bad as Game 7 ended I will give Brodeur credit for one thing- at least he didn't play like "the best goalie in the world to never win a damn thing" the other night. I don't need to say his name, we all know who he is.

[NJDevs4978]

Like I said all over the internets.... I fell in love with this team and expected MORE... and when all I got was a lame ass game seven effort (and I KILLED the coach for chicken sh!t hockey too)....and your "star guy" blows it... when then he DESERVES a summer-long sh!t sandwich, cause he can't redeem until next April, and I wonder if he'll even give a damn then too!!!

A couple things about that:

1. Your Marty bashing has been going on a lot longer than just since Game 7.

2. You may be killing Sutter too, but fact is 95% of your posts and venom here and 2MA since that night have been anti-Brodeur. Maybe a lot of mine have been anti-Brodeur here too but that's because strangely Sutter hasn't come up as a topic all that much. At least when I did my BoNY recap, I came down on 'em both equally and quite vociferously.

3. How about all the other players that didn't get it done in the big spot either? Martin couldn't clear a puck the whole series (neither could the rest of the D but he sticks out cause he's supposed to be our best), Whitey time and time again took himself out of position on big hits in key spots, Zach and Zajac pretty much dissapeared from Game 3 on, Elias did the same from Game 2 on though he was possibly hurt. At least Marty 'only' stank it up for a game though I agree he needs to be gotten on the most - along with Sutter - for various reasons.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Hasan4978

[CRASHER]

A couple things about that:

1. Your Marty bashing has been going on a lot longer than just since Game 7.

2. You may be killing Sutter too, but fact is 95% of your posts and venom here and 2MA since that night have been anti-Brodeur. Maybe a lot of mine have been anti-Brodeur here too but that's because strangely Sutter hasn't come up as a topic all that much. At least when I did my BoNY recap, I came down on 'em both equally and quite vociferously.

3. How about all the other players that didn't get it done in the big spot either? Martin couldn't clear a puck the whole series (neither could the rest of the D but he sticks out cause he's supposed to be our best), Whitey time and time again took himself out of position on big hits in key spots, Zach and Zajac pretty much dissapeared from Game 3 on, Elias did the same from Game 2 on though he was possibly hurt. At least Marty 'only' stank it up for a game though I agree he needs to be gotten on the most - along with Sutter - for various reasons.

1. so has his non-superstar level play

2. If I had done a thoughts from ... win or lose and you heard me at that game... I was ALL OVER Sutter that whole game for the chicken sh!t hockey.... and yeah my rage on Sutter is still there... but he's not a "superstar coach"... hell 2 seasons in are we really sure what we got in him yet??

3. Elias got 14 minutes... Madden got 20... I still think we are learning about the "star" of Parise... this series hurt that a LOT... I think the biggest reason i don't get on the other players is they were not put in a prime position to win the game... yeah Madden sucked... but he's a shot to the logo dude anyway, ditto with the other 2 as well... this team stopped playing a winning formula and played something not best suited to it's team's talents.... that's COACHING

[NJDevs4978]

1. so has his non-superstar level play

2. If I had done a thoughts from ... win or lose and you heard me at that game... I was ALL OVER Sutter that whole game for the chicken sh!t hockey.... and yeah my rage on Sutter is still there... but he's not a "superstar coach"... hell 2 seasons in are we really sure what we got in him yet??

3. Elias got 14 minutes... Madden got 20... I still think we are learning about the "star" of Parise... this series hurt that a LOT... I think the biggest reason i don't get on the other players is they were not put in a prime position to win the game... yeah Madden sucked... but he's a shot to the logo dude anyway, ditto with the other 2 as well... this team stopped playing a winning formula and played something not best suited to it's team's talents.... that's COACHING

Don't disagree with any of that, my only problem is the singular bashing of half the board towards Marty is just getting old (already) for me and I was as ticked as anyone when I heard from more than one fan after Game 7 that the fourth goal was soft - I was so much in shock and anger at the time I didn't care much to look and see whether it was a stoppable shot or not. I'm as down on Marty as anyone and if the opener of 2009-10 was tomorrow I'd withhold my applause for Marty - and Sutter - out of protest.

Still, the trade him debate is a bit much. So were some of the attacks in the birthday thread. It just gets over the top, but this board in general's become more toxic every year.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Hasan4978

[jsonnabend]

His holiness played the puck far less then he did in years before

and why would an aggro-puck getting goalie make you play MORE conservative anyway??

I'd think you'd want to play it safer for the guy you fear every shot is going in.... oh... wait... they did

It's not that they play the puck less with a puck handling goaltender that is difficult per se, but it changes the D'men's play in their end, positioning wise, breakout wise, etc. At my level of play, I find I usually have to go deep to retrieve the puck, and then along comes a mobile goalie, and BAM, I'm too deep to help with the breakout at all.

Still, the trade him debate is a bit much. So were some of the attacks in the birthday thread. It just gets over the top, but this board in general's become more toxic every year.

This is a sports team's (unofficial) forum. What the heck are we supposed to talk about? How great our exit was?

- Jeff

Edited May 13, 2009 by jsonnabend

[Triumph]

I've stayed out of the Brodeur threads for a number of reasons, but I think I'm going to say my piece and then be done with the issue until October.

There's no doubt that Brodeur played a weak game in Game 7. No doubt that he didn't play particularly well in the three defeats the Devils suffered in the last three years, either. There's also no doubt that in 2001 he wasn't particularly strong, and in 1999 he let up some stoppable shots, and maybe he should've won against Damian Rhodes in 1998 and there's a particularly poor wraparound he should've gotten way back when. And yeah, his playoff overtime record leaves something to be desired.

There is no Game 7 if not for Brodeur. There's no series against the 'Canes in 2006, we're not playing the Senators in 2007, and Sean Avery never gets to call Brodeur 'Fatso'. Because we're not seeded that high, and we're playing other teams, and we're likely out in the first round. Martin Brodeur has been the best player on the Devils since 2005. Stevens left, Niedermayer left, and here is a guy with a reputation in some circles of being a product of his environment and now he's on the downslope of his career. How many times has Scott Burnside declared the Devils not a playoff team? How many big-time hockey fans around the league can name even 2 defensemen on the Devils? They can name one guy though - Martin Brodeur. The player who has picked up his game the most post-lockout - the Devils were a hollowed out husk in January 2006, and Brodeur picked that team up, and along with Elias, willed them into the playoffs.

I hear people talking about Big Moments and What Players Do In Big Moments. It's my opinion that it's mostly random. There is no agency in that scramble with a minute and a half left - both teams are trying as hard as possible, and there's only 100 seconds left, and what happens happens, we can't predict how people will react in that situation, nor can we extrapolate from the rare times it does happen towards some incredible penchant for failure or success. The Game 7 loss itself is not indicative of wider failures, it's not indicative of a lack of Will to Win or Heart or Killer Instinct. This franchise has had three absurdly fortuitous Game 7 moments - Zelepukin's goal in 94, Elias's goal in 2000, and Friesen's goal in 2003. And of course none of those are possible without Brodeur - he was superb in both 2000 and 2003 in those Game 7s. One went against us this time. I still think about that game every night I'm watching hockey, it's utterly heartbreaking, and one of the lowest moments in franchise history. There's a temptation to blame everyone - I blame no one. It's what happens in this absurd sport.

Martin Brodeur is the goalie of the past, present, and future for the Devils. If we win the division next year, he'll likely be the reason. He's one of the all-time greats.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Triumph

[NJDevs4978]

This is a sports team's (unofficial) forum. What the heck are we supposed to talk about? How great our exit was?

You have the right to say whatever you want about Marty but why do there have to be any Devil threads at all right now? There's over a month to go before the draft and almost two before UFA starts. It's been two weeks plus since hell froze over and that's been dissected to death already. There's no rule that says people must post here when nothing Devil related is actually going on. Unless DM made it a requirement for continued membership and didn't tell anyone.

I mean sure if someone writes a new article or says something in the media it's a topic for discussion. If Lou re-signs someone or Sutter decides to skank away in the middle of the night those are also fair topics from now till July 1. So is the draft speculation. And there's been plenty of talk about the other playoff series, this folder isn't limited to Devils discussion only. Other than that though it just gets to the point of saturation.

My only point bringing up the birthday thread and the trade thread is that yes people can complain about Brodeur all they wish. Is it really neccesary to make smart remarks when people want to post Happy Birthday? There's plenty of other threads bashing him. And trading him is just so unrealistic and over the top it can only come up on a message board.

btw Tri excellent post. My only addendum is that there are off-ice reasons for people to be annoyed at Brodeur right now as well. But your synopsis was fair.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Hasan4978

[adavid]

I still think about that game every night I'm watching hockey, it's utterly heartbreaking, and one of the lowest moments in franchise history.

Me as well. I havent "enjoyed" any of the games since that night.