puck Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 This whole thread is pointless any way. If Hatcher wants 9 million the Rangers will give him 10. Classic Rock..Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilsFan Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 How about we show a lot of interest in Hatcher and Glen S swoops in on July 1st and pays 12 Mil/Yr for him... Go Devils!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#32 Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 Chort rather then debate several of your choices i'll just mention one, and a middle of the pack one at that. How can you say that Jovanovski is better then Hatcher defensively? Clearly you're not really watching games here so I'm going to have to go stats. Jovanovski played on the highest scoring team in the NHL and was still - 7. In fact, he was the only player on his team to log more then 65 games and still be in the minus category. He's a liability, and coughs up the puck on a nightly basis. You want to talk about an overrated defensive defenseman? Then start with Jovanovski. Don't even get me started on your other choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#32 Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 "How about we show a lot of interest in Hatcher and Glen S swoops in on July 1st and pays 12 Mil/Yr for him..." It wont be sather, he'll be fired before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Jovonoski and Hatcher are not even comparible. Jovo is much better then Daria at this point. Hands Down. :wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Come on, Jovo matches up against the top lines in Vancouver and does a fairly decent job. Hatcher's playing in a defensive system with another top defensive defenseman in Matvichuk, and players who are all devoted to the backcheck. Don't use +/-, it's not a reliable stat at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#32 Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 Don't just say Jovo's better. Tell me why and point to stats or plays. When you only say that he's better, it just shows that you have no evidence for this comment. Because right now all figures and statistics point to Hatcher being a better Defensive d-man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#32 Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 Agreed that +/- isn't always a reliable stat. Danny Heatly had a horrible +/- and obviously he has skill. But when you play on a team (Jovo) where you are the only player in the minus category this suggests something that you can see when you watch him play. And yes Hatcher played in a defensive system, but after Hitchcock got fired dallas opened things up and he still was effective. And consider that 5 Dallas regulars were in the minus category while he was tied for 3rd with a + 12. And i never said Jovo doesn't do a decent job, merely that don't try to suggest Hatcher is better on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Jovo might not be better on D right of this minute, but he will be by the end of the year.. Jovonovski is a more effective defenseman who is still growing. I would rather have Jovo on my team, I think he's quicker, and takes less undisciplined penalties.. I just don't like Hatcher's defensive style at all. I don't think he's horribly effective and I think this year, with the obstruction rules, he'll be less effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJayDevil Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Would never want Hatcher on this team because he is terrible. I dont think he is a good D at all, and what he did to Arnie and Sykie during the Finals was cheap and that guy can rot in hell for all I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 you'd be hardpressed to find one nhl gm who'd rather have hatcher than jovo. hatcher is on the down side of his career. he's now a one dimensional player. yes, he is still solid but i would not say he is better than stevens (and i'd rather have jovo than stevens too). his skating is not capable of keeping him on his man from the blue line in. he's a board worker that uses his arms and elbows to plant players. jovo has much more offensive talent at this point. and furthermore, i think that at this point in his career, hatcher's only slightly better than white. on this team, he'd be the 5th d-man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKatTGM Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 All I'm thinking when I read this thread is...I wouldn't really mind seeing Derian and Jamie on the same team again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 It feels good to be back posting on the main forum. Now, down to business. The Devils don't need Mr. Derian Hatcher. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not ever. The guy has no talent. The guy is a cheap shot artist. But what really amuses SBT is that some people are actually mentioning Jovocop and Mr. Derian Hatcher in the same sentence. As if there really is any comparison between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#32 Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 I apologize, I didn't realize the degree of bias among most of you would make this topic utterly pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chort Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 #32 - it is not bias. Why, just because we disagree with you it is bias? I watch Hatcher play almost every game. I live in Dallas. Hatcher maybe was good at one time...but not now. In fact, the Stars are VERY concerned that he and others on the Stars D are too slow and rely on obstruction too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Bias? Are we biased against Hatcher? I'm not. I just don't think he's very good. He might get the job done, but he uses the stick way too much for my liking.. slashing, cross-checking..I've never seen a defenseman use the stick so much in a playoff series. I think he will be one of the most targeted players for the obstruction crackdown. I have the same problem with Colin White. White is a little quicker than Hatcher, but doesn't have his veteran discipline or knowledge. But, as I said, in 4 or 5 years I think White will be almost as good as Hatcher.. which will hopefully keep him on the 2nd pairing. You can't look at players from a purely defensive standpoint because it's difficult to do. Defense leads into offense, and Hatcher's not very good at, say, making a breakout pass, or keeping the puck in at the blueline..and there's no stats that say anything about defense. +/- is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#32 Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Too many people are bias b/c they think Hatcher and all they think of are the 2000 finals. They're bias b/c a guy like White has been compared to Hatcher on several occasions. And yes the Stars are concerned that their D use too much obstruction but there's not a GM in the league that doesn't share that concern right now. Triumph, yes you can hope that 5 years from now White might be as good as Hatcher. Or 1 year from now you can have them both. I agree vehemently, Hatcher does not make that breakout pass, but that is not the point of getting him. Stevens does not turn the puck up ice too well either, but you can't deny eithers' D skills. Yes +/- can be very flawed. It can also tell a lot about a player, which is why I was using it in Jovanovski's case. He's the only guy from Vancouver with a minus yet people were calling him one of the best defensive defensemen in the league. You can't deny that in that case, it is very telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 OK. Let's assume Hatcher could help the Devils next year. What's he worth? Honestly, I don't think he's worth more than a $2 million salary for no more than 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Sorry Mattuea but HAtcher just is not that good. and he isn;t aging well either, Hoenstly I think I;d rather have another year of dany at 1.something mill then spending the money it will take to get hatcher. Now if edm is truly looking to dump Jason Smith's salary as we hadf heard then I'm all for Lou going full throttle to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Only my opinion but this thread is getting retarded. Devils don't need defense why the hell would we want Hatcher who cannot replace Stevens in the leadership department. He would bring nothing to the Devils. I'm not sure why you've got it in your head he's got something to offer. He's no Holik - he's no Mogilny - he's no Claude. If you look at it realistically and with unbiased eyes he fills no holes for the Devils. You're squishing an octagon into a circlular hole - close but it just wont go. You brought up an interesting idea - turns out it sucks - now let go Any other thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddDog Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I apologize, I didn't realize the degree of bias among most of you would make this topic utterly pointless. I'm not biased. I never cared for Hatcher even BEFORE we played Dallas in the Cup finals and he tried to decapitate Sykora. I just never thought he was all THAT great a d-man, and I sure wouldn't put him in any Top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I've been thinking it's been going too long also. Well I CAN do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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