Projected 2011-2012 line-up

[Triumph]

The evidence exists over 4 seasons now.

does it? how about you look at those numbers above?

corsi/60 by season:

2007-08: 1.88

2008-09: 1.40

2009-10: 2.17

2010-11: 8.33

this isn't that great, and i'm not trying to claim that greene has substantially improved. point is, greene's a break-even guy against decent competition, and that's worth something. it's certainly worth $2M in this market given what the devils are using right now.

At this point LL's strategy should be to NOT pick up another $2M man - but save that $$$ for a bigger UFA investment to play w/ANTON.

so it can be a bigger mistake? there's no money for that player and the devils HAVE TO make the playoffs next year. they cannot risk coming out of a possible full season lockout after 2 dead seasons with an $11M/season kovalchuk. they also can't be signing guys who are older than 30 because they're already going to have to endure volchenkov and tallinder's bad seasons in several years.

White, Tally, and Anton remain.

At this point you get the same level of production from any other of our kids or Samela as Greene at $2M.

absolutely not, and how people can watch this season and say these kinds of things, i really don't know.

I strongly suggest you email your Corsi, Stats, and Astrological projections to the GM's from around the NHL and maybe we can get something of use for AG, instead of LL pulling another "Clarkson" and paying a depth player well above his worth,

greene is probably our most valuable trade deadline asset if lou wants to go that route.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Triumph

[DaneykoIsGod]

greene is probably our most valuable trade deadline asset if lou wants to go that route.

This has been a depressing season, but that statement really drives it home. Andy Freaking Greene is our most valuable trade asset. Yikes.

Don't get me wrong. I didn't think Greene was that great when he was killing it and I don't think he's as bad as he's showing how. He's small, below-average in his own end, shows promise with the puck and is inconsistent. And THAT is our best trade asset. I really hope Lou gets some GMs drunk on deadline night and gets Conte some quality picks to work with.

[DevilinLA]

does it? how about you look at those numbers above?

corsi/60 by season:

2007-08: 1.88

2008-09: 1.40

2009-10: 2.17

2010-11: 8.33

this isn't that great, and i'm not trying to claim that greene has substantially improved. point is, greene's a break-even guy against decent competition, and that's worth something. it's certainly worth $2M in this market given what the devils are using right now.

so it can be a bigger mistake? there's no money for that player and the devils HAVE TO make the playoffs next year. they cannot risk coming out of a possible full season lockout after 2 dead seasons with an $11M/season kovalchuk. they also can't be signing guys who are older than 30 because they're already going to have to endure volchenkov and tallinder's bad seasons in several years.

absolutely not, and how people can watch this season and say these kinds of things, i really don't know.

greene is probably our most valuable trade deadline asset if lou wants to go that route.

Do all your stats take into account: Brodeur's age, pairing with Salvador, morale, girlfriend/wife issues, coaching/play style, team morale, player sex life, etc. etc., etc.

Hockey is more than numbers - for all your knowledge - its your one biggest weakness.

Regardless there is no reason for AG to earn a HUGE RAISE after a worse season - and not much in prior seasons.

If somebody wants to pay him $2M go for it - if he's paired with a Pronger, Keith, or Chara he'll do fine.

Short of that, we know what he is at this point - a low/mid pair defensman - and we have a glut of those - both already here and developing.

Edited December 21, 2010 by DevilinLA

[sundstrom]

nothing on the reference.

i'm ashamed of myself for even using it - it's from A FEW GOOD MEN which was making the rounds on cable and that line (along with a couple of others) are stuck in my head.

At this point you get the same level of production from any other of our kids or Samela as Greene at $2M.

absolutely not, and how people can watch this season and say these kinds of things, i really don't know.

greene is probably our most valuable trade deadline asset if lou wants to go that route.

i was one who often said that guys like salvador and white and mottau could be replaced with corrente, or any AHL guy that wasn't Mark Fraser - basically acting like an HF Boards poster that just assumes young unknowns that had decent scouting reports at one time must be better than pros who aren't awesome. this season is showing us that is a huge mistake and why none of us are GM's.

This has been a depressing season, but that statement really drives it home. Andy Freaking Greene is our most valuable trade asset. Yikes.

Don't get me wrong. I didn't think Greene was that great when he was killing it and I don't think he's as bad as he's showing how. He's small, below-average in his own end, shows promise with the puck and is inconsistent. And THAT is our best trade asset. I really hope Lou gets some GMs drunk on deadline night and gets Conte some quality picks to work with.

andy greene is the perfect kind of deadline guy. he costs nothing - absolutely every team can afford him. he can handle 20 minutes if you need him to (although most teams he's going to won't). he has offensive ability and won't kill you in his own end (he's just the definition of average).

[GoArmySports]

Gonna line it up like this -

L1- (Kovalchuk, Crosby, Malkin)

L2- (Kunitz, Staal, Dupuis)

L3- (Cooke, Talbot, Kennedy)

L4- (Asham, Letestu, Adams)

Defense is optional....

[Triumph]

Do all your stats take into account: Brodeur's age, pairing with Salvador, morale, girlfriend/wife issues, coaching/play style, team morale, player sex life, etc. etc., etc.

Hockey is more than numbers - for all your knowledge - its your one biggest weakness.

Regardless there is no reason for AG to earn a HUGE RAISE after a worse season - and not much in prior seasons.

deserve's got very little to do with it. just admit that you have a giant bias. do you understand that greene makes $737,000, which puts him among the lowest paid defensemen in the league? do you really think that his performance even this year is worthy of that kind of pay? like i said above - you have NO CLUE what $2M buys on the free agent market. john erskine is making 1.5M a season. go look at the assorted defenseman who are older than 28 making $2M. it's a group of guys like andy sutton and joe corvo and kent huskins and basically a group of d men who aren't very good.

If somebody wants to pay him $2M go for it - if he's paired with a Pronger, Keith, or Chara he'll do fine. Short of that, we know what he is at this point - a low/mid pair defensman - and we have a glut of those - both already here and developing.

sundstrom already addressed this. corrente is not ready and he's waiver eligible next year. fayne might work on a bottom pairing. salmela is trash. taormina looks like he can run a power play but his positioning is brutal. urbom will be 21 next year.

i'm ashamed of myself for even using it - it's from A FEW GOOD MEN which was making the rounds on cable and that line (along with a couple of others) are stuck in my head.

i've actually never seen this. i saw the end once and figured i didn't need the rest of the movie.

andy greene is the perfect kind of deadline guy. he costs nothing - absolutely every team can afford him. he can handle 20 minutes if you need him to (although most teams he's going to won't). he has offensive ability and won't kill you in his own end (he's just the definition of average).

this. he doesn't have a movement clause either. i am not saying that he is a better player than jason arnott.

[DaneykoIsGod]

Oh, I understand why Greene makes for good deadline fodder. I'm just used to bad teams (other than the Islanders) having a Brian Campbell, Marian Hossa, Sergei Samsonov or Ilya Kovalchuk on the block. Andy Greene just seems so ... I don't know ... like we're this bad, we should have something that'll yield a bigger return. I guess that's just because those are the deadline deals that get the attention, while the other 99% are for guys like Greene or less ...

[thefansvoice]

Taormina wouldn't be on defense? While he wasn't injured he had one of the highest playing time game after game? I think greene isn't living up to the faith the devils put in him, he's apparently part of the reason the devils were ok with martin leaving... please correct me if im wrong...

Edited December 21, 2010 by thefansvoice

[sundstrom]

i've actually never seen this. i saw the end once and figured i didn't need the rest of the movie.

while you should not go out of your way to watch it, if there is nothing else on, and if it comes on cable it is worth it for about 20 ridiculous quotes that can be reused. and the demi moore - jack nicholson sex scene.

Oh, I understand why Greene makes for good deadline fodder. I'm just used to bad teams (other than the Islanders) having a Brian Campbell, Marian Hossa, Sergei Samsonov or Ilya Kovalchuk on the block. Andy Greene just seems so ... I don't know ... like we're this bad, we should have something that'll yield a bigger return. I guess that's just because those are the deadline deals that get the attention, while the other 99% are for guys like Greene or less ...

arnott will have several bidders and will bring a 1/2 decent return - he could net a first in the 22 and up range or a second and halischuk or better prospect. he's actually MORE valuable at the deadline than he was over the summer because you don't have much to pay him on the rest of the season.

[ATLL765]

Andy Greene is a 5-6 guy, nothing more, nothing less. He's a solid 5-6 guy, but he really should never have played in the top 4. Last year he played way better than he really is and this year he's playing worse than he really is. I think he's worth 1-1.5mil, 2mil is too much for him. He's no spring chicken, so I don't think he's going to improve much over the next few years.

[Triumph]

arnott will have several bidders and will bring a 1/2 decent return - he could net a first in the 22 and up range or a second and halischuk or better prospect. he's actually MORE valuable at the deadline than he was over the summer because you don't have much to pay him on the rest of the season.

arnott has an NMC, that limits the number of bidders. unless someone out there is really desperate, it's going to be really difficult to get a 1st round pick for him.

also halischuk stinks but you knew that already.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Triumph

[Daniel]

When talking about paying AG anything more than $1.5/year in a new deal, just keep in mind how much we were all annoyed not long after the ink dried on the Oduya and Salvador contracts.

[Triumph]

When talking about paying AG anything more than $1.5/year in a new deal, just keep in mind how much we were all annoyed not long after the ink dried on the Oduya and Salvador contracts.

and those contracts are for significantly more. wrt salvador, the problem was more term than dollars.

[CarpathianForest]

Defensemen are typically overpaid, hence Jay Bouwmeester

[Daniel]

and those contracts are for significantly more. wrt salvador, the problem was more term than dollars.

That's true. However, unless we can dump enough of the dead weight before then, there's going to be a major cap crunch next year, especially given that Parise will get at least $5 million in arbitration. That gives you roughly $5 million to spend on six players (which doesn't include AG) assuming the cap doesn't rise significantly. Long story short, I wouldn't want to see cap gymnastics that could have been avoided if we weren't paying AG $2 million/year.

[Triumph]

That's true. However, unless we can dump enough of the dead weight before then, there's going to be a major cap crunch next year, especially given that Parise will get at least $5 million in arbitration. That gives you roughly $5 million to spend on six players (which doesn't include AG) assuming the cap doesn't rise significantly. Long story short, I wouldn't want to see cap gymnastics that could have been avoided if we weren't paying AG $2 million/year.

there's really not much cap gymnastics to be done. lose one of clarkson, half of rolston, all of zubrus, or all of salvador, and you're home free. the cap is going up next year. this is assuming that the devils are not stupid enough to use whoever they draft in the top 10.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Triumph

[Daniel]

there's really not much cap gymnastics to be done. lose one of clarkson, half of rolston, all of zubrus, or all of salvador, and you're home free. the cap is going up next year. this is assuming that the devils are not stupid enough to use whoever they draft in the top 10.

Salvador is the only one who is close to a sure thing. Clarkson, maybe. Zuburus, no, and Rolston... time to give up on that dream.

[CarpathianForest]

there's really not much cap gymnastics to be done. lose one of clarkson, half of rolston, all of zubrus, or all of salvador, and you're home free. the cap is going up next year. this is assuming that the devils are not stupid enough to use whoever they draft in the top 10.

You know Lou will find some way to get us up against the cap ceiling without making any decent moves.

[Triumph]

Salvador is the only one who is close to a sure thing. Clarkson, maybe. Zuburus, no, and Rolston... time to give up on that dream.

re-entry waive rolston or ship him out for a bad contract you can bury; if you will it, it is no dream.

either way, you lose arnott and langenbrunner and likely replace them with tedenby and josefson. that's 7.4 million switched out for 1.75 million. now all that extra money will go to parise, but you've got an additional $2M because of the cap going up. get rid of clarkson and you are basically home free to re-sign greene.

[ATLL765]

Worst comes to worst, we can waive Zubrus. I understand he's appreciated on these boards for his consistent hard work, but he can't finish to save his life. He's not worth 3.4mil, he's no better than 2-2.5mil and I'd take any trade offered up for him if it benefited us more than waiving him would.

Nothing against Zubrus, he's got great work ethic and shows it night in and night out, but he just doesn't put up the numbers to justify his salary. I know that can be said for just about everybody on the team this year, but I feel like Zubrus has lacked in that dept. since he was signed.

[CarpathianForest]

re-entry waive rolston or ship him out for a bad contract you can bury; if you will it, it is no dream.

either way, you lose arnott and langenbrunner and likely replace them with tedenby and josefson. that's 7.4 million switched out for 1.75 million. now all that extra money will go to parise, but you've got an additional $2M because of the cap going up. get rid of clarkson and you are basically home free to re-sign greene.

Is this a type-o?

[sundstrom]

there's really not much cap gymnastics to be done. lose one of clarkson, half of rolston, all of zubrus, or all of salvador, and you're home free. the cap is going up next year. this is assuming that the devils are not stupid enough to use whoever they draft in the top 10.

i would be pretty upset if whoever the devils draft at 1-3 isn't NHL ready next year. we're not the bruins here. whether it's larsson or courtuier, i would think that help could be realized immediately.

[Triumph]

i would be pretty upset if whoever the devils draft at 1-3 isn't NHL ready next year. we're not the bruins here. whether it's larsson or courtuier, i would think that help could be realized immediately.

i don't think the devils will be drafting 1-3. anyway with no bonus cushion next year, that player will likely cost around 3 million dollars.

taylor hall's cap hit w/ no bonus cushion: 3.75M

tyler seguin's cap hit w/ no bonus cushion: 3.55M

john tavares's cap hit w/ no bonus cushion: 3.75M

victor hedman's cap hit w/ no bonus cushion: 3.5M

it would be pure folly to have him in the NHL, to waste a year of UFA and his entry level contract, and to have him cost likely above what an equivalent free agent would cost. pure folly. especially if the league gets locked out the next year - you could conceivably have a 20 or 21 year old player coming in on a 3 year ELC.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Triumph

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

If we take a D man he has to go to the AHL or where ever.

I hate it when players like Luke Schenn are rushed to the NHL.

[sundstrom]

i don't think the devils will be drafting 1-3. anyway with no bonus cushion next year, that player will likely cost around 3 million dollars.

taylor hall's cap hit w/ no bonus cushion: 3.75M

tyler seguin's cap hit w/ no bonus cushion: 3.55M

john tavares's cap hit w/ no bonus cushion: 3.75M

victor hedman's cap hit w/ no bonus cushion: 3.5M

it would be pure folly to have him in the NHL, to waste a year of UFA and his entry level contract, and to have him cost likely above what an equivalent free agent would cost. pure folly. especially if the league gets locked out the next year - you could conceivably have a 20 or 21 year old player coming in on a 3 year ELC.

1) do we have a bet on this? i know we have s% and kovy 30g, not sure if the last one was no playoffs or bottom 5.

2) i certainly do think we'll be in the bottom 3 and am almost certain we'll be bottom 5. while none of these guys are crosby or ovechkin and the devils will likely not have be in a cap position where it's irrelevant (meaning that they have plenty of room one way or the other), i'd hope that one of the centers (if they go that way) could be better than what they might find. i understand your point.