Neb00rs Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) I've been itching to start a topic on this for awhile. This league is suffering from a whole lot of goalie overrating due to the teams in front of them being super. I am no expert but it seems to me that some goalies, like Quick, are held up as iron walls of goaltending, when their true level of skill is questionable.The 1-1 battle between Crawford and Fleury today was laughable. Both goalies sucked but both finished the game with .969+ sv pcts. Shooters scored 5 out of 6 times in the shootout. Now, given with guys like Kane and Crosby shooting it's difficult but what I witnessed was just pathetic. MA Fleury didn't come close to even stopping 1 of the 3 shooters he faced in the shootout. After letting in the third straight shot and losing the game, he slammed his stick on the goalpost. I don't blame him; it's difficult when you are exposed and realize that you are not as good as your team is making you seem. I can only imagine how good Cory would be on some of these teams. Here's what comes to mind in this conversation in general: MA Fleury - 8 shutouts on the year, 26 wins, .922 sv pct. on a good team (Somehow he has managed good numbers across the board). Though, with a career .911/2.59 though, on the juggernaut he has played for, that's just sad. Jonathan Quick - Often included in discussions about the league's best netminder; 21 wins but a .909 sv pct. and a 2.50 GAA on a good team. Ben Bishop - TB's widely heralded goalie; 27 wins on the year but a .910 sv pct and a 2.47 GAA on a good team. He has been outplayed by his backup Vasilevskiy by a wide margin (.932 and 2.00). Ryan Miller - 26 wins, 6 shutouts but a .913 sv pct. and a 2.46 GAA on a good team. Does anyone really think he's that good? Antii Niemi - 23 wins, 4 shutouts, .912 and a 2.60 GAA on a good team. Jimmy Howard - Has a .919 and a 2.14 GAA but is on a pretty good team and has had two seasons of .910 or below play in the past 5 years. I don't think he's that good. Frederik Andersen - 29 wins, .916 and a 2.37 GAA on a good team. Does anybody actually believe this guy is as good as the Ducks make him out to be? Corey Crawford - 22 wins, .920 and a 2.29 GAA. I don't think he's very good though. 2011-12 seemed to reveal his true self with a .903 sv. pct. and 2.72 GAA in 57 GP despite playing for a good team. Edited February 16, 2015 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Yeah, I think if we're talking about overrated goalies, Quick, Bishop, Miller take the cake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Neb00rs what are your thoughts on Brodeur? Because you can make a case about Brodeur being overrated by a great team every year similarly to a lot of these goalies. With Brodeur, it would be 99-2002 Fleury is having an excellent season and the rest are not, but I don't see anyone pumping these goalies' tires. Very few goalies are consistently good year in and year out, but I don't think one bad year reveals a true self just like a great year doesn't either. Bishop was great last year and below average this year. Crawford/Niemi, these are two goalies that will never get respect no matter that they are Stanley Cup winning goalies, so I would say the average hockey fan isn't so fond of them. Fleury being an average goalie on a great team isn't sad. It's just what it is. Very good teams can overcome average goaltending to a point, but he's been very solid this year. I would never look at a goalies raw numbers, and say they have o be better because the team in front of you is great. Edited February 15, 2015 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louismydad Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Quick gets paid for what he does in the playoffs, last year he disnt let in a gial in the finals after the half way point of the second period in any games. You can say thats due to his team being hreat but he has to get some credit. He is a brick wall in the playoffs for the most part(disregard the first 3 games of the SJS series) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'm not buying that fleury and Crawford both "sucked" after posting close to .970s because they were scored on in a shootout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louismydad Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'm not buying that fleury and Crawford both "sucked" after posting close to .970s because they were scored on in a shootout. yes^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 DR33 covered what I was going to say.. gotta be careful here as Devils fans, because the same could be said about quite a few of Marty's seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I'll never put Quick in the 'overrated' category. He is having a bad season. But he is the true definition of a money goalie. Howard was having a good bounce back year in the second year of his deal. He's better than you think. Andersen is basically in his first full season and could be overtaken by Gibson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Quick is the Eli Manning of the NHL...just get him in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louismydad Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Quick is the Eli Manning of the NHL...just get him in the playoffs. Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Neb00rs what are your thoughts on Brodeur? Because you can make a case about Brodeur being overrated by a great team every year similarly to a lot of these goalies. With Brodeur, it would be 99-2002 Fleury is having an excellent season and the rest are not, but I don't see anyone pumping these goalies' tires. Very few goalies are consistently good year in and year out, but I don't think one bad year reveals a true self just like a great year doesn't either. Bishop was great last year and below average this year. Crawford/Niemi, these are two goalies that will never get respect no matter that they are Stanley Cup winning goalies, so I would say the average hockey fan isn't so fond of them. Fleury being an average goalie on a great team isn't sad. It's just what it is. Very good teams can overcome average goaltending to a point, but he's been very solid this year. I would never look at a goalies raw numbers, and say they have o be better because the team in front of you is great. I don't dislike Fleury or root against him. I like the guy. I do think though, that these goalies get too much credit. Did Brodeur benefit from good teams playing in front of him? Of course. If Fleury ends up playing at a high level as long as Marty, I will give him credit where credit is due. My issue is simple, albeit maybe somewhat superficial. I have to hear hockey analysts and announcers drone on about how great these goalies are, when that is not in the observable evidence. I mean I never saw Marty be quite as weak as Fleury in any of his seasons, stats aside. Sometimes Fleury looks completely lost in net. Bishop too. all the time we hear about how he is soooo great. In his case, he might not even be the best goalie on his team. You might not have the same experience, and perhaps you don't see the heralding of these goalies as annoying. And that's fine. But I do. It bothers me, so I posted about it. Feel free to hate on me for that (and I don't mean that facetiously). I'm not buying that fleury and Crawford both "sucked" after posting close to .970s because they were scored on in a shootout. Not what I said at all. But okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Frederik Andersen - 29 wins, .916 and a 2.37 GAA on a good team. Does anybody actually believe this guy is as good as the Ducks make him out to be? Yes. He didn't come out of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Quick is a pretty damn good goalie, and he's proven it now twice when it has mattered most. I don't think that can be disputed. As far as Bishop is concerned, he's having a pretty terrible season, and even Bolts fans down here see and admit that. Also, to say and compare him to the season Vasilevski is having is both unfair and irrelevant. Vasilevski has only played a handful of games, and beyond that, he's literally touted as the #1 goalie in the world and has shown flashes of that already. It would be nothing to scoff at if Bishop lost the starting job to him as early as next season, and frankly, probably 20-25 other starting goalies would as well. If he turns out to be half as good as he's expected to be, and Tampa is able to maintain some of their young prospects for a while, they are going to be a scary force for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) When I read the thread title (or have any similar conversations), first name that comes to mind is Corey Crawford. I'll put Jimmy Howard and Marc Andre Fleury in there too. However, I'd take Quick and Miller out of your list. I think Miller's proven enough posting top 5 league stats for so many years while being on an awful team like Buffalo for so long. And Quick, well, it's intangible. Like someone said, just get him to the playoffs. Granted, Quick's slide downward has already begun and will be quick. He won't be too effective of a goaltender in a few years. Edited February 16, 2015 by DJ Eco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) When I read the thread title (or have any similar conversations), first name that comes to mind is Corey Crawford. I'll put Jimmy Howard and Marc Andre Fleury in there too. However, I'd take Quick and Miller out of your list. I think Miller's proven enough posting top 5 league stats for so many years while being on an awful team like Buffalo for so long. And Quick, well, it's intangible. Like someone said, just get him to the playoffs. Granted, Quick's slide downward has already begun and will be quick. He won't be too effective of a goaltender in a few years. Miller I probably should have qualified. I think he was really good. Not so sure he is anymore. He was pretty miserable on the Blues, and he was weak for large parts this season. Edited February 16, 2015 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Quick is a pretty damn good goalie, and he's proven it now twice when it has mattered most. I don't think that can be disputed. As far as Bishop is concerned, he's having a pretty terrible season, and even Bolts fans down here see and admit that. Also, to say and compare him to the season Vasilevski is having is both unfair and irrelevant. Vasilevski has only played a handful of games, and beyond that, he's literally touted as the #1 goalie in the world and has shown flashes of that already. It would be nothing to scoff at if Bishop lost the starting job to him as early as next season, and frankly, probably 20-25 other starting goalies would as well. If he turns out to be half as good as he's expected to be, and Tampa is able to maintain some of their young prospects for a while, they are going to be a scary force for a long time. Vasilevskiy has put up pretty serious numbers his entire junior career and in the WC. TB might have gold on their hands for sure. Still, TB might want to give him some time, he's only 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Miller I probably should have qualified. I think he was really good. Not so sure he is anymore. He was pretty miserable on the Blues, and he was weak for large parts this season. Yeah, to be fair, I haven't watched him all that much since he was a Sabre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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