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GDT: Devils vs Rangers, 30 Nov, Whatever time

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24 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

I really don't care what happened in Pittsburgh. 

I've been ok with Ray but what's going on here is now 4 out of his 5 seasons here with no playoffs and in the one year that we made it we had 1 win when we barely made the playoffs. 

Add that to him sticking with this horrible coaching staff for far too long and it's clear why people are starting to turn on him. 

I've frankly had enough myself and if Ray doesn't want to change this then he can kick rocks too. 

What's the worst that can happen if Shero leaves too? We have another half decade of being one of the worst teams in the league? Lol we literally can't be much worse than we are now. 

This is so incredibly unfair to pin that on him. 

He started in 2015 with possibly the worst NHL roster in history and no assets or prospects. He didn't even have ONE top player to build around. Did you expect us to make the playoff in 2015? 2016 or 2017? it was even a miracle that we made it that one year. And why did we make it? Because the guy who Shero stole from the Oilers had a career year. 

How fast do you think it takes to take a team like that and build a contender? What he built so far is borderline a miracle and we got lucky to win the lottery twice.

The fact that so many fans simply cannot understand this is mindblowing.

Edited by SterioDesign

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52 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I'd love to give some context.

Right now some want him fired cause he's not firing a coach soon enough and maybe for the hall thing?

Who here wanted Lou fired on Dec 1 2010 when John MacLean was a disaster? Who wanted Lou fired after not firing Conte after decades of terrible drafting, which resulted in stripping our pipeline completely up until this day? Who wanted Lou fired after letting god knows how many top UFA walk for nothing?

Now we have a guy who inherited an absolute garbage team with no assets to play with. Goes and builds an actual NHL rosters with prospected in the pipeline within 4-5 years. Make the playoffs on the 3rd year actually. And we want him fired on his first strike? lol cmon now.

Lou fired MacLean on December 23rd 2010.

Really lets not forget who really didn't learn from past mistakes and got the franchise as low as we were in 2015.

 

I’m not going through your banter with Daniel, so only referencing this post: I’m not going through my own post history but I can say I wanted Mac gone as fast in 2010 as Hynes. If not, it’s cause Mac was new and not the same idiot I’ve bitched about nearly all 4+ years he’s been here. Lineups or not, coaches need to get the most from their players, he doesn’t do sh!t in that regard anymore.

I’m pissed off at Ray cause he is letting this happen. He doesn’t need the perfect answer right now, he needs an answer, and inactivity is an unacceptable solution for me. Sitting on his hands, with all of the wonderful things he’s done, says he’s as lost as the mouth breathing DBA to me. I know it isn’t the case, but this was widely accepted as their show me season, and it’s going horrendously poorly.

I’m also not going to give him as much of a benefit of the doubt as Lou cause he hasn’t earned it and, you can also blame Lou for why I’m bitter. We suffered through him hitting us for one last shot at glory, then no playoffs, then Conte, then he got fired, Then Ray started the rebuild, then teased us with the playoffs, then went for glory this summer, now we sit at the bottom of the pack, yet. again.
 

Ray earned his contract, he deserved his extension.

John Hynes has earned a pink slip and a spot on the corner, huddled under tattered clothing begging for money and work.

The problem is, Ray is turning a blind eye to it. And that is a major problem.

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47 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

And again remind me how Shero only got success because of Crosby and Malkin but they were injured for most of the season the year they won the cup and that bylsma won the jack adam? 

LOLWUT...Malkin played all 106 games in the 2008-09 regular season and playoffs, and Crosby played 101 including every playoff game.  The previous regular season when they got to the Finals Malkin also played every single game, Crosby missed 29 in the regular season but played every playoff game.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

This is so incredibly unfair to pin that on him. 

He started in 2015 with possibly the worst NHL roster in history and no assets or prospects. He didn't even have ONE top player to build around. Did you expect us to make the playoff in 2015? 2016 or 2017? it was even a miracle that we made it that one year. And why did we make it? Because the guy who Shero stole from the Oilers had a career year. 

How fast do you think it takes to take a team like that and build a contender? What he built so far is borderline a miracle and we got lucky to win the lottery twice.

The fact that so many fans simply cannot understand this is mindblowing.

Like I said I haven't had any major issues with Ray until this year when he has refused to get rid of this coaching staff so far. I'm at the point where I just don't care if Ray stays or goes anymore. We haven't been good with him and we really can't be that much worse without him. 

Even if you take out his first 3 seasons here we finished last in the division last season and are on pace to do so again this year.

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I find that most of the people like Sterio who are blind supporters of Ray tended to be the biggest Lou bashers.  It's almost as if they're so invested that Lou was so terrible the next guy has to work.  It's okay to admit you might have been wrong about Lou and Shero's sh!t doesn't smell like roses.

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4 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I’m not going through your banter with Daniel, so only referencing this post: I’m not going through my own post history but I can say I wanted Mac gone as fast in 2010 as Hynes. If not, it’s cause Mac was new and not the same idiot I’ve bitched about nearly all 4+ years he’s been here. Lineups or not, coaches need to get the most from their players, he doesn’t do sh!t in that regard anymore.

I’m pissed off at Ray cause he is letting this happen. He doesn’t need the perfect answer right now, he needs an answer, and inactivity is an unacceptable solution for me. Sitting on his hands, with all of the wonderful things he’s done, says he’s as lost as the mouth breathing DBA to me. I know it isn’t the case, but this was widely accepted as their show me season, and it’s going horrendously poorly.

I’m also not going to give him as much of a benefit of the doubt as Lou cause he hasn’t earned it and, you can also blame Lou for why I’m bitter. We suffered through him hitting us for one last shot at glory, then no playoffs, then Conte, then he got fired, Then Ray started the rebuild, then teased us with the playoffs, then went for glory this summer, now we sit at the bottom of the pack, yet. again.
 

Ray earned his contract, he deserved his extension.

John Hynes has earned a pink slip and a spot on the corner, huddled under tattered clothing begging for money and work.

The problem is, Ray is turning a blind eye to it. And that is a major problem.

im not sure if he's turning a blind eye as much as giving him at least a little slack cause he knows he gave Hynes sh!t goaltending which cost him many many games where the team played well enough to win.

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6 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I find that most of the people like Sterio who are blind supporters of Ray tended to be the biggest Lou bashers.  It's almost as if they're so invested that Lou was so terrible the next guy has to work.  It's okay to admit you might have been wrong about Lou and Shero's sh!t doesn't smell like roses.

Not at all if you'd pay attention i even said that Shero's biggest failure IMO was the same thing i had against Lou. It has nothing to do with who was doing it, i just systematically don't agree with the approach they took at those times. 

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

im not sure if he's turning a blind eye as much as giving him at least a little slack cause he knows he gave Hynes sh!t goaltending which cost him many many games where the team played well enough to win.

Expected wins or not, there is zero excuse at this point for this type of roster to be second to last in the league. ZERO.

There is also no excuse out there for this team to play so inconsistently, come out so unmotivated and play so piss poorly that it would drive a Mites On Ice coach to become an alcoholic.

he cannot fire the entire team, but he can change coaches, and his inactivity is very telling

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19 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

LOLWUT...Malkin played all 106 games in the 2008-09 regular season and playoffs, and Crosby played 101 including every playoff game.  The previous regular season when they got to the Finals Malkin also played every single game, Crosby missed 29 in the regular season but played every playoff game.

i didnt word my sentence correctly. Winning the cup and the jack adams were 2 different seasons. which is 2 separate accomplishments

Quote

"Bylsma was awarded the Jack Adams Award as the league's most outstanding coach for the 2010–2011 season due to the Penguins still being a contender for the Stanley Cup without his two star players Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin."

 

Edited by SterioDesign

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2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

im not sure if he's turning a blind eye as much as giving him at least a little slack cause he knows he gave Hynes sh!t goaltending which cost him many many games where the team played well enough to win.

PK Subban has 5 fvcking points in 25 fvcking games.   That is two less points than Radko Gudas.   I know you hate him and everything, but do you seriously believe he just forgot how to play hockey all the sudden and it couldn't have anything to do with the people who are coaching the team. 

 

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Even bad coaches can have overachieving seasons - exhibit A Hynes' first year here.  

Bylsma did good for 'half a season' when Crosby and Malkin were both out of the lineup from mid-January on in 2011 but they had a nice cushion to begin with considering they were 26-12-3 in the first half, it's not like they had to dig out of a hole without them.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i didnt word my sentence correctly. Winning the cup and the jack adams were 2 different seasons. which is 2 separate accomplishments

 

Dying on the hill of Dan Bylsma being a good coach.  Now that's something.

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2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

PK Subban has 5 fvcking points in 25 fvcking games.   That is two less points than Radko Gudas.   I know you hate him and everything, but do you seriously believe he just forgot how to play hockey all the sudden and it couldn't have anything to do with the people who are coaching the team. 

 

I never said Hynes was a great coach. Well at least not recently. Many here wanted him nominated for the jack adam when we made the playoffs cause we certainly didnt have a roster good enough for that. We have a better roster now.

I'm fine with him being fired too. I'm just not going to sacrifice Shero over this

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2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

PK Subban has 5 fvcking points in 25 fvcking games.   That is two less points than Radko Gudas.   I know you hate him and everything, but do you seriously believe he just forgot how to play hockey all the sudden and it couldn't have anything to do with the people who are coaching the team. 

 

Out of all the theories this one makes the least sense to me to answer your question - yes.

His game has been in decline prior to this season. How in gods name is Hynes responsible for PK repeatedly getting beat in the D zone, actually looking lost at times. Getting outworked, skated around, passes that seemingly go right through him etc. As for his shot this one is the biggest stretch to me in how Hynes is causing his shot to more often than not pepper the end boards, get blocked, or a dart into the crest.  It's not just his offense he's been a problem on both ends of the ice. He's a ten year pro and his game is being junked by a coach? He's doing that all by himself.

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1 minute ago, titans04 said:

Out of all the theories this one makes the least sense to me to answer your question - yes.

His game has been in decline prior to this season. How in gods name is Hynes responsible for PK repeatedly getting beat in the D zone, actually looking lost at times. Getting outworked, skated around, passes that seemingly go right through him etc. As for his shot this one is the biggest stretch to me in how Hynes is causing his shot to more often than not pepper the end boards, get blocked, or a dart into the crest.  It's not just his offense he's been a problem on both ends of the ice. He's a ten year pro and his game is being junked by a coach? He's doing that all by himself.

He is only 30 and even in his worst year scored at a .5 point per game average.  He is still in top physical shape and I don't hear anyone saying he's slower than he used to be.  Even Thomas Vanek didn't fall of cliff like that.

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6 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Out of all the theories this one makes the least sense to me to answer your question - yes.

His game has been in decline prior to this season. How in gods name is Hynes responsible for PK repeatedly getting beat in the D zone, actually looking lost at times. Getting outworked, skated around, passes that seemingly go right through him etc. As for his shot this one is the biggest stretch to me in how Hynes is causing his shot to more often than not pepper the end boards, get blocked, or a dart into the crest.  It's not just his offense he's been a problem on both ends of the ice. He's a ten year pro and his game is being junked by a coach? He's doing that all by himself.

Yeah Subban drove coaches crazy his whole career. He basically never did what he was asked to do. So to blame the coach on his lack of production is actually funny

Just now, Daniel said:

He is only 30 and even in his worst year scored at a .5 point per game average.  He is still in top physical shape and I don't hear anyone saying he's slower than he used to be.  Even Thomas Vanek didn't fall of cliff like that.

you're really not listening carefully if you never heard anyone saying that Subban was slower than he was. 

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I have to [somewhat] agree with Daniel here on PK Subban. That's not to say he hasn't been personally bad at all - he has at times to an extent - or that his skills haven't diminished at all - they have.

Many of his numbers across the board have dropped off too - but we have to ask ourselves the reasons for that. It's hard to pin it all on him because it's not like he's producing offense at such an absurdly lower rate than he has before. I know he's been beaten one-on-one a few times - and it's been more than I'd like - but there's no defensman in the league who doesn't get beat sometimes. Almost every defensive strategy employs failsafes for d-men getting beat, especially on the defensive blue line. The Devils are so out of whack at times, there's often just no support and thus, no room for error for the players.

Keep in mind as well that PK has had a nine shot game this year. Do you know what the highest shots for a defenseman are in a game this year? 9. And only one other d-man besides PK has done it (Giordano). I'll give you that both PK's 9 and 7 shot games this year came against rather poor defensive teams but 9 shots for a d-man is just not something you see often and it takes skill to pull it off. To be fair, PK's shots haven't been super high danger but the idea with him is that he gets the shot to the net and the forwards finish the job. Only problem is, the Devils are terrible at getting to the high danger zones in front of the net and getting shots off or tips. How many deflected pucks do you even recall the Devils pulling off this year? For the record, this year PK is averaging his fourth-best rebounds created/60 relative to other seasons in his career.

Fact is, PK can still break out of the defensive zone, can still carry the puck, and can still generate a lot of offense. No he's not a rocket blasting up the ice, no he's not even close to Norris form, but he has shown signs of being able to play better than he has for the majority of his time under the Hynes playbook.

PK also hasn't played much on PP1 with the most dangerous forwards, and as you already know, PP2 can't score a goal to save their lives. Still, at 5v5 PK is first on the team in shot attempts/60 and third in CF%/60.

I'll admit of late PK has been worse than he was to start the year, but it's hard for me to tell if that's his 30 year-old legs getting to him or just complete exasperation and confusion. I'm not drawing a super strong conclusion here, but the numbers as well as his observable play lead me to believe there's at least a chance he can be significantly better than what he is right now.

Finally, I do believe that there is a serious confidence issue going on among the veterans on this team - this isn't so well thought out on my part, but I'd be lying if I said my eyes weren't seeing that manifest on the ice.

 

Edited by Neb00rs
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It can’t be that each veteran player fell off the cliff, each young player can’t realize their potential, and the team on the whole is completely out of synch. Some of these players like Severson and Hischier who should be taking next steps in their development had a very strong World Championship - though it’s not the strongest tournament nonetheless it’s a good barometer that they should be on upward trajectory

Edited by PacificDevil
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