The Sutter System

[DevilinLA]

Just wanted some opinions:

We all know that Sutter is trying to implement a new system for the boys these past few games, and obviouslly it is going to take some time to adjust. So, while we painfully watch through the "growing pains" of each game here's a question to consider:

Can this team team play this new system and style of play effectively with the personnel Sutter has available to him?

If so...what needs to happen?

If not...would any personnel changes, trades, or shifts make a difference?

Personally, I'd like to give this thing a chance...but I'd like to hear some opinions from the informed posters here relative to this "system" we hear so much about.

[Satans Hockey]

I'm too tired to actually give a good response right now but I think this is a great thread.

[ice dog]

hell yeah! give it a chance!

the devils got plenty of talent and once elias, gionta, parise start heating up they should be able to generate plenty of scoring. I think zubrus will come into his own and be a great devil as well.

zajac is gonna be a great center and clarkson an excellent power forward.

My only concern right now is the defence. i think the personel especially leaders like madden, langenbrunner, and and pandolfo will commit to working with sutter.

also hope for a speedy recovery for both white and langenbrunner.

no need to panic...change is good! watching the metamorphisis will be cool.

Edited October 13, 2007 by ice dog

[Sharifijanov2099]

I think like all Devils fans, I am hoping that the growing pains lead to eventual success in our transition from an old system into a new one. And I have no problem trying something new - in fact, it's refreshing - and I trust that things will work out eventually and NJ will make the playoffs and all that jazz.

However, I honestly don't think we have the talent needed to play the style Sutter is preaching - mostly on the back end. We don't have a Danny Boyle or Ryan Whitney or anyone like that who can run and gun with the puck... in fact, now it seems like Rachunek is our #1 offensive d-man (and not Martin, as originally envisioned), so this seems like a far cry from defensive depth with offensive ability.

Some will invariably point to Greene and maybe even Oduya (I know I don't, Odontya), but I really feel like if we're to return to dominance, we need some great Dmen. Pronger/Niedermayer was a great tandem in Anaheim, and so much of the game can be driven from the defense.

We know White isn't the guy who can play in the Sutter mold... so let's hope he doesn't convince Lou to trade him like Matvichuk (still bitter)... I know that won't happen, but logically speaking, that makes about as much sense as them getting rid of Chuck.

At any rate, I like the forwards and I think we have a good group and Marty is Marty, but the defense absolutely terrifies me as either competent offensive OR defensive entities. At least when you all play together and tighten all the lanes and opportunities, the team can function as a defensive unit. In this system, I have the feeling our inadequacies will be magnified.

We're 1 and 3, so of course opinions may be slanted and would be very different if we were 3 and 1, but pro sports is about winning - winning in the short and long term, and so far, I am not impressed nor am I confident about the team chemistry on the back end. I don't think Danny Markov is some great solution (a trade rumor myth perpetuated by Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate)), and I'm not sure who would be, but if we could nab a few great players (easier said than done, like Phaneuf, Boucher, Bieksa, etc.) - those are the kinds of guys who we could build around. Still, those players are highly coveted for a reason, but just making the point of the type of caliber guys I think we need and do not happen to have.

Things will get better once White and Langs return, for sure, and once Elias burries a few and Zubrus gets on board, it will all be for the best, but per the question, I do think we need something more to be ultimately successful - ie being good enough to compete for a cup.

[mackchi]

I think like all Devils fans, I am hoping that the growing pains lead to eventual success in our transition from an old system into a new one. And I have no problem trying something new - in fact, it's refreshing - and I trust that things will work out eventually and NJ will make the playoffs and all that jazz.

However, I honestly don't think we have the talent needed to play the style Sutter is preaching - mostly on the back end. We don't have a Danny Boyle or Ryan Whitney or anyone like that who can run and gun with the puck... in fact, now it seems like Rachunek is our #1 offensive d-man (and not Martin, as originally envisioned), so this seems like a far cry from defensive depth with offensive ability.

Some will invariably point to Greene and maybe even Oduya (I know I don't, Odontya), but I really feel like if we're to return to dominance, we need some great Dmen. Pronger/Niedermayer was a great tandem in Anaheim, and so much of the game can be driven from the defense.

We know White isn't the guy who can play in the Sutter mold... so let's hope he doesn't convince Lou to trade him like Matvichuk (still bitter)... I know that won't happen, but logically speaking, that makes about as much sense as them getting rid of Chuck.

At any rate, I like the forwards and I think we have a good group and Marty is Marty, but the defense absolutely terrifies me as either competent offensive OR defensive entities. At least when you all play together and tighten all the lanes and opportunities, the team can function as a defensive unit. In this system, I have the feeling our inadequacies will be magnified.

We're 1 and 3, so of course opinions may be slanted and would be very different if we were 3 and 1, but pro sports is about winning - winning in the short and long term, and so far, I am not impressed nor am I confident about the team chemistry on the back end. I don't think Danny Markov is some great solution (a trade rumor myth perpetuated by Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate)), and I'm not sure who would be, but if we could nab a few great players (easier said than done, like Phaneuf, Boucher, Bieksa, etc.) - those are the kinds of guys who we could build around. Still, those players are highly coveted for a reason, but just making the point of the type of caliber guys I think we need and do not happen to have.

Things will get better once White and Langs return, for sure, and once Elias burries a few and Zubrus gets on board, it will all be for the best, but per the question, I do think we need something more to be ultimately successful - ie being good enough to compete for a cup.

intelligent answer...we are a LONG way from what Mutter er..Sutter wants to do. He may have the vision but he does not have the personnel. I hope we make the playoffs. Can't win without defense( not good now) and goal tending( we have this). Of course you need to score too but look what happened to Buffalo last year. How many teams in recent years have won with just this forechecking philosophy? New NHL or not...we have fallen from the ranks of serious contenders as we stand now. Let's try to enjoy the new arena and hope for some post season action. Or hope that Lou can get the right people on board....

[MantaRay]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[CRASHER]

Missing Langenbrunner is a hefty blow to this system as well... he's the ideal forward for this system

all I know is thank god the people that want to reinvent the wheel aren't at the helm after FOUR games

[njdevsfn95]

the first time i parallel parked, i hit the garbage can.

now think of 20people trying to parallel park the team bus with 1 man shouting directions.

NOT going to happen any time soon.

not have Langenbrunner hurts because it ruins the chemistry of our best line from last season. i only hope that when he returns, he Zajac and Parise can get it going again. until then, someone needs to step up.

offensively we're not producing but teams go through that EVERY year. it just so happens that its the beginning of the season for us. i guarantee we will have more 3-4 game stretches of very little output. its the reason why the season is 82 games and not 5.

i think we have many players adjusting to playing more and in different situations - Zajac and Parise on the PK a lot more than normal. the 4th liners getting more time means the 1st and 2nd are getting less.

it's a new system and honestly the younger guys (Parise, Zajac, Greene) and the New Guys (minus Zubrus) don't seem to be doing too badly. it is truly the old guard (Elias, Pandolfo - 6PIMs WTF!) that are getting used to something new.

when guys like Asham, Rachunek, and Vishnevski came in, they WERE expecting something completely different because they knew what the Devils were all about. they were able to mentally prepare themselves for what they were about to learn because it wasnt going to be the same style as the Isles or Rangers.

4 games means nothing really. if we miss the playoffs by 1 point we can look at any SO or OT loss as the "killer." hell, Toronto could look at blowing the 6-3 lead in our HO last season as the "one that got away."

we are on pace to go 3 - 6 on this road trip. many people think 4-5 or any combination of 8-10 points is fantastic...and theyre right. new system, new players, NO home games.

the unfortunate fact is if we meet a struggling team early, ie Florida Thursday, Atlanta tonight...we meet them in THEIR barn which has to be more difficult to begin with.

it wasn't going to be an easy 9 gamer to begin with. add to the fact we've got a new system and 11 new players, it just makes it that more difficult.

i am excited to see what this system will mean when the players understand it and are on board too. cause if they get it within 13 days, we are in for one hell of an opener on the 27th.

and realize, our 2-goal losses were the results of EN goals...we were in all 2 until the last minute.

[Triumph]

Great post, DevsinLA. I think we've all been mentioning this issue in separate threads.

I missed out on the Flyers' dismantling of New Jersey in 2004. However, I have seen Carolina and Ottawa dismember the Devils in the second round the past two seasons. Make no mistake - these weren't series where a little luck the other way and the Devils are the victors. These were series where the better team won, and was going to win a large percentage of the time.

Remember the old days of the trap? The Devils would send in one forechecker, move the rushing defender to one side, and sometimes he'd get confused and turn it over. The Devils would generate odd-man rushes this way, often sealing games in the third period with that backbreaking 2 goal lead. How often did you see New Jersey do this in the past two seasons? Either their trap was too passive to generate these odd-man breaks like it used to, or more likely, the opposition knows what to do against a trap and against the Devils. It's also true that with the interference rules changed, the defenders can't hold the blueline as much as they used to be able to - and with the trapezoid stifling Brodeur's ability to play the puck, it's more difficult for HIM to get out there and clear away dump-ins.

So now you've got this passive trap which kind of slows teams down but not really, since teams can't hook and hold at the blueline. Then you've got little to no transition game - the Devils are simply looking to chip the puck out of the zone, not head up ice with it and score, and again, teams aren't giving away breakaways like they used to to New Jersey. How does a team stop goals against and score goals with a defensive scheme like this? It doesn't, not against good teams, who can stomp all over the Devils' small or slow defensemen on the forecheck, and generate all sorts of offense out of the corner and behind the net. The Devils, meanwhile, cannot forecheck themselves both because of their reliance on the trap/matching lines, and their extreme lack of size at the forward position.

Tretyak and I had a long disagreement about the Devils' future over the summer. He's disappeared since then, but it sure seems like Lou is following his advice. And I think Tretyak's right - without Gomez and Rafalski, the Devils cannot be a team that relies on its power play to score while trying to limit its opponents' chances 5 on 5 with a passive trap - our power play stinks and the passive trap isn't much better. New Jersey was a minus team at even strength last year - that's inexcusable for a team that has Martin Brodeur.

The Devils' strength used to be its defense. Now, it's clearly the forwards. This team should be looking to generate turnovers in the offensive zone, not sitting back and waiting for opponents to make mistakes. They don't make those mistakes anymore - it's time to find new mistakes for them to make. I think it might take a bit, but the Devils will be successful with this system. And even if we miss the playoffs this year, it'll be fun doing it - more fun than it's been in years.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Triumph

[DevilinLA]

Gotta at least give Sutter some credit for trying to get this team to evolve into a new post-lockout team style of play that can compete with some of the other cup contenders. It's not a complete metamorphisis from the old, but I think Lou relazide that some changes in style needed to be adapted based on new rules and a less than quality selection of defenseman available on the market. I think its tough for a lot of fans to be patient until it begins to adapt.

Edited October 13, 2007 by DevilinLA

[nmigliore]

Just wanted some opinions:

We all know that Sutter is trying to implement a new system for the boys these past few games, and obviouslly it is going to take some time to adjust. So, while we painfully watch through the "growing pains" of each game here's a question to consider:

Can this team team play this new system and style of play effectively with the personnel Sutter has available to him?

If so...what needs to happen?

If not...would any personnel changes, trades, or shifts make a difference?

Personally, I'd like to give this thing a chance...but I'd like to hear some opinions from the informed posters here relative to this "system" we hear so much about.

[peteyvegas]

I'd like to see the Offense spread during the break out and keep the players and the puck moving. I do NOT like the D stopping behind Marty, which has been our habit over the last few years. Unless they are able to do that, we will continue to get pinned down for long periods of time. And then it's too late for the players to get back into defensive position. Scrambling is no longer our strong suit.

[Devs4LIFE]

I feel that we are adjusting well to the system but we aren't quite there yet, once we get there everything will be fine. I really feel like Langenbrunner and White would have benefited much from this system but like Frankie said "That's life."

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Great topic , i agree with most of what has been said.

The only problem i see with this new system is the defence. It will work if the offence is working well, but were still going to conceed a lot of goals, and place a lot of work on who ever is in net. In an ideal world we could bring a quality defenman into the system, such as a Pronger or Neidermayer, one player like that can transform a defence, look at Anahime, Beaucheman looks like a star, if we could obtain a player like that i dont think we would have a lot to worry about. Unfortunalty there arnt many about, and the ones that are, will come at a rediculouse price or wont be let go.

We dont have the players to adress this deficiency through a trade, so its either going to have to be through free agency or the draft, one options to expensive and the other takes time. Restocking the farm system is a must in the new NHL, and with the next few drafts seeming quite deep in quality we should be able to add some players who will have the potential to solve the poblem in the future.

In the mean time we are just going to have to hope Marty is on form and the offence can outscore the oposition, because i cant see the current group of players on defence clicking and producing for a long long while.