GDT: New York @ New Jersey

[Sarge18]

Maybe rookies was a bad choice of words.

Salmela would be a rookie and Greene isnt anymore he just plays like it at times. Like i said id kill to get Mottau out of the lineup to the extent that id rather go with younger guys who may make more mistakes, but have an ultimate higher upside to go with it. If the Salmela Greene pair works, and for some reason it seems Greene plays better without a stay at home guy, i think the coaching staff is going to be forced to look at breaking up the White Mottau pair, which would be a huge bonus for the team.

The lineup you posted adds a lot of skill to the team, and would take some pressure off of having a forward on the point on the pp all the time.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

That lineup also features 6 left handed defensmen. There is still plenty of time for Matt Corrente (right handed) to make an impression and I really hope he does. Its only early and one bad game shouldn't destroy Corrente's chances. I don't like Mottau either but then again we don't have much else at the moment.

Martin-Salvador looked good, I would be ok with that as our first defense unit. White Oduya scares the hell out of me. As much as Oduya has improved he seemed to turn around his game with Martin, our best defensmen. He is still prone to turnovers and with White, that is a deadly combo. I think Greene and White would be a better combo if not Mottau. Greene just seems the most composed out of those three.

Martin/Salv

White/Greene

Oduya/Sal

Edited September 25, 2008 by Jas0nMacIsaac

[Sarge18]

Sutter mentioned that yesterday, so many bad habbits to break. If Fedorov agree's to play as a 13th or 14th forward he may get better with time but I don't believe Fedorov's ego will allow that.

I know two rookies will not make the team unless they wow the socks off both Sutter and Lou but if Gionta continues to be average why not move him to clear cap space and try two rookies. Then again that certainly isn't a Lou type move.

But it has happened before Jason. Though Morrison was in the middle of a contract dispute, Gomez's training camp was a large part in giving him the boot off the team. Due to the waiver situation Vrana has a step up on the other guys right now, he is too good of an asset to get back to lowell. His versatility also gives him a better chance. Its Bergfors who has the talent to take someones spot.

Personally from what we saw with scoring last year, the team does need a skill injection and dropping guys like Rupp out of the regular lineup for Vrana can only help. There are only so many games a year where we need a legit heavy and that number is dropping annually.

Ideally id love to see them get back to rolling 4 lines, thats the sort of depth that the team had during the 99-00 and 00-01 teams and made them so dangerous, other teams couldnt afford to take a shift off. Having Holik back to take some pressure off of Madden in the checking role is going to be huge in that regard.

[maxpower]

But it has happened before Jason. Though Morrison was in the middle of a contract dispute, Gomez's training camp was a large part in giving him the boot off the team. Due to the waiver situation Vrana has a step up on the other guys right now, he is too good of an asset to get back to lowell. His versatility also gives him a better chance. Its Bergfors who has the talent to take someones spot.

Personally from what we saw with scoring last year, the team does need a skill injection and dropping guys like Rupp out of the regular lineup for Vrana can only help. There are only so many games a year where we need a legit heavy and that number is dropping annually.

Ideally id love to see them get back to rolling 4 lines, thats the sort of depth that the team had during the 99-00 and 00-01 teams and made them so dangerous, other teams couldnt afford to take a shift off. Having Holik back to take some pressure off of Madden in the checking role is going to be huge in that regard.

Gomez was spectacular, though, the year before he made the team. It's really hard to overstate how good he looked, I don't really remember his second camp well, but he should have made the team the first time, but he was too young.

I haven't seen anything like that since and I haven't been overly impressed with any "prospect/non-NHL" I've seen this year.

Edited September 25, 2008 by maxpower

[GOLDJR41]

I can't see how we can really evaluate Salameda from two preseason games. I have to watch tonights game again to get a better look but I think it is way to early to make a case for him to make the big club.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

But it has happened before Jason. Though Morrison was in the middle of a contract dispute, Gomez's training camp was a large part in giving him the boot off the team. Due to the waiver situation Vrana has a step up on the other guys right now, he is too good of an asset to get back to lowell. His versatility also gives him a better chance. Its Bergfors who has the talent to take someones spot.

Personally from what we saw with scoring last year, the team does need a skill injection and dropping guys like Rupp out of the regular lineup for Vrana can only help. There are only so many games a year where we need a legit heavy and that number is dropping annually.

Ideally id love to see them get back to rolling 4 lines, thats the sort of depth that the team had during the 99-00 and 00-01 teams and made them so dangerous, other teams couldnt afford to take a shift off. Having Holik back to take some pressure off of Madden in the checking role is going to be huge in that regard.

Well then a key in camp will be if Bergfors can take Gionta's roster spot, In Morrison's case there was a contract despute. There is no hard feelings with Gionta and the team. I would rather Bergfors really prove in the AHL he can score...maybe at a PPG.

[Sarge18]

Gomez was spectacular, though, the year before he made the team. It's really hard to overstate how good he looked, I don't really remember his second camp well, but he should have made the team the first time, but he was too young.

I haven't seen anything like that since and I haven't been overly impressed with any "prospect/non-NHL" I've seen this year.

I probably should have seperated my thoughts better. I was stating that it had happened before, and using the Gomez example, and then went to to evaluate this years rookies chances.

I dont think Bergfors is going to take Gionta's job anytime soon. The nearest would probably be the trade deadline if Gio gets moved for defensive help or next year if(which i think is probable) Gionta is not re-signed. Vrana due to his waiver situation is probably going to make the team, hes got nothing left to do in the ahl, gives solid depth to the team, and doesnt demand top 6 icetime to be effective.

[Triumph]

The reason why I don't like Bergfors or Corrente up here is because neither have gotten through a season staying healthy. Especially Corrente - I'd like to see him on a good Lowell team that makes the playoffs, then next year he jumps in for Greene or Oduya. But Bergfors needs to be a leader in Lowell too, it'll be his 4th year there, and with Tallackson out for the first few weeks and Vrana not going back, he'd be the guy on that team expected to score the most. 'Freeing up cap space' is kind of worthless if you don't fill it with something, and that something would have to be a veteran defenseman, of which little is available now and little will be available at the deadline.

6 left handed defensemen is not a real problem - Brookbank is right-handed, if he makes the team. We had 6 left handed defensemen in last year's playoffs, no?

Edited September 25, 2008 by Triumph

[maxpower]

Just something else I'll bury here instead of making another thread, because we don't need another one of those:

Anybody troubled by how low the attendance announced for this game was? Especially if comps were counted into the number? (As they should be and normally would be) That's probably a STH loss of over 2K from last season, if so, score another one for marketing. Literally no one was sitting in the balcony, that's going to be alot of tickets to move, even with the discounts.

[GOLDJR41]

The reason why I don't like Bergfors or Corrente up here is because neither have gotten through a season staying healthy. Especially Corrente - I'd like to see him on a good Lowell team that makes the playoffs, then next year he jumps in for Greene or Oduya. But Bergfors needs to be a leader in Lowell too, it'll be his 4th year there, and with Tallackson out for the first few weeks and Vrana not going back, he'd be the guy on that team expected to score the most. 'Freeing up cap space' is kind of worthless if you don't fill it with something, and that something would have to be a veteran defenseman, of which little is available now and little will be available at the deadline.

6 left handed defensemen is not a real problem - Brookbank is right-handed, if he makes the team. We had 6 left handed defensemen in last year's playoffs, no?

Whoa, why are we selling Oduya up the river already. Your telling me you'd rather have Corrente jump Oduya over Mottau or even White?

[NJDevs4978]

Just something else I'll bury here instead of making another thread, because we don't need another one of those:

Anybody troubled by how low the attendance announced for this game was? Especially if comps were counted into the number? (As they should be and normally would be) That's probably a STH loss of over 2K from last season, if so, score another one for marketing. Literally no one was sitting in the balcony, that's going to be alot of tickets to move, even with the discounts.

In a word: Yes.

The attendance number was 8,014 for tonight btw, I doubt comps were counted into that mix at all but even so factor in the Ranger fans that paid for tickets and you might have 7-7,500 sth's. Maybe that's why they had two different select-a-seat nights.

And given the lowest attendance number was around 12,000 last year, which would suggest around 9-10,000 sth's that'd be pretty troubling.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Hasan4978

[Triumph]

Whoa, why are we selling Oduya up the river already. Your telling me you'd rather have Corrente jump Oduya over Mottau or even White?

Oduya's UFA after this season, who knows where he goes. Especially if after being a +20 last season, Sutter throws him on the 3rd pairing for no particular reason.

[maxpower]

In a word: Yes.

The attendance number was 8,014 for tonight btw, I doubt comps were counted into that mix at all but even so factor in the Ranger fans that paid for tickets and you might have 7-7,500 sth's. Maybe that's why they had two different select-a-seat nights.

And given the lowest attendance number was around 12,000 last year, which would suggest around 9-10,000 sth's that'd be pretty troubling.

Comps go into the attendance count, it's one of the NHL's dirty little secrets. So, I would suppose every voucher cashed in on counts as 1 on the attendance, even though they didn't pay.

The second select-a-seat was a farce on a Wednesday night. They needed to hammer the open houses home because the draft party was a success, they should have had more open houses.

The attendance count leads me to believe there will be sub 10K crowds this season, and I don't know how the people in the office can look themselves in the mirror if this happens, there were a few things that pissed me off today beyond belief with the business end of the team.

For one, I was in the bar before the game, and what comes on the in-house.... a freaking commerical pushing the cheap ST's... which AFAIK, has never been shown outside the building. Especially coming off a demoralizing end to the season, I don't know how they didn't push as hard as humanly possible.

Next Monday will be an accurate count of STH's, so far we're 2K behind everyone in the league, even the Blues and 'Canes cracked 10K. The scary thing is that the effects of what's going on in the economy shouldn't have been felt on ST's until NEXT season.

Maybe it'll take them getting 9,300 for a weeknight game, in a 2 year old building, to realize how bad they've fvcked things up. It'll sure get negative press.

[devilsrule33]

In a word: Yes.

The attendance number was 8,014 for tonight btw, I doubt comps were counted into that mix at all but even so factor in the Ranger fans that paid for tickets and you might have 7-7,500 sth's. Maybe that's why they had two different select-a-seat nights.

And given the lowest attendance number was around 12,000 last year, which would suggest around 9-10,000 sth's that'd be pretty troubling.

So much for the new building being the answer. Scary what might happen if the Devils missed the playoffs one of these years. Just have to hope for a really hot start to the season and the Nets to be awful (which is very likely).

Edited September 25, 2008 by devilsrule33

[westcoastdevfan]

Personally from what we saw with scoring last year, the team does need a skill injection and dropping guys like Rupp out of the regular lineup for Vrana can only help. There are only so many games a year where we need a legit heavy and that number is dropping annually.

Bingo, this team needs something....more tough guys in not even on the radar. Please give me some more scoring. I'll leave all the over analyzing and hypotheticals to you guys, but for me any change possible is what this team really needs. If it's Vrana, Bergfors, Federov I don't care. I will take the high risk , high reward over the same ol' same ol' anyday.

[95Crash]

Next Monday will be an accurate count of STH's, so far we're 2K behind everyone in the league, even the Blues and 'Canes cracked 10K. The scary thing is that the effects of what's going on in the economy shouldn't have been felt on ST's until NEXT season.

Maybe it'll take them getting 9,300 for a weeknight game, in a 2 year old building, to realize how bad they've fvcked things up. It'll sure get negative press.

Oh, that is depressing.

[maxpower]

Oh, that is depressing.

lol, it's exaggeration for effect, because nobody knows how many partials or flexs or halfs or discounts will be moved. But, if things align right, I could definately see games under 10K this season. The balcony is the thing the kills me the most, they have to know how many STH's they have there, if you throw out the front rows, I think under 100 in both balconies *combined* might be a safe bet. Yet, they're pushing all of those as $65 face. It's just stupid and last year should have been enough to teach them that. Apparently, it won't be, and what they need is a bunch of negative "I told you so" press, which will get Newark pissed off, and make them get in the Devils' face about how they're sh!tting the bed.

Gotta hope we have a good season for multiple reasons. Gotta keep Sutter in the organization, we need someone else out of the office line of succession being involved.

[njdevil26]

This team has no marketing, no promotions, no deals worth mentioning. and I think the second or third highest ticket prices in the league??? For a team that never was able to fill the buildings on a regular basis? Someone is f*cking up hardcore or we don't know everything that's really going on.

[Cowutopia]

Maybe rookies was a bad choice of words.

Salmela would be a rookie and Greene isnt anymore he just plays like it at times. Like i said id kill to get Mottau out of the lineup to the extent that id rather go with younger guys who may make more mistakes, but have an ultimate higher upside to go with it. If the Salmela Greene pair works, and for some reason it seems Greene plays better without a stay at home guy, i think the coaching staff is going to be forced to look at breaking up the White Mottau pair, which would be a huge bonus for the team.

There is no way Salmela is ready for the NHL and no way that either of them gets put in a pairing without a veteran. I agree the bat his game is more of a skill game than a physical game but...the skill isn't there. Not yet.

I'll go so far as to agree that White-Mottau is abysmal but none of the young defensemen have proven that they can knock him out yet. I said Greene looked faster, and he did, but he didn't look like he got smarter either. I have zero faith in Greene. Zero. Oduya grew and Greene basically never did. You wonder how much talent the guy has at the end of the day, regardless of how hard he works.

I'm watching the game again to find the glowing praise for Vrana and Bergfors, their defensive game is nowhere near ready and they are only about as talented enough to play a 3rd scoring line..but our third scoring line is our checking line, so I guess they'd be on the fourth? But with Holik on the fourth...it's got to be the physical banger line, and Vrana has no place on either of those lines. Maybe, maybe Vrana could wind up on the checking line with Madden and Pando...eventually. Not this year. They'd have to groom him to play with those two guys. Seriously, finding an adequate third that can keep up with that line, think like them and play as hard, smart, and as fast as Madden and Pandolfo is like...impossible with our current assets if you're going to keep the top two scoring lines intact.

Anyway, I think I'd put Greene and Salmela together in the AHL and work on them, since I think they are the brightest defensive talent we have at the minor league level...but that would leave Brookbank with Oduya, which is awful. I have a feeling one of them will wind up with Johnny O. Brookbank is a sack.

[Cowutopia]

Martin/Salv

White/Greene

Oduya/Sal

These are the pairings I'd like to see, but realistically Mottau has a better shot than Greene and is not afraid to use it, I just wish he were faster, and I think putting Oduya with Salmela would similarly exacerbate the turnover problem. Oduya is still a young/inexperienced player, I wouldn't really want a rookie on a line with him. So I think it's going to be Oduya/Greene and White/Mottau for a while, until the other guys cook for a bit. And I think it could work, too. Oduya/Greene might turn out to be our second pair.

Mottau is not bad. He's just slow. I wish HE had taken power skating lessons with Greene this offseason.

[Cowutopia]

I will say that the Vrana-Bergfors duo has been solid in the offensive zone, despite lacking ab it on the defensive end. Sarge is right, and I noticed that too...they cycle well. I also think that of the two Vrana probably has the better shot at making it right now....the only thing you think about is size. Our team is already not very big, except for that fourth line (currently). Anyway I'd have Vrana be an extra. He had a great year last year at the AHL level and he needs a shot on a line with some talent. I wonder if he could replace Zajac, as my big problem with Zajac last year was his play away from the puck.

[NJDevs4978]

Comps go into the attendance count, it's one of the NHL's dirty little secrets. So, I would suppose every voucher cashed in on counts as 1 on the attendance, even though they didn't pay.

I never knew...well we're really in trouble then cause hundreds of people must have used vouchers at least, the lines were all 6 and 7 deep when I got there around 6:30.

The only thing the Devils have going for them as dr alluded to is they're improved this year from what they were last year, and the Nets are dead to a lot of Jerseyans, especially now that they're rebuilding for Brooklyn. Plus having more weekend games this year should help.

And njdevil26 put it very succinctly (and well) - no marketing, no promotions, few ticket deals other than the discount codes that the team has nothing to do with - the building and the team itself just will not sell forever.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Hasan4978

[Cowutopia]

Sutter was impressed with Salmela's play tonight. I don't know, I was praising him after the first but his play definitely deteriorated as the game went on.

[Sarge18]

There is no way Salmela is ready for the NHL and no way that either of them gets put in a pairing without a veteran. I agree the bat his game is more of a skill game than a physical game but...the skill isn't there. Not yet.

He may not be ready, but id gather that over the course of the season he would be a more valuable asset to the team then Brookbank and perhaps Mottau as well.

I'm watching the game again to find the glowing praise for Vrana and Bergfors, their defensive game is nowhere near ready and they are only about as talented enough to play a 3rd scoring line..but our third scoring line is our checking line, so I guess they'd be on the fourth? But with Holik on the fourth...it's got to be the physical banger line, and Vrana has no place on either of those lines. Maybe, maybe Vrana could wind up on the checking line with Madden and Pando...eventually. Not this year. They'd have to groom him to play with those two guys. Seriously, finding an adequate third that can keep up with that line, think like them and play as hard, smart, and as fast as Madden and Pandolfo is like...impossible with our current assets if you're going to keep the top two scoring lines intact.

I said it before, neither of them did anything flashy tonight that draws in attention, but its the details of their game that appear to be pro quality. Vrana's biggest problem in the defensive end was getting outsized, something that once again takes adjustment at the nhl level and only comes with experience for small players. It did not help that he spent much of his time on the ice with Green and Salamela, neither of which are physical forces on their own. Bergfors game was also suprising polished, he is never going to be a defensive expert, hes not supposed to be. But more often then not he held his own on the d side, picking up his man and making the safe plays out of the zone, he certainly did not have the same glaring errors that led to goals like he committed in the philly game.

I see hope in them over the 2 game performance, in the Philly game those two and federov were probably the best line on the team. Over both games they have continually drawn powerplay chances and have used their speed to force the other team onto their heals at time, a lot to ask of what is really an all rookie line. Their puck movement led to the 5 on 3 goal, and their overall performance as a line looks pretty good for 3 guys that have been together for less then a week.

Regarding the 4th line, I just envision it as more then a pure crash and bang line, especially if someone like Zubrus ends up there for extended periods of time. Its going to be a physically large line, no question, but the players involved are certainly capable of delivering more then just hits fights and energy. I feel that this would allow the line to become more then a 5 minute a night job that it has been for the past 3 or 4 years, and help take some pressure at least defensively off the other guys.

Anyway, I think I'd put Greene and Salmela together in the AHL and work on them, since I think they are the brightest defensive talent we have at the minor league level...but that would leave Brookbank with Oduya, which is awful. I have a feeling one of them will wind up with Johnny O. Brookbank is a sack.

Greene cant go to the AHL due to the waiver issues Brookbank is in the same situation, but is probably less likely to be picked up. Depending on what any of the new dmen do in camp, someone is probably going to get waived or traded.

[maxpower]

I never knew...well we're really in trouble then cause hundreds of people must have used vouchers at least, the lines were all 6 and 7 deep when I got there around 6:30.

The only thing the Devils have going for them as dr alluded to is they're improved this year from what they were last year, and the Nets are dead to a lot of Jerseyans, especially now that they're rebuilding for Brooklyn. Plus having more weekend games this year should help.

And njdevil26 put it very succinctly (and well) - no marketing, no promotions, few ticket deals other than the discount codes that the team has nothing to do with - the building and the team itself just will not sell forever.

Gotta move 2,000 tickets a game more than last season on "day of game/walk up" (ticketmaster) sales, just to break even now (take 2,000 off the games they couldn't sell, and you start to see the problem). And that's if the number on Monday doesn't turn out to be something ghastly, like 6,000. Their only hope is that partials and flexes (which they can't even get out there) do well. It's stuff like this that makes me happy that I decreased the amount money I "donate" to them. The office hasn't done anything to deserve it.