Just a question

[SC Devs Fan]

Assuming (and its a BIG assumption) that Clemmer and Weekes play as well as they have and the Devils are once again one of the teams that lets in the fewest goals in the league... does that knock some of the luster off Marty and add some to the defensive scheme of the team?

[mrthemike]

It should, but we know people have very selective memory.

[DevilMinder]

(checks SC Devils IP for a match to Kyydax)

[SueNJ97]

Assuming (and its a BIG assumption) that Clemmer and Weekes play as well as they have and the Devils are once again one of the teams that lets in the fewest goals in the league... does that knock some of the luster off Marty and add some to the defensive scheme of the team?

One thing, it's only in the last 2 games that NJ has won with less than 3 goals scored. They used to do that on a fairly regular basis with Brodeur around. I think that, so far, Clemmensen and Weekes have done a very good job of filling in and considering the number of guys who were out with injuries, the team has bounced back very nicely. They had the perfect excuse to tank the season - and didn't. We'll just have to see how it goes.

[SC Devs Fan]

Again, I'm not saying Clemmer is as good as Marty or Marty sucks, the question is if they keep it up of .the whole year does it mean the system is more important then the goalie.

My opinion is no, Marty has always been helped by the system but the system fails without a stellar goalie.

[devilsadvoc8]

ha ha.

Let Clemmer and Weeks do it for 70+ games year in and year out including clutch playoffs and then, and only then will I even consider taking some "luster" from Marty.

[CRASHER]

I've been wondering about this since the post-lockout rules change... with the emphasis on offense and goal scoring and pretty highlight plays being what the league wants and frowning on defense and goaltending (and looking at some of the stiff goalies that have been in the Finals since the lockout).... does an elite goalie REALLY matter anymore?? Not a knock on Marty nothing against him, but it makes you wonder how much of an asset a top 5 goalie in the league is....

and then you look at those top level goalies...

Luongo, Brodeur, Kipper, Lundqvst, Miller, Nabby.... (I'm sure I am missing one or two)

How deep have they gotten in the playoffs since the lockout

while stiffs like Giguere, Osgood and Emery are playing for Cups.....

I don't think it's a coincidence anymore

[Festus]

Actually, I think it only helps to show how great a goaltender coach Jacques Caron is and that to pst-Marty era might not be as miserable as it might have looked before.

But Marty is still be the greatest ever. They keep changing the rules - trapezoid, smaller pads, etc. it just doesn't matter.

[DuffMan4027]

ha ha.

Let Clemmer and Weeks do it for 70+ games year in and year out including clutch playoffs and then, and only then will I even consider taking some "luster" from Marty.

Agreed Marty's success with that ridiculous work load is what makes him Marty

[SueNJ97]

I've been wondering about this since the post-lockout rules change... with the emphasis on offense and goal scoring and pretty highlight plays being what the league wants and frowning on defense and goaltending (and looking at some of the stiff goalies that have been in the Finals since the lockout).... does an elite goalie REALLY matter anymore?? Not a knock on Marty nothing against him, but it makes you wonder how much of an asset a top 5 goalie in the league is....

and then you look at those top level goalies...

Luongo, Brodeur, Kipper, Lundqvst, Miller, Nabby.... (I'm sure I am missing one or two)

How deep have they gotten in the playoffs since the lockout

while stiffs like Giguere, Osgood and Emery are playing for Cups.....

I don't think it's a coincidence anymore

That's the theory of the guy running Detroit. He has said he will not pay big money for an elite goaltending, he only needs an average one and will sink his money into defense.

We will see what happens when they actually shrink the pads next season. This theory may not work anymore.

[Triumph]

That's the theory of the guy running Detroit. He has said he will not pay big money for an elite goaltending, he only needs an average one and will sink his money into defense.

We will see what happens when they actually shrink the pads next season. This theory may not work anymore.

Except that he has Nicklas Lidstrom, so it's easy for him to say this. It's totally unsustainable without Lidstrom - he is just so much better than everyone else at his position.

Goaltending is worth slightly less than it used to be, but it's still the equivalent of having one starting pitcher pitch 70-90% of your games. You can get a Cam Ward to win a Stanley Cup, but you can also get terrible pitchers to win a World Series (2006 Cardinals).

And Gigeure is not a stiff, he is a top goaltender.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Triumph

[CRASHER]

Except that he has Nicklas Lidstrom, so it's easy for him to say this. It's totally unsustainable without Lidstrom - he is just so much better than everyone else at his position.

Goaltending is worth slightly less than it used to be, but it's still the equivalent of having one starting pitcher pitch 70-90% of your games. You can get a Cam Ward to win a Stanley Cup, but you can also get terrible pitchers to win a World Series (2006 Cardinals).

And Gigeure is not a stiff, he is a top goaltender.

So wait... Detroit is good with stiff goalie and Lidstrom and JiggyPout has Pronger and Niedermayer and still looks miserable in every other playoffs and he's "elite"??

Heh

Give JiggyPout the current Devils D and he'd be lit up like the tree in my living room

[Prucenterrules]

I don't think it takes any of Marty's luster away. Just look at the PK since he's been out. Marty wins us games when we don't deserve to win. Don't get me wrong Clemmer's played great and won some games for us but until he steals wins for the Devils on a consistent basis, his success doesn't take any of Marty's luster away.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Prucenterrules

[NJDevs4978]

Has Matt Cassel's success taken any of Tom Brady's luster away? No.

It's an overused cliche but I actually do think the TEAM has stepped up post-Marty. There have been too many games the last couple years where they just sat back and let him steal two points, they haven't had that luxury now and they're starting to play better especially offensively.

[Have Another Donut]

I don't think it takes any of Marty's luster away. Just look at the PK since he's been out. Marty wins us games when we don't deserve to win. Don't get me wrong Clemmer's played great and won some games for us but until he steals wins for the Devils on a consistent basis, his success doesn't take any of Marty's luster away.

Exactly. With all the cheap penalties being called and the league inventing new rules to add to the offense/chances,

having a stud goalie-like good pitching in baseball, gives you a chance to win every game-especially when your

offense is struggling. Look at the Rangers, if it wasn't for Lundqvist they may not even make the playoffs- he's stolen plenty of points for them (a lock in the SO)

[zzpop91915]

Assuming (and its a BIG assumption) that Clemmer and Weekes play as well as they have and the Devils are once again one of the teams that lets in the fewest goals in the league... does that knock some of the luster off Marty and add some to the defensive scheme of the team?

Probably not. I mean even if the Devils are in first place, thy would want to start marty. It doesn't matter. I would still put in marty. Look at how many games he's played in the last few years. I think they will still continue to put him in even with the injury.

[DevilinLA]

We are basing all this conjecture on what.... 10 -15 games???

I don't think we can get a real perspective until a good 30-40 games, like half a season.

That's what stud goalies like Marty, Bobby, and Nabby do...they stay consistent over long periods. length

I don't care how good Lindstrom is, Ozzy still needs to maintain a minimum level of consistency to give the teams a win. Clemmer has yet to play any serious length of game sin the NHL - so we'll see.

[CRASHER]

Has Matt Cassel's success taken any of Tom Brady's luster away? No.

Unfair comparison

QB play means a zillion million times more in the NFL then goalie play does in the NHL

[Cowutopia]

My opinion is no because Marty's numbers, over all the years, have remained remarkably consistent, and low. Let's see where Clemmensen and Weekes finish.

[Triumph]

Unfair comparison

QB play means a zillion million times more in the NFL then goalie play does in the NHL

this is so incredibly not true, unless i am missing some sarcasm

Edited December 9, 2008 by Triumph

[CRASHER]

this is so incredibly not true, unless i am missing some sarcasm

no sarcasm

teams live and die when the QB goes down (ask Cincinatti)... or when the QB is upgraded (Miami, Atlanta)

the Islanders have held on, if not been better without DiPo... Florida is doing better without Vokun, Vancouver is about the same... and I think this NJ team has held on ok with a guy with my level of rebound control

[maxpower]

I'm assuming Clemmensen will be run out of the job eventually. You see, the thing with Marty is that you're punching in numbers such as Clemmer is putting up now. There is no doubt it will happen. With Clemmer, you're hoping it continues while knowing it won't. And Weekes probably can't even touch those numbers if he's hot.

I will be absolutely shocked if we hand this back to Marty as if nothing ever happened. Overjoyed, but shocked.

[NJDevs4978]

no sarcasm

teams live and die when the QB goes down (ask Cincinatti)... or when the QB is upgraded (Miami, Atlanta)

the Islanders have held on, if not been better without DiPo... Florida is doing better without Vokun, Vancouver is about the same... and I think this NJ team has held on ok with a guy with my level of rebound control

It is a lot easier to find a decent goaltender in the NHL than it is a QB in the NFL, but that doesn't make it any less important of a position in crunchtime.

Florida's doing better because Anderson is the real deal, I've seen him enough over the last two years to think it's not a fluke. The Isles have played more of a defensive system this year, plus McDonald never had a real shot till now (I've seen him shut us down twice before this season though).

It's too small a sample size for Vancouver to say that they're about the same and we're still only a game over .500 overall since Marty's injury with tough games ahead. We're not out of the woods yet just because of two great road wins.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Hasan4978

[Triumph]

that's a glib assessment of what happened. truth is carson palmer was terrible this year and just about every position on the bengals was downgraded in the offseason, whereas atlanta and miami upgraded nearly everywhere.

hockey has a lot more luck involved than football but it doesn't mean that a goalie and quarterback aren't of about equal value. macdonald and clemmensen will both return to earth at some point.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

It is a lot easier to find a decent goaltender in the NHL than it is a QB in the NFL, but that doesn't make it any less important of a position in crunchtime.

Florida's doing better because Anderson is the real deal, I've seen him enough over the last two years to think it's not a fluke. The Isles have played more of a defensive system this year, plus McDonald never had a real shot till now (I've seen him shut us down twice before this season though).

It's too small a sample size for Vancouver to say that they're about the same and we're still only a game over .500 overall since Marty's injury with tough games ahead. We're not out of the woods yet just because of two great road wins.

Have to agree about Anderson, he is a very, very good goaltender, Vonkun might have to spilt his time when he gets back.