GDT: DEVILS VS AVALANCHE- 3:00 ET

[LucifersDog]

Whatever. You only show up to post when you have a reason to blame Marty.

You think?? Doesn't he deserve some blame he is the best so they say!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[maxpower]

I also loved the zero forecheck in the second half of the third, that's a great way to score goals when you're down, let them sit in their own end with the puck.

the goalie pulling thing, not even worth complaining about, he'll never take a long 6 on 4 in his life again.

I know half the board hates Marty, but he's the reason we're 19 games up. not Lemaire

[maxpower]

yeah I hear ya, I just thought saying all we beat is cupcake teams, and when we play big teams we puss out was going a bit far. I'll tell you one thing out of all this that does trouble me is, why are we having such trouble on the road versus the west? We've only beaten Minnesota and that wasn't a very convincing win either. that to me is kinda troubling..

one thing we do have to remember is we ARE still without Martin, Zubrus, Clarkson, now Elias (for this game) .... we're kinda overachieving to begin with based on the injuries we've had to deal with. overall, I feel like we'll turn it around, and as you said.. we'll just have to wait for the playoffs!

if we're playing in the second week of May, I'll be shocked. I wouldn't be surprised if we were done within 10 days again.

I don't like this team as a playoff team. it's too grindy, is slow as sh!t defensively, not good enough 5 on 5 to be an elite team, and they basically just heavily rely on their goaltender that they play 70+ times a season. I've seen this script before. the only thing that might keep them going deep in the playoffs is the general crappyness of the East.

we also get by because there's no adaption, I think the only repeat games we play are the pack of games against the Leafs.

in the playoffs, you play the same team every night and have to adjust. we've been running with our head down into a wall for around a month now.

[adavid]

You think?? Doesn't he deserve some blame he is the best so they say!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think it's damn odd that a supposed Devils fan gets his jollies when one of our players has a not so perfect game.

Edited January 16, 2010 by NCDevsFan

[njd21]

We just have no luck against Western teams. Brodeur doesn't play very well against them and the rest of our guys can't seem to grasp the slightly different playing style of Western teams. Take out western games this year and we are 28-7-1

Let's not get carried away. Marty has beaten Western teams 3 out of 4 times in the Stanley Cup finals. The Devils only lost by 1 goal in these last couple of games against two of the better Western teams.

[Devils Pride 26]

if we're playing in the second week of May, I'll be shocked. I wouldn't be surprised if we were done within 10 days again.

I don't like this team as a playoff team. it's too grindy, is slow as sh!t defensively, not good enough 5 on 5 to be an elite team, and they basically just heavily rely on their goaltender that they play 70+ times a season. I've seen this script before. the only thing that might keep them going deep in the playoffs is the general crappyness of the East.

we also get by because there's no adaption, I think the only repeat games we play are the pack of games against the Leafs.

in the playoffs, you play the same team every night and have to adjust. we've been running with our head down into a wall for around a month now.

in a word, yes

[LucifersDog]

I think it's damn odd that a supposed Devils fan gets his jollies when one of our players has a not so perfect game.

Oh but he is Mr. Perfect just listen to him and read the local press and the Devils spin.

[maxpower]

Oh but he is Mr. Perfect just listen to him and read the local press and the Devils spin.

are you trying to be sarcastic or stupid? I'm not quite sure.

[Neutral Zone Trap]

I would say 2nd best player. Zach is the best player on the team. When someone gets injured on a clean hit, there is nothing more you can do than what Fraser did. Take him on in a fight. Anything beyond that would warrant a game ejection and possibly a suspension. No point in harming the team to get "revenge" on a guy for throwing a legal hit.

I disagree vehemently, Elias is our best forward, he is also the most skilled player by a mile.

To get revenge on a clean hit (he left his feet a little) a fight is ok, but only if you soundly beat him.

If it were me, I would have done a similar clean hit (while slightly leaving my feet) and take out Stastny, and then watch him get carted off the ice on a stretcher.

Devils showed heart at the end but couldn't catch a break, Anderson was good but he was also lucky. A different day and NJ wins 6-2.

I'm angry about that bullsh!t goalie interference call on Nieds, Anderson skated into Nieds to draw the pp. IMO Anderson should have gotten a 2 min minor for diving. He'll get run in a later game as Karma comes around, hopefully a goal is scored and it counts.

That pp cost us a goal and ultimately the game, however, our pp had plenty of opps to tie it but failed.

Credit to the Avs, they are a good team with some great young players, not especially skilled but they skate well. They've got some big bodies, they are good on the boards and play a physical game. They play their system well and trapped for around 50 minutes with a 1-4 formation.

[Neutral Zone Trap]

duh. get bertuzzi out there.

Nah, get Steve Moore out there, his elbowing puts Gordie Howe to shame, just ask Marcus Naslund.

[ThreeCups]

I disagree vehemently, Elias is our best forward, he is also the most skilled player by a mile.

Elias may be the "most skilled", but Parise is our smartest and hardest working player. For this reason, Zach is the best player on the team...

[Cowutopia]

It was a pretty strong finish. Yeah I'm not happy with the puck pressure in the last few minutes but whatever, it's the Devils. Only the first period really looked noncompetitive.

[Neutral Zone Trap]

Elias may be the "most skilled", but Parise is our smartest and hardest working player. For this reason, Zach is the best player on the team...

Disagree completely. Parise's work ethic and hustle are second to none, He does not have the talent or smarts to make passes like Elias.

Elias is the greatest player this franchise has had all time (barring net) he makes Johnny Mac look like a fourth line scrub.

Now later in time, Parise might very well develop into a player of Elias' skillset, but not now.

Just my opinion.

[HellOnICE]

if we're playing in the second week of May, I'll be shocked. I wouldn't be surprised if we were done within 10 days again.

I don't like this team as a playoff team. it's too grindy, is slow as sh!t defensively, not good enough 5 on 5 to be an elite team, and they basically just heavily rely on their goaltender that they play 70+ times a season. I've seen this script before. the only thing that might keep them going deep in the playoffs is the general crappyness of the East.

we also get by because there's no adaption, I think the only repeat games we play are the pack of games against the Leafs.

in the playoffs, you play the same team every night and have to adjust. we've been running with our head down into a wall for around a month now.

I don't think that's totally true. I think lately it's been, but not in the general scheme of things. You never seem to give credit that our entire third line is out, and we're missing an adequate 2nd line center. We're playing a tired, patchwork team...of course it's going to be grindy. The Devils haven't been fooling anyone with their inability to adequately covering for Paul Martin's loss. He means so much to this team, I'm incredibly surprised the Devils are where they are at this point in the season give his absense.

With that said, when they are healthy - this team is better than what you're mentioning. We just, seemingly, won't see a healthy rested team until after the Olympics, and just in time.

We still have the trade deadline, and the Devils defiencies are glaring enough that I'm confident that they'll be taken care of.

[maxpower]

I don't think that's totally true. I think lately it's been, but not in the general scheme of things. You never seem to give credit that our entire third line is out, and we're missing an adequate 2nd line center. We're playing a tired, patchwork team...of course it's going to be grindy. The Devils haven't been fooling anyone with their inability to adequately covering for Paul Martin's loss. He means so much to this team, I'm incredibly surprised the Devils are where they are at this point in the season give his absense.

With that said, when they are healthy - this team is better than what you're mentioning. We just, seemingly, won't see a healthy rested team until after the Olympics, and just in time.

We still have the trade deadline, and the Devils defiencies are glaring enough that I'm confident that they'll be taken care of.

other than Martin the returnees are grindy too, though. there was a point where it really looked like the "system" was clicking and they had some really good games, they've even had a couple lately, but the bulk of their games lately are grindfests that Marty wins for them or a few games, where frankly, they got lucky.

right now they're a passing team that plays like a dump'n'chase team. not a good thing... at least a dump'n'chase team keeps the puck in front of them.

I think they're overachieving and Marty is having another one of "those" years he's had lately, that should shut up the detractors.

the x-factor would be the deadline, like you said, but you never assume you're going to get someone. or assume the level of guy you're going to get. so you gotta project forward with what you have. I'm not too crazy about that, I actually felt better (much better) about the team roughly around this juncture last year, than I do now.

then Sutter started doing some of the boneheaded things that Lemaire is doing now. although I don't know if even Johhny Mac could dream up a PP like the one this afternoon

[HellOnICE]

other than Martin the returnees are grindy too, though. there was a point where it really looked like the "system" was clicking and they had some really good games, they've even had a couple lately, but the bulk of their games lately are grindfests that Marty wins for them or a few games, where frankly, they got lucky.

right now they're a passing team that plays like a dump'n'chase team. not a good thing... at least a dump'n'chase team keeps the puck in front of them.

I think they're overachieving and Marty is having another one of "those" years he's had lately, that should shut up the detractors.

the x-factor would be the deadline, like you said, but you never assume you're going to get someone. or assume the level of guy you're going to get. so you gotta project forward with what you have. I'm not too crazy about that, I actually felt better (much better) about the team roughly around this juncture last year, than I do now.

then Sutter started doing some of the boneheaded things that Lemaire is doing now. although I don't know if even Johhny Mac could dream up a PP like the one this afternoon

I think they need to be more grindy actually. I think they're missing some grind, we haven't been getting to the net as well lately.

In the grand scheme of things, If anything, maybe they can use a lot more finesse and playmaking, especially ont he second line. I think that's what you mean.

Of course they are overachieving, they've played men down all season. This is not a revelation.

You do assume you're going to get someone, because they usually get something at the deadline and this year seems as good as any to fill in the holes. Now, the problem is we don't have a full lineup to really judge what we have. There's a good chance that after the olympics will be the first time we'll have the team was "on paper" before the seasson..but the trade deadline is what? 3 days after the olympics, so that's one game (I think). I do know MENTALLY, this team will die if they don't bring in new help.

I think the White/Peters gimmick was fine for today, it actually seemed to be working somewhat. It couldn't have gotten any worse. Besides with no Clarkson/Zubrus, the Devils couldn't get anyone past those hulking defensemen to get to the net.

They don't need to be killers right now, they need to get into the playoffs, which thank god they started out so well this season despite the injuries. The fundamentals of this team are good, we have very good players, we have a great coach, but are missing 1 or 2 pieces. I think most teams, save Chicago, can say that too.

Look where Pittsburgh was this time last year too. We got a long way to go, and we haven't even seen a full roster yet.

Edited January 16, 2010 by HellOnICE

[maxpower]

I think they need to be more grindy actually. I think they're missing some grind, we haven't been getting to the net as well lately.

In the grand scheme of things, If anything, maybe they can use a lot more finesse and playmaking, especially ont he second line. I think that's what you mean.

Of course they are overachieving, they've played men down all season. This is not a revelation.

You do assume you're going to get someone, because they usually get something at the deadline and this year seems as good as any to fill in the holes. Now, the problem is we don't have a full lineup to really judge what we have. There's a good chance that after the olympics will be the first time we'll have the team was "on paper" before the seasson..but the trade deadline is what? 3 days after the olympics, so that's one game (I think). I do know MENTALLY, this team will die if they don't bring in new help.

I think the White/Peters gimmick was fine for today, it actually seemed to be working somewhat. It couldn't have gotten any worse. Besides with no Clarkson/Zubrus, the Devils couldn't get anyone past those hulking defensemen to get to the net.

They don't need to be killers right now, they need to get into the playoffs, which thank god they started out so well this season despite the injuries. The fundamentals of this team are good, we have very good players, we have a great coach, but are missing 1 or 2 pieces. I think most teams, save Chicago, can say that too.

Look where Pittsburgh was this time last year too. We got a long way to go, and we haven't even seen a full roster yet.

the PP stuff was asinine. when you put hulking nobodies in front of the net, you're basically playing 4 on 4 because no one has to respect them. all of this while our best forward is a garbageman playing on the halfboards. and people wonder why Parise has done nothing on the PP all year, yet dominates 5 on 5, but can't get a shift anymore against anyone other than checkers. and then the replacing of Bergfors with PELLEY? when Elias was available was hilarious.

[ThreeCups]

Disagree completely. Parise's work ethic and hustle are second to none, He does not have the talent or smarts to make passes like Elias.

Elias is the greatest player this franchise has had all time (barring net) he makes Johnny Mac look like a fourth line scrub.

Now later in time, Parise might very well develop into a player of Elias' skillset, but not now.

Just my opinion.

Elias is obviously one of the best players in franchise history aside from Marty, if not the best player. (I would include Stevens and Nieds in this conversation as well for sure) I would say the talent for Zach is there NOW. Going into today's game Zach had 300 points in 371 career games for an average of .808 points/game. Elias has 732 points in 853 games for an average of .858 points/game. Nearly identical numbers. Also take into consideration that Elias played on the "A-Line" with Arnott and Sykora which was one of the most dominant and productive lines in the league for a few seasons. If you look at recent history:

2006-2007 Elias: 69 points (75 GP-.92 pts/game) Parise: 62 points (82 GP-.76 pts/game)

2007-2008 Elias: 55 points (74 GP-.74 pts/game) Parise: 65 points (81 GP-.80 pts/game)

2008-2009 Elias: 78 points (77 GP-1 pt/game) Parise: 94 points (82 GP-1.1 pts/game)

Elias total: 202 points in 226 GP 67.3 pts/season average .89 pts/game average over the 3 year span

Parise total: 221 points in 245 GP 73.6 pts season/average .90 pts/game average over the 3 year span

Again, these numbers are eerily similar. To say "Now later in time, Parise might very well develop into a player of Elias' skillset, but not now." is just silly to me...but everyone is entitled to their opinion. In the words of Jay-Z: "Men lie, women lie, numbers don't."

EDIT: I did not include +/-, but this category would lead towards Zach...

Edited January 17, 2010 by ThreeCups

[Sickman]

I think they need to be more grindy actually. I think they're missing some grind, we haven't been getting to the net as well lately.

In the grand scheme of things, If anything, maybe they can use a lot more finesse and playmaking, especially ont he second line. I think that's what you mean.

Of course they are overachieving, they've played men down all season. This is not a revelation.

You do assume you're going to get someone, because they usually get something at the deadline and this year seems as good as any to fill in the holes. Now, the problem is we don't have a full lineup to really judge what we have. There's a good chance that after the olympics will be the first time we'll have the team was "on paper" before the seasson..but the trade deadline is what? 3 days after the olympics, so that's one game (I think). I do know MENTALLY, this team will die if they don't bring in new help.

I think the White/Peters gimmick was fine for today, it actually seemed to be working somewhat. It couldn't have gotten any worse. Besides with no Clarkson/Zubrus, the Devils couldn't get anyone past those hulking defensemen to get to the net.

They don't need to be killers right now, they need to get into the playoffs, which thank god they started out so well this season despite the injuries. The fundamentals of this team are good, we have very good players, we have a great coach, but are missing 1 or 2 pieces. I think most teams, save Chicago, can say that too.

Look where Pittsburgh was this time last year too. We got a long way to go, and we haven't even seen a full roster yet.

Perspective.

[Neutral Zone Trap]

Elias is obviously one of the best players in franchise history aside from Marty, if not the best player. (I would include Stevens and Nieds in this conversation as well for sure) I would say the talent for Zach is there NOW. Going into today's game Zach had 300 points in 371 career games for an average of .808 points/game. Elias has 732 points in 853 games for an average of .858 points/game. Nearly identical numbers. Also take into consideration that Elias played on the "A-Line" with Arnott and Sykora which was one of the most dominant and productive lines in the league for a few seasons. If you look at recent history:

2006-2007 Elias: 69 points (75 GP-.92 pts/game) Parise: 62 points (82 GP-.76 pts/game)

2007-2008 Elias: 55 points (74 GP-.74 pts/game) Parise: 65 points (81 GP-.80 pts/game)

2008-2009 Elias: 78 points (77 GP-1 pt/game) Parise: 94 points (82 GP-1.1 pts/game)

Elias total: 202 points in 226 GP 67.3 pts/season average .89 pts/game average over the 3 year span

Parise total: 221 points in 245 GP 73.6 pts season/average .90 pts/game average over the 3 year span

Again, these numbers are eerily similar. To say "Now later in time, Parise might very well develop into a player of Elias' skillset, but not now." is just silly to me...but everyone is entitled to their opinion. In the words of Jay-Z: "Men lie, women lie, numbers don't."

I respect your opinion, but I'll still go with my silly opinion. I'd also like to see Parise put up the #s Elias did in the age of "clutch and grab" aka "the dead puck era"

Offense is much easier now than it was in the late 90's/pre-lockout.

In the words of me "numbers only tell a small part of the story"

PS, who is Jay-Z ?

[ThreeCups]

I respect your opinion, but I'll still go with my silly opinion. I'd also like to see Parise put up the #s Elias did in the age of "clutch and grab" aka "the dead puck era"

Offense is much easier now than it was in the late 90's/pre-lockout.

In the words of me "numbers only tell a small part of the story"

PS, who is Jay-Z ?

I would love to see what Parise could have done on a line with Sykora and Arnott at that time. I am sure he would have had similar results. Other than numbers, what can you base an opinion on? Just observation? Numbers in this case are the best indicator. I hope the Jay-Z question was sarcastic...

[mikeford]

Mike Mottau needs to not see the ice anymore.

[maxpower]

I would love to see what Parise could have done on a line with Sykora and Arnott at that time. I am sure he would have had similar results. Other than numbers, what can you base an opinion on? Just observation? Numbers in this case are the best indicator. I hope the Jay-Z question was sarcastic...

he wouldn't have. that line was all Elias/Sykora's chemistry and Arnott's clearing of space and cleaning up the garbage.

the guy can't play the halfboards on the PP effectively, there's no way he would click on that type of line.

[Devils Pride 26]

Elias is more skilled with carrying and passing the puck, probably a better shooter too. Zach is a great finisher and extremely hard worker who beats defenders with his speed. Both are great defensively too. You really can't compare them, they play very different styles.

[ThreeCups]

Chemistry can be developed. This is a pointless debate regardless. I will predict that Zach finishes his career with a decent amount of points more than Elias when his career is over.