Triumph Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 detroit 'lacks toughness' and has for years - how've they been doing recently? i agree that the team doesn't have that many physical players, and clarkson being out doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaDevsFan Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 detroit 'lacks toughness' and has for years - how've they been doing recently? i agree that the team doesn't have that many physical players, and clarkson being out doesn't help. When they were winning Cups, they still had tough guys like McCarty and a nastiness with Chelios back there even guys like Draper that would play with an edge get in your face go to the net get dirty. This team has NOBODY LIKE THAT! ANd last year the toughness of Pitt actually won out. They beleive it or not are a pretty physical team. They are actually one of the top hitting teams in the league, And several of their forwards play with an edge, an edge this team is missing. Guys like Letang, Kennedy, Orpik have an edge? Who on this team plays with an edge except Salvador most of the time?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 whatever, you can backwards narrate all you like and think that pittsburgh won last year because of their toughness. i think the devils need some more physical players but not at the expense of power plays against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim777 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I disagree completely with the whole "if Stevens made the hit we'd be praising it" angle. I was personally never giddy to see Scott nearly kill someone who didn't see it coming, but that's the way he played. This hit was indeed a lot like a Stevens hit, but to me it also seemed like he was coming from behind Salmela. Stevens used to line you up from right in front of you. I voted 'not sure', but i certainly don't like plays/hits like this. I don't like hits to the head, period, and this was one of them. It's legal, but it ain't right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaDevsFan Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 whatever, you can backwards narrate all you like and think that pittsburgh won last year because of their toughness. i think the devils need some more physical players but not at the expense of power plays against. Nobody is saying at the expense of powerplays against and nobody is "backwards narrating" the fact is the teams I mentioned, teams that have won recently all had players who were physical and had players who would do what it takes to get dirty, win , play with an edge to them. Detroit, Anaheim, Pittsburg all had or have guys like that. I already mentioned them. If the Devils had a toughness to them maybe things like that last night wouldnt have happened in the first place therefor no retribution would have been neccessary. Parise getting cross checked in the face wouldnt happen (like he was before or manhandled by guys like Pronger) other teams already know there will be no comeback from the Devils so they take the liberties they want. This team doesnt even take the body regularly, even their 4th line doesnt throw the body around. They dont go to the net. I love the Devils but they have been a softer team for a few years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eztarget Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) You guys DO realize Scott Stevens made a living doing this? Anyone Devils fan who loved Stevens and says this hit was "dirty" is the biggest hypocrite in the world. Edited February 9, 2010 by Eztarget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyelias Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 It was a shoulder but it was late, therefore it was dirty. If a Flyer got laid out AFTER scoring a goal and the crowd got all pissy, you bet your a$$ there would've been a penalty called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaDevsFan Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 You guys DO realize Scott Stevens made a living doing this? Anyone Devils fan who loved Stevens and says this hit was "dirty" is the biggest hypocrite in the world. If you read through this thread you would see that the majority here have said it was ok maybe a bit late but by the NHL rules OK. As far as Stevens goes look at his hits as others have said here as well, 99 % were straight up he was in front of you and you were coming across with your head down. This hit was from a back checking Carter who caught him from the blind side the back side of his shoulder. NOt straight up face to face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eztarget Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 If you read through this thread you would see that the majority here have said it was ok maybe a bit late but by the NHL rules OK. As far as Stevens goes look at his hits as others have said here as well, 99 % were straight up he was in front of you and you were coming across with your head down. This hit was from a back checking Carter who caught him from the blind side the back side of his shoulder. NOt straight up face to face. The vote doesn't show that. Most say it was dirty. He hit a guy that had literally just shot the puck. If he was a split second earlier the hit would have been the same but the goal probably would have been prevented. It's called defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adavid Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 It made me more worried than mad. If it had been dirty, my gut reaction would have been different I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwindog Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 OK -- I admit I haven't read many of the posts here -- it's latish -- but it's a nice one. Timing was undoubtedly off... but Stevens for sure could have gotten that off on a hit now and then...what can you do. I liked it. I did... sorry folks. My response is: suck it up -- it's part of the game. What was Salmela thinking? He wasn't is the thing of it....or he was and it was worth it to him...you know? I dont know what else to tell anyone who's all honked off about it. It's hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneykoIsGod Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 OK -- I admit I haven't read many of the posts here -- it's latish -- but it's a nice one. Timing was undoubtedly off... but Stevens for sure could have gotten that off on a hit now and then...what can you do. I liked it. I did... sorry folks. My response is: suck it up -- it's part of the game. What was Salmela thinking? He wasn't is the thing of it....or he was and it was worth it to him...you know? I dont know what else to tell anyone who's all honked off about it. It's hockey I can only think of two things that make this hit noteworthy. 1) It was from behind ... sorta. 2) Salmela got hurt. You can say this about a lot of the hits that have come under scrutiny lately (and I have), but if Salmela got right back up this hit is a non-issue. If I had a nickel for every time Parise get clobbered like this after a goal, I'd have a sh!tload of nickels. Where are the threads calling for the other guys' heads after each one of those? It ain't pretty, but it's hockey. If hockey was supposed to be pretty, Mike Ricci never woulda made the cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilNurn Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) The vote doesn't show that. Most say it was dirty. He hit a guy that had literally just shot the puck. If he was a split second earlier the hit would have been the same but the goal probably would have been prevented. It's called defense. Dirty does not equal illegal. Read the posts. Edited February 9, 2010 by DevilNurn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwindog Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) Absolutely correct, I dont want to hear well we are trying to win a game etc etc. The fact is to lose is one thing to lose and PANSY out is another. The only guy out there that plays with an edge in my opinion is Savie, and if the goof Peters wasnt going to I wish Savie would have. I am not for blind siding or hurting Carter, but challenge him straight up and MAKE/FORCE him to go with you. Take the 2 minute instigator and move on, but dont let the other team think well we can pull crap like this on New Jersey they wont answer back... P.S. and I did think the play was questionable from the standpoint of the location of Carter as was mentioned. And also the follow through. The initial hit was forearm but the follow through ended with ELBOW clearly extended. Legal I guess but borderline dirty and needed to be answered for. Oh bullsh!t -- hits = good goonery = stupid. making someone answer for something is just nonsense - it never works for one thing -- someone tries to goon it up and gets a turtle and the Devils goon looks flacid and helpless and the team looks all the worse for a halfassed response. Or you get a Bertuzzi -- fights are fun but trying to prove something is counter-productive when it's premeditated -respond int he moment OK -- but work for a response and it's for sh!t and says nothing but poor discipline and stupid Flyers kind of goon mindset. The response is to score - to win the game and say it's all part of hockey. and Stevens ALWAYS followed through with the elbow rising. The Lindros hit had an elbow that rose that high after contact. The Karia hit was that "late" EDIT: OK he didn't actually always but minimally he'd shake the dude off his arm like he was a booger. Edited February 9, 2010 by Darwindog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwindog Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I can eat deer sh!t and not puke --- but that picture... man - enough to make a dog sick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Versus actually did give a couple of updates during the telecast. The last one they gave was near the end of the game when they mentioned he was walking in the locker room I believe. Thanks, PaDevsFan. I obviously missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwindog Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) Thanks, PaDevsFan. I obviously missed that. Jerry - part of me agrees with you too -- these hits are out and out dangerous. The fact it's one guy choosing to hit another like that is disturbing... but to me it's equally as disturbing when gymnasts do these insane tricks and far too many amateurs end up para- or quadriplegics. Jockeys pushing each other around at high speed, close range on skitish animals that weight over a ton? Competition is messed up and impairs judgement... the hits aren't as bad as the poor dude falling unprotected to the ice. I dont know what to tell you... Edited February 9, 2010 by Darwindog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Jerry - part of me agrees with you too -- these hits are out and out dangerous. The fact it's one guy choosing to hit another like that is disturbing... but to me it's equally as disturbing when gymnasts do these insane tricks and far too many amateurs end up para- or quadriplegics. Jockeys pushing each other around at high speed, close range on skitish animals that weight over a ton? Competition is messed up and impairs judgement... the hits aren't as bad as the poor dude falling unprotected to the ice. I dont know what to tell you... I can accept that sports are dangerous and terrible accidents will happen. But banning head shots is a no-brainer (pun intended). People who are worried that such a rule would reduce the physicality of the game are just afraid of change. There will still be hitting and the game will still be great. As much as I love Scott Stevens, the Lindros hit still makes me cringe when I watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I voted not sure, I thought Carter probably could have let up on the hit, and not trucked salmela, and the NHL needs to elimate hit to the head, teams like Philly seem to go head hunting knowing its not illegal, even if it is dirty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtikl Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 But it's not a simple clean shoulder check on a guy who just had his head down, it's a heads-up, hell-bent-for-leather hit from behind on a player who was screened. If you slow it down frame-by-frame, you'll see that the actual point of contact was behind Anssi's left ear, and what broke his nose and teeth was being flipped up in the air and doing a face-plant on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim777 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I guess at the end of the day what bothers me more than the hit is that Carter wasn't made to pay for it. I hate hits to the head, and would love to see them outlawed. But somebody needs to throw down with Carter and hand him a beating for that, and that never happened. And I was waiting for it; my son was asking me who I thought was going to 'beat him up' for that hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Crash Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I don't see how this was in any way Salmela's fault. Like some have pointed out, the hit was from behind. So I voted "dirty" -- but not obscenely dirty, not worthy-of-a-suspension dirty. Just dirty. Stevens had a few of those during his career too. I'm not sure how I feel about the Devils not challenging Carter after that. But it does bother me that the Devils aren't anywhere near as physical a team as they used to be. I'd like for them to be able to hang with Philly on a physicality level as well as on a talent level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eztarget Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) I voted not sure, I thought Carter probably could have let up on the hit, and not trucked salmela, and the NHL needs to elimate hit to the head, teams like Philly seem to go head hunting knowing its not illegal, even if it is dirty... Come on it's not just Philly. Guys get hit like that all over the league. Anyone who as ever played this game (on ice) knows that you get involved in hits like that where you have no idea it's going to be that hard. I've hit and been hit by guys when you think the other guy sees you and they don't. And the funny thing is that's probably the first hit Carter has thrown all year. The guy just is soft and we (Philly fans) were just as shocked as you that he actually hit someone. Edited February 10, 2010 by Eztarget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtikl Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Not trying to single out Carter. Don't have a problem with Philly as a team. Actually Salmela boarded Mike Funk in December 2008, got himself a 6-game suspension (which Lou made him serve right away before calling him up) and Funk suffered his third concussion in 2 years and his second season-ending concussion. So it's not like Salmela's "pure as the driven snow" himself. It's hockey, guys collide at high speed and sometimes guys get hurt. My beef is with the NHL and its officials and its disciplinarian. I looked at the frame-by-frame and saw Checking-from-Behind and a nasty fall after the hit. There's already a rule in place in the NHL and it wasn't enforced. So my particular beef is with the NHL saying it's going to deal with head shots and then doing nothing even when it already has the tools in place. Carter's hit is just a particular case-in-point. But the insurance companies need to intervene here. We can protest the head shots all we want, our words will fall on deaf ears. When the insurance companies see this hit, and others like it, and tot up the costs, and increase the NHL's coverage premiums by tens of millions of dollars per team per year to cover the long-term cost of the Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy that results from all these head shots, THEN the NHL will sit up and take notice. Until big bucks are involved, nothing is going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Come on it's not just Philly. Guys get hit like that all over the league. Anyone who as ever played this game (on ice) knows that you get involved in hits like that where you have no idea it's going to be that hard. I've hit and been hit by guys when you think the other guy sees you and they don't. And the funny thing is that's probably the first hit Carter has thrown all year. The guy just is soft and we (Philly fans) were just as shocked as you that he actually hit someone. EZ I disagree, Philly hasmore suspensions than anyteam this year for illegal hits, add the Richards check that was a carbon copy of the Carter hit.. and i think they are head hunting... but the richards/carter hits were legal.. Again, they need to outlaw ALL hits to the head.. why is it illegal to obstruct w/ a skater but OK to take another guys head off?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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