What Should Rangers Do

[Matteau#32]

not trying to make myself feel better about the Rangers. Just pointing out the Devils managed to make the play-offs only ONCE in 8 years when 16 out 21 teams qualified.

[pattyelias]

And your reason for making this point at this moment in time is what exactly???? Go back to Long Island or Jersey or wherever you are from.

[Don]

And I'd like to point out that the Rangers missed the playoffs 11 times in 13 years when only 2 teams missed the playoffs (42 thru 55).

[Matteau#32]

And your reason for making this point at this moment in time is what exactly???? Go back to Long Island or Jersey or wherever you are from.

you are telling someone on a message board to go back to Long Island or New Jersey? That makes a lot of sense. But it is Brooklyn if you must know.

Yes Whiting, the 40's and 50's were a rough time. But if you knew anything about the history of the NHL, you'd know back then there was no draft. Everything was based on Territorial Rights, so the Leafs and Habs had first priority for all the Canadian Players, which is why they won most of the Cups back then. The Wings got lucky with Howe, but before their recent success had only won 5 cups.

[Don]

You see, this is why I tune in to watch the Rangers lose almost as often as I watch a game to see the Devils win.

The arrogance and gall ("if you knew anything about the history of the NHL") of the typical Rangers fan, coupled with their complete lack of tact, sportsmanship or even common decency - the Rangers fate is all kharma.

[pattyelias]

Hey............hockey is different in MSG

[bg.]

first off...sather is not getting fired, so lets forget about that one. being that he is going to be here next year an beyond (most likely not as coach) i think it really makes sense for him to sell. he was very good at that in edmonton, and with the players he has to deal, and the money he has to make deals happen, he's certainly has the tools. based on their current "pace" the rangers are also looking at another top 10 pick - right now #7, but realistically anywhere from 5-12.

secondly, the writing is on the wall for a few "un-rangerlike" deals to happen in the next 3 weeks. here are my odds of players going in the other direction.

kovalev - 90%. i think alex is a goner.

rucinsky - 50%. he's actually been very good, and at 30 or so a guy i'd like to see on this team for the next 2-3 seasons, but he's someone who can help many teams.

barnaby - 50%. see rucinsky.

simon - 50%. say what you want, he can play a regular shift and provide toughness. most guys like him can only do the second. for what he would cost (not much - mid round pick at best), if a team is looking for an upgrade in the size department this is a no-lose move.

leetch - 25%. this would be the hardest to swallow.

[msweet]

When the season began, I was dreaming of a thread like this in March. But to have it happen in Febuary, just leads me to say one thing:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Risky]

Sorry, Derek, but they deserve what they're getting. They ruined the salary system and may be one of the central reasons that we won't have hockey for months (if we're lucky) next year. Not even the Avs or the Wings would have thought of offering $9mil/year contracts like they were fortune cookies. It broke the system and now we're going to have to live with it while they search for the fix. This is a textbook display of how NOT to run a professional sports team and I hope everyone in the league is watching. When the Rangers fire Sather as GM and coach and hire someone who has a clue about player development and how to build a team of complementary parts, then you'll have the playoffs back. But not until that happens. Until Sather is gone from EVERY aspect of this organization (except cleaning the toilets and folding Bobby Holik's underpants), the Rangers will be playing April 10th rounds of golf in the Sunshine State every year.

[bg.]

can someone tell me what hurts more?

a) giving bobby holik 5 years at 45 million when other teams (devils and toronto) were offering 5 years at 40.

B) giving jarome iginla 2 years at 13 million?

lets think about that?

fine, holik's salary is inflated by a million per season, that i will grant you, however lets think about a few things. what types of salaries does he impact? UFA's ONLY! what he makes has no basis in an arbitration hearing of ANY kind.

iginla got his mega-deal after ONE outstanding season. at the time patrick elias (a player who had put up big numbers for more seasons then iginla) got a deal for about 2 million per season LESS.

now i'm sure one of the smarter of you might bring up joe sakic. yea, that was a move that blows the salary structure out of wack, however in baseball the a-rod contract was ONE team, an abbaration, the fact that there was a team willing to match this contract suggests a MARKET, so the avs' deserve blame as well. not to mention the flyers and their offer to gratton and the hurricanes (and redwings) with their offer to fedorov deserve some blame here as well.

there are several fingers that can be pointed here, you cannot only look at new york.

Edited February 17, 2004 by bg.

[Risky]

That argument is ridiculous, BG, and exactly what I'd expect from a Ranger apologist. Who cares how he got awarded the contract?

It's about the market. When you see a Bobby Holik making $9mil/year, not only do you close out a massive amount of teams from being able to sign Free Agents, but you also make players like Markus Naslund say "hey, I'm 4x the player Bobby Holik is, thus, I should be making more money."

It screws the entire NHL economy. The Rangers pioneered it when they started signing washups like Bure and Lindross (granted, Bure was already earning the $9mil) and overvaluing players like Holik. There's no other sport where the Kovalev deal could have EVER happened. That was a salary enema and nothing else and THAT is what is wrong with the Rangers and THAT is what is wrong with the NHL.

[bg.]

if my arguement is (as you say) "ridiculous", you are saying the NHL salary structure would not have been thrown out of wack if the devils or toronto gave holik 8 per for 5 years as they were offering - equallly ridiculous if you ask me.

you can cut it any way you want, but naslund and holik are apples and oranges, they really cannot be compaired in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

i didn't make the rules up, however you do need to follow them when looking at things like this.

[BlueSkirt]

When the season began, I was dreaming of a thread like this in March. But to have it happen in Febuary, just leads me to say one thing:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, msweet -- me too !

It's the kind of thought you keep buried -- until you know it is inevitable.

And no way did I think they would eliminate themselves this early in the year.

What's very surprising is that there was no countdown this year.

It all happened so fast !

7 years and counting

Maybe next year Messier gets back into the playoffs ?

[Triumph]

Iginla put up his numbers with Craig Conroy and Dean McAmmond. Yeah, okay though, he wasn't that good.

Holik's contract does not throw the salary structure out of whack, but what it does is raise the price for role players, which is really what the Rangers have been doing for years. Mike Keane, Tim Taylor, and so on, all the overrated role players they tried to sign and stick into the Ranger system. It never worked and they drove the price for them up.

And the Sakic deal was ridiculous, and while it probably could not be cited in arbitration, it certainly could be cited by parties not willing to go to arbitration. It couldn't've been 4 seasons later that Jason Allison was demanding 8 million per and refused to go to arbitration.

[Jerrydevil]

The NHL's screwed-up economics is not all the Rangers' fault. As Devils' fans, we'd like to think it is, but it isn't.

[SueNJ97]

OK, I've brought this up before and I am NOT a Ranger apologist.

The Blues actually started the practice of blowing the salary structure of hockey apart. They did it by signing other teams' RFAs to offer sheets. Just because the salaries were lower than what we see today, and just because NJ got Stevens out of one of those moves, doesn't change the fact that St. Louis, and NOT the Rangers, actually blew the salary structure of the NHL apart.

Actually, Messier has a slightly different theory from mine. He says the Blues were the second step. He says the NHL had a salary cap. They had Wayne in Edmonton making less than a million a year, and Wayne was never going to ask for more than that while he was an Oiler. And nobody was ever going to ask for more than Wayne. Then Wayne was traded to LA and his salary went up. I don't know that I agree with him, though. Eventually Wayne would have wanted more, he'd already had his contract renegotiated once.

As someone noted, the majority of the Rangers' deals don't impact salary arbitration, which is where most RFA salary increases happen. But they do impact RFA holdouts, and they do make it more likely that players will go to unrestricted free agency, especially players from small markets. But that doesn't mean that they are the only people to blame.

I think we are conflicted here because as much as we enjoy seeing the Rangers lose part of the problem here is that there is the perception that they have helped run up the salary structure for NOTHING. For pity's sake, if you are going to help wreak havok on the salary structure of an entire sport, win SOMETHING, ANYTHING, not just the award for complete FUTILITY.

[LOTCB]

Derek21, your hope has to be that Mr Jame$ Dolan looks at the other team that occupies M$G, the New York Knicks, and realize that making moves with a plan in place like Isiah Thomas is doing gets positive feedback from their fans..maybe Dolan will see that and realize the Rangers should do the same thing.

[bg.]

sue you made some excellent points!

when you had gretzky (and he was still gretzky) there was indeed a "salary cap"

right now in the NHL there is no one player at that level.

[Derek21]

Clown, that's the problem. Dolan doesn't care about the hockey team. He's proved that by ignoring them all this year. I am praying for a long lockout right now.

[LOTCB]

Clown, that's the problem. Dolan doesn't care about the hockey team. He's proved that by ignoring them all this year. I am praying for a long lockout right now.

I agree with you Derek21, but how long did we hear that Dolan didnt care about the Knicks? Then Spree goes off on Dolan, then Isiah comes in and things are getting done...

Edited February 17, 2004 by Legend Of the Clown Banner

[pattyelias]

Did Melrose pick the Rags to win the cup this year?

[SueNJ97]

Did Melrose pick the Rags to win the cup this year?

He definitely picked them to win the Atlantic and he may have picked them to go to the Finals. But I don't think he picked them to win the Cup.

[Devildude]

LONG LIVE SATHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matteau#32]

Here's the thing with salaries. When the CBA was signed in 94-95, it was viewed as a HUGE victory for the owners. Back then, few players continued to play at elite levels into their mid-30's and the belief was teams would not pay big money for most UFA's as their abilities would quickly erode. Well, fast forward 9 years, and voila players now are able to play at elite levels into their late 30's. Sports Nutrition and Exercise Science have made tremendous advancements in the past 10 years. 10-15 years ago, how many gym's and health clubs were around? A handful? Now, almost every town has a gym. How many GNC's were around? How many today? How many different supplements could you get 10 years ago? Not many, I know because I used to take supplements. Today, the market is oversaturated with nutritional supplements. Players are taking better care of themselves and their bodies than the last generation of players. We also did not see an influx of stars during the 92-97 draft classes that should have pushed more of the older players out of the league.

They wanted to control RFA's and figured the compensation would be too steep a price. We know about the Sakic deal from the Rangers. What people forget is the Fedorov deal with Carolina. He had an incentive that he would be paid $25MM if the team made the conference finals. Carolina knew they would never make the conference finals that year even with Federov, so it was moot point on their end. They also figured Detroit would not want to pay $25MM as they were Cup Contenders. Well, Detroit matched the offer sheet and won the cup and paid Federov his $25MM bonus. These are the types of contracts which can be used in arbitration hearings. UFA contracts can not.