Neb00rs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 In what world are 15 teams finishing below us next season? They're playing pretty far over their heads as it is, and I think you're in the minority in thinking we're icing a significantly better team next year. I think after next year's draft, we're looking at a potential competitor. We've already given up or lost the opportunity to draft top ten twice, why can't we just draft a few times without everyone wanting to throw our picks around. And the time we chose to give up the opportunity to draft in the top 10, we got a team-changing player in return that probably guarantees that we have at least an outside shot at the playoffs for the next few years. We do have to build through the draft, but if we are able to get a young first line RW for a mid-first rounder and Merrill I'd probably do it. As far as us being better next season, if Lou can add a forward or two in the off-season and Cory plays like this again, we will absolutely be a bubble team. As it stands we are about 5 wins from a playoff spot and we are 18-11-4 since the start of January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 In what world are 15 teams finishing below us next season? They're playing pretty far over their heads as it is, and I think you're in the minority in thinking we're icing a significantly better team next year. I think after next year's draft, we're looking at a potential competitor. We've already given up or lost the opportunity to draft top ten twice, why can't we just draft a few times without everyone wanting to throw our picks around. It wouldn't take a giant shift for us to go from the 7-8 that we're in now to 14-15 in a season. Schneider is good enough by himself to win some more games + our young defenders are going to have another season under their belts + no start of the season with DerpBoer. Depending on how the forwards are retooled, 10-12 points (about the difference right now) is not impossible. That said, unless we make a trade for some sort of impact forward or draft someone who is able to contribute immediately, I think where we're at this year (7-8), if not lower (3-6), is more likely. I'd bet on us being lower than higher next year, no matter what sort of kool aid Lou tries to pass along. More guys a year older, a pretty paltry FA crop, and no offensive players really looking like they're going to take a step forward. It remains to be seen how the offseason plays out, but the importance of this offseason can't be overstated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) It wouldn't take a giant shift for us to go from the 7-8 that we're in now to 14-15 in a season. Schneider is good enough by himself to win some more games + our young defenders are going to have another season under their belts + no start of the season with DerpBoer. Depending on how the forwards are retooled, 10-12 points (about the difference right now) is not impossible. That said, unless we make a trade for some sort of impact forward or draft someone who is able to contribute immediately, I think where we're at this year (7-8), if not lower (3-6), is more likely. I'd bet on us being lower than higher next year, no matter what sort of kool aid Lou tries to pass along. More guys a year older, a pretty paltry FA crop, and no offensive players really looking like they're going to take a step forward. It remains to be seen how the offseason plays out, but the importance of this offseason can't be overstated. The FA crop isn't so bad that the Devils are not going to be able to improve from Ryder and Havlat. We will overpay but we will add some scoring. We also could be trading a D for a C/RW. Lou has more than hinted he is going after two forwards. I don't see any reason to think we will finish 3-6 next year. There is little argument for why we would be significantly worse. Edited March 23, 2015 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The FA crop isn't so bad that the Devils are not going to be able to improve from Ryder and Havlat. We will overpay but we will add some scoring. We also could be trading a D for a C/RW. Lou has more than hinted he is going after two forwards. I don't see any reason to think we will finish 3-6 next year. There is little argument for why we would be significantly worse. Ryder and Havlat don't play as it is. Merrill and Gelinas are borderline regressing, and I'm not sure anyone is willing to give up Larsson or Severson. We signed a forward who can finish last offseason and significantly improved in goal, and we're still 15 points behind last seasons total with ten left. I don't know what kind of magic it's taking to make this tremendous leap next year. Build through the draft these next two summers, see what impact free agency can make (although I'm going to guess a limited one), and we'll have a mature core of talented d with Cory in his prime, and then we'll talk about trading away mid round draft picks for top six forwards. I'm as generally optimistic as anybody, but realistically, I can't see this group finishing that much higher this season, if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Ryder and Havlat don't play as it is. Merrill and Gelinas are borderline regressing, and I'm not sure anyone is willing to give up Larsson or Severson. We signed a forward who can finish last offseason and significantly improved in goal, and we're still 15 points behind last seasons total with ten left. I don't know what kind of magic it's taking to make this tremendous leap next year. Build through the draft these next two summers, see what impact free agency can make (although I'm going to guess a limited one), and we'll have a mature core of talented d with Cory in his prime, and then we'll talk about trading away mid round draft picks for top six forwards. I'm as generally optimistic as anybody, but realistically, I can't see this group finishing that much higher this season, if at all. Well Mr. 'The Sky is Falling', I am not sure what 'tremendous leap' you are referring to. It's already been pointed out how finishing in the 14/15th spot would not be that much of a leap. And what does Ryder and Havlat not playing have to do with anything? They were brought here to score and didn't. It won't take much to improve from that. Your point only heightens my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 no more 30+ patching work for the love of god. We need to get younger and get core guys. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Well Mr. 'The Sky is Falling', I am not sure what 'tremendous leap' you are referring to. It's already been pointed out how finishing in the 14/15th spot would not be that much of a leap. And what does Ryder and Havlat not playing have to do with anything? They were brought here to score and didn't. It won't take much to improve from that. Your point only heightens my own. My argument isn't the sky is falling, my argument is simply that there will not be 15 worse rosters than the Devils' next year. Building this team back into a competitor is going to take time. I wouldn't be surprised if we were picking 5th or 6th next year. Your argument is that this team can use free agency to improve over guys who aren't playing. I don't even understand the point you're trying to make there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 My argument isn't the sky is falling, my argument is simply that there will not be 15 worse rosters than the Devils' next year. Building this team back into a competitor is going to take time. I wouldn't be surprised if we were picking 5th or 6th next year. Your argument is that this team can use free agency to improve over guys who aren't playing. I don't even understand the point you're trying to make there. Now you're just BSing. Your argument is that it would be a 'leap' to think the Devils would finish in the 14th/15th spot next year. Again, even if you ignore the point multiple times, it has been pointed out why the Devils could easily finish higher next year. If you don't understand how FAs can improve over guys who aren't playing (who were expected to play), then you really are lost. Ryder and Havlat aren't sitting because we found something better, they are sitting because they underperformed/sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The FA crop isn't so bad that the Devils are not going to be able to improve from Ryder and Havlat. We will overpay but we will add some scoring. We also could be trading a D for a C/RW. Lou has more than hinted he is going after two forwards. I don't see any reason to think we will finish 3-6 next year. There is little argument for why we would be significantly worse. There's no guarantee any trade Lou may or may not make improves this team significantly aside from the dream sort of deals where we get a gamechanger like Kessel or similar name espc when our stalwarts like Elias are regressing significantly as they age. Lou's FA spending since the salary cap was instituted has been mostly a complete failure, aside from Jagr and Cammalleri, neither of which have been in a playoff game in a Devils uniform and both of which were available when there were stronger talent pools in UFA. Its going to take commitments in years to bring in guys that could potentially improve this team's offense and there are too few guys even worth considering that on this upcoming market. 14-15 is still out of the playoffs or barely in. Does anyone want to give Justin Williams or even Antoine Vermette $5M plus? You're right, we will have to overpay, but considering how sparse this crop is in terms of what we need (1st and 2nd line talent, not more plugs) we will be competing with every other middling franchise that needs to upgrade their forwards. We have to get lucky with whomever is brought in and thats something this franchise hasn't really experienced in respect to FAs.This team is likely going to be in exactly the same position they're in right now a year from now, on lower end of the table wondering if we're picking in the later top 10 or early teens. I don't think it will be significantly worse, but I can easily see it being worse than being better simply b/c of the amount of unknowns at this moment (who is brought in, injuries, etc). I think our future has a silver lining and we are finally accruing some assets to get better, but I think significant improvement is two seasons away at minimum and barring something extraordinary (A massive trade/winning the lottery), we could very easily be worse before we're better. Teams around us are getting better and the East is getting stronger on whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) no more 30+ patching work for the love of god. We need to get younger and get core guys. Amen to this, amen. ----------------------------- Also - thinking this team will be a bubble team next year is laughable. Cory is having a historic season. He'd have to perform as well, if not better, for the Devils to be in the discussion next year. Get real. 2016 first should be absolutely 100% off-limits. Edited March 23, 2015 by Devilsfan118 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 2016 first should be absolutely 100% off-limits. I mostly agree, but its wholly dependent on the return and terms of the deal. If Phil Kessel is offered and the price is a 2016 first and a prospect (and not much more than that outside of a mid-round pick) its something that absolutely has to be considered. A 2016 pick can also be made conditional, i.e. if we don't make the playoffs the pick doesn't transfer. There's also plenty of time to trade and acquire another pick or picks to get back into the first round. There's got to be flexibility with it IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) No, even a protected pick is no good - the Devils quite simply cannot afford to trade any 1st round picks for anything that's 25 or older. They have too many organizational holes to do that. You make that move on the upswing, like the Islanders tried to do with Vanek, and now the 1st round pick they're giving up in that deal isn't going to be a high one. There's little indication that the Devils are on the upswing. They have a great goaltender in his prime and some good youngsters, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Devils, even without Jagr, Zidlicky, and Clemmensen are still the oldest team in the league. They have zero future at center - they've got a bunch of guys who might be 3rd line centers. Edited March 23, 2015 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Amen to this, amen. ----------------------------- Also - thinking this team will be a bubble team next year is laughable. Cory is having a historic season. He'd have to perform as well, if not better, for the Devils to be in the discussion next year. Get real. 2016 first should be absolutely 100% off-limits. Not only its obvious we need to get younger. We often saw "patch work" getting vets. That would take over roles of our "future core" and players we NEED to develop so badly. I feel Josefson is playing pretty well but for how long as he been jerked around sitting and not playing because there was an old vet who was obviously not gonna be part of our future, and well we were not contender or in the playoffs so the "win now with vets" was not making sense either. of course it was mostly cause the coach was leaning towards vets real bad and would sit rookies for 4 months after one turnover. But i don't feel this whole thing was handled as good as it could have been in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Which free agents are ex-Devils? That's who we're going after! C'mon Lou, make it happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Paul Martin, Johnny Oduya, come on downnnnnn "General Manager to Ex-Devil. Ex-Devil, come in please. General Manager calling Ex-Devil. General Manager to Ex-Devil, talk to me Johnny." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) You laugh, but if the Devils trade away a young D this offseason, Martin/Oduya will make a serviceable replacement. Edited March 23, 2015 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) There's no guarantee any trade Lou may or may not make improves this team significantly aside from the dream sort of deals where we get a gamechanger like Kessel or similar name espc when our stalwarts like Elias are regressing significantly as they age. Lou's FA spending since the salary cap was instituted has been mostly a complete failure, aside from Jagr and Cammalleri, neither of which have been in a playoff game in a Devils uniform and both of which were available when there were stronger talent pools in UFA. Its going to take commitments in years to bring in guys that could potentially improve this team's offense and there are too few guys even worth considering that on this upcoming market. 14-15 is still out of the playoffs or barely in. Does anyone want to give Justin Williams or even Antoine Vermette $5M plus? You're right, we will have to overpay, but considering how sparse this crop is in terms of what we need (1st and 2nd line talent, not more plugs) we will be competing with every other middling franchise that needs to upgrade their forwards. We have to get lucky with whomever is brought in and thats something this franchise hasn't really experienced in respect to FAs.This team is likely going to be in exactly the same position they're in right now a year from now, on lower end of the table wondering if we're picking in the later top 10 or early teens. I don't think it will be significantly worse, but I can easily see it being worse than being better simply b/c of the amount of unknowns at this moment (who is brought in, injuries, etc). I think our future has a silver lining and we are finally accruing some assets to get better, but I think significant improvement is two seasons away at minimum and barring something extraordinary (A massive trade/winning the lottery), we could very easily be worse before we're better. Teams around us are getting better and the East is getting stronger on whole. There is a decent selection of middle-of-the-road forward FAs-to-be. If we can bring in two forwards who can score 15-20 goals each we already would be looking at 20-25 more goals scored on the season over Ryder and Havlat. Furthermore, if Boucher/Matteau can add 15 goals, that is a step over a Gionta or Zubrus. We really failed at scoring goals this season. I really doubt that happens again, at least not so acutely.The only issue is that it's the same hope again: i.e. are the FAs we sign going to bomb like those two? The second question is: is Cory going to have another .905 month next year? If not, we could definitely be a playoff team. Edited March 23, 2015 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokar Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 There is a couple of players I would like to see the Devils signed, but the one thing on don't want to see signed is a player to a no trade clause. Also I would like to see no player signed for more than 3 yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Now you're just BSing. Your argument is that it would be a 'leap' to think the Devils would finish in the 14th/15th spot next year. Again, even if you ignore the point multiple times, it has been pointed out why the Devils could easily finish higher next year. If you don't understand how FAs can improve over guys who aren't playing (who were expected to play), then you really are lost. Ryder and Havlat aren't sitting because we found something better, they are sitting because they underperformed/sucked. I pointed out that after significantly improving this past offseason, we're still on pace to finish exactly where we were last year. It takes a lot more than one signing to push this team to the middle of the pack. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm saying your point is flat wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I pointed out that after significantly improving this past offseason, we're still on pace to finish exactly where we were last year. It takes a lot more than one signing to push this team to the middle of the pack. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm saying your point is flat wrong. This is what you don't seem to understand: we are middle of the pack with Cory playing his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Lou will wait till the market settles and he can add parts responsibly. I would rather give the kids a chance and draft a scorer. As long as Oates isn't the HC we should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 No matter who we sign this off season the affect will be minimal at best. This team, especially up front, have a ton of issues that no Band-Aid signing can fix. I fully expect this team next year to be at best a playoff bubble team and at worst a draft lottery team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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