GDT: Devils at Ducks, 3/1/2020 8pm Eastern

[DevsMan84]

10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

 

Nope. You brought up the state of the team 5 years ago.

And there's no underlying motivation here. I may have blamed Lou for the way he handled his UFAs and propped the way Shero did it but as soon as he went against that i blamed him last summer for not taking care of Hall during the summer. I understand the situation was tricky but still, at least im consistant and not biased. its not about who does what, its about what's been done

I pointed out how we are still in the same shape standings wise now as we were 5 years ago.  You are smart enough to know that is quite a bit different than posting the fvcking 2015 roster for God knows how many times now and say "LoOk At WhAt We HaD tO wOrK wItH tHoUgH!"

Brand new GM, brand new coaching staff, brand new players and they still couldn't get this team to move up the standings with the exception of a 2 players playing the best season of their careers.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

12 hours ago, CHIP72 said:

True, good point.  In Kansas City the Scouts' ownership was split too many different ways and didn't have deep enough pockets.  In Denver, there were three different owners in six years.  In both Kansas City and Denver, there were frequent general manager and coaching changes, and also many trades.  (Of course, the Devils still made many coaching changes even after moving to north Jersey and even after they became a serious Stanley Cup contender, so maybe that wasn't a problem, LOL.)  Though we make light of it now, these are the reasons why Wayne Gretzky called the Devils a Mickey Mouse organization in late 1983.

Even though John McMullen did bring ownership stability when he bought the team and moved it the Meadowlands, it still took a few more years until the Devils finally got true organizational stability after Lou Lamoriello came in as team president and general manager.

I do remember when the Devils first arrived, that they pretty much said no more making the same mistakes that the Rockies made...no first-round picks being dealt for Dave Cameron and Bob Lorimer (the Islanders seemed to be the best at taking advantage of the Rockies...that pick would turn into Pat LaFontaine).  They intended to build slowly and surely, and sure enough, pieces started to make their way onto the squad (and after that awful 1983-84 season, they began to make slow progress).  

It's been discussed here, but Lou actually inherited more talent than many realize...and it took a while for the team to truly make progress under him, after that 1987-88 playoff run...they spun their wheels for a while.  Lou collected a lot of nice ingredients (and in some trades gone wrong, some not-so-nice ones, like Sylvian Turgeon), but needed someone to prepare and cook the meal, which is what Lemaire did (Lou's Plan A called for Herb Brooks to be the one, but that obviously went pretty badly).  Some less patient owners might have canned Lou before the team turned around...I think if Lemaire hadn't worked out, Lou's probably shown the door shortly thereafter...McMullen was already making snarky little comments about Lou in the early 90s and appeared to growing impatient, and Lou was clearly a bit miffed by that.  

[SterioDesign]

5 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I pointed out how we are still in the same shape standings wise now as we were 5 years ago.  You are smart enough to know that is quite a bit different than posting the fvcking 2015 roster for God knows how many times now and say "LoOk At WhAt We HaD tO wOrK wItH tHoUgH!"

Brand new GM, brand new coaching staff, brand new players and they still couldn't get this team to move up the standings with the exception of a 2 players playing the best season of their careers.

Well as long as there's people like you saying "all i know and care about is that we only made the playoffs once in the last 5 years" as if that's a failure on the management and not just common sense that we simply cannot rebuild and recover from that roster that quickly... i'll bring up the "look what we had to work with though"

It's really that simple.

It's like if you let your old house break down for decades not renovating or investing in the long-term, you're just patching everything yourself with duct tape. It gets to the point it's all rotten, there's mold everywhere, the isolation, the foundation is cracked, the electrical / heating and plumbing system are all fvcked. You have no savings and insurance either. But hey, you focused on "at least i have a roof over my head" and nothing else for years ignoring the future.

But the future is now and then you get to a point where you HAVE to do something cause you can't live there anymore if you don't. But you basically have to start from scratch having to fix EVERYTHING

Well if you don't have any money, can't get a loan and not many ressources...You'll have to go at it piece by piece and wait for deals. Replace the pipes.... then eventually the electrical... eventually the isolation etc etc 

It's the same damn thing. the only difference is that the Devils have money. but saddly unlike renovating a house.. you can't just go and buy a first line winger, a top D etc even if you have all the money in the world. The piping has to WANT to go to your house. So you gotta add pieces every summer and make smart trades.. which takes a LOT of time to get right when you start with nothing.

And to make things worst as you're struggling to rebuild the house. You kids and wife are constantly whining that it's been 5 years and there's still no hot water for showers and say that the house is just as sh!tty as it was 5 years ago cause they dont have hot water and only focus on that aspect. How would you NOT point out like "i know im sorry but at least now we have heat in our rooms and the ceiling is not leaking anymore... it's a process but we'll get there". 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by SterioDesign

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

Well as long as there's people like you saying "all i know and care about is that we only made the playoffs once in the last 5 years" as if that's a failure on the management and not just common sense that we simply cannot rebuild and recover from that roster that quickly... i'll bring up the "look what we had to work with though"

It's really that simple.

It's like if you let your old house break down for decades not renovating or investing in the long-term, you're just patching everything yourself with duct tape. It gets to the point it's all rotten, there's mold everywhere, the isolation, the foundation is cracked, the electrical / heating and plumbing system are all fvcked. You have no savings and insurance either. But hey, you focused on "at least i have a roof over my head" and nothing else for years ignoring the future.

But the future is now and then you get to a point where you HAVE to do something cause you can't live there anymore if you don't. But you basically have to start from scratch having to fix EVERYTHING

Well if you don't have any money, can't get a loan and not many ressources...You'll have to go at it piece by piece and wait for deals. Replace the pipes.... then eventually the electrical... eventually the isolation etc etc 

It's the same damn thing. the only difference is that the Devils have money. but saddly unlike renovating a house.. you can't just go and buy a first line winger, a top D etc even if you have all the money in the world. The piping has to WANT to go to your house. So you gotta add pieces every summer and make smart trades.. which takes a LOT of time to get right when you start with nothing.

And to make things worst as you're struggling to rebuild the house. You kids and wife are constantly whining that it's been 5 years and there's still no hot water for showers and say that the house is just as sh!tty as it was 5 years ago cause they dont have hot water and only focus on that aspect. How would you NOT point out like "i know im sorry but at least now we have heat in our rooms and the ceiling is not leaking anymore... it's a process but we'll get there". 

 

And after 5 years of rebuilding Shero comes into this season last summer saying that they are ready to compete NOW.

Well guess what happened?  That shiny new house that Shero built is a terribly-built deathtrap.

This is why I called for a complete teardown again.  However, I am having my doubts on rebuilding this new house when key pieces are iffy, we have interim "contractors" building the house (GM, HC), stuck with an overpriced water heater that seems to leak more than it actually heats water, and have to depend on a piece of equipment that is not tested yet (MB29).

(FFS I hate replying to one of your patented sh!tty analogies with a similar sh!tty analogy.  I will never do this again)

[Crisis]

Yeah that one was really bad.

[SterioDesign]

35 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

And after 5 years of rebuilding Shero comes into this season last summer saying that they are ready to compete NOW.

Well guess what happened?  That shiny new house that Shero built is a terribly-built deathtrap.

This is why I called for a complete teardown again.  However, I am having my doubts on rebuilding this new house when key pieces are iffy, we have interim "contractors" building the house (GM, HC), stuck with an overpriced water heater that seems to leak more than it actually heats water, and have to depend on a piece of equipment that is not tested yet (MB29).

(FFS I hate replying to one of your patented sh!tty analogies with a similar sh!tty analogy.  I will never do this again)

there's no need for a tear down. We're adding good pieces, it's just not enough yet. And its about timing and luck. We got the BEST pieces we could possibly get with the draft. If those were McDavid and Matthews instead of Hughes and Nico it's not the same situation anymore.

Which is why you can't put a definite timeline as to when things will officially be better, it's all about who you're adding and how it's working out.

I just honestly don't understand how everyone cannot understand that it would possibly take a long time to recover. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by SterioDesign

[DevsMan84]

35 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

there's no need for a tear down. We're adding good pieces, it's just not enough yet. And its about timing and luck. We got the BEST pieces we could possibly get with the draft. If those were McDavid and Matthews instead of Hughes and Nico it's not the same situation anymore.

Which is why you can't put a definite timeline as to when things will officially be better, it's all about who you're adding and how it's working out.

I just honestly don't understand how everyone cannot understand that it would possibly take a long time to recover. 

We look at teams like Buffalo who have been rebuilding forever and see that can happen with us.

Eventually there has to be a payoff.  Constantly acquiring picks and prospects when we still cannot draft well (outside the first overall) and cannot even develop our own prospects does not bode well.

[Nicomo]

52 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

We look at teams like Buffalo who have been rebuilding forever and see that can happen with us.

Eventually there has to be a payoff.  Constantly acquiring picks and prospects when we still cannot draft well (outside the first overall) and cannot even develop our own prospects does not bode well.

It hasn’t really been long enough to judge our drafts for the last handful of years. Granted, we haven’t hit any home runs like Pastranak, but he wasn’t exactly lighting it up immediately either. I think we’ve found some nice pieces outside the #1’s in Bratt and Mac. And hopefully Ty Smith. Most of the others like all our young 67’s we’ll have to wait and see. 

[SterioDesign]

4 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

We look at teams like Buffalo who have been rebuilding forever and see that can happen with us.

Eventually there has to be a payoff.  Constantly acquiring picks and prospects when we still cannot draft well (outside the first overall) and cannot even develop our own prospects does not bode well.

Yeah.. that can actually happen because there's never any guarantee in building a team. You gotta land the right pieces and get the right mix of coaches and players. You require luck, timing and the stars to align more often than not for that. All you CAN do is make "good" decision in order to put yourself in the best position for success. You make smart signings, you acquire assets in case you need them for trades or draft, you try to keep your important players and you develop your players.

You think the Sabres has been sucking forever because... they don't deserve it or cause they havent been trying? lol No. It just didn't happen.

I understand the disappointment of cheering for a struggling team, it's frustrating obviously. But I don't understand the frustration coming from fans entitlement. 

Take most current successful teams and change "one" thing in their "recipe" (either one player becoming who he is or not signing a certain player or wtv) and suddenly they may not have a cup. It's incredibly hard to win in this league. So rather than feeling that we're entitled to success and get pissed off when it's not coming fast enough maybe let's just support the team by understanding the process and being patient.

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by SterioDesign

[DevsMan84]

 

11 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah.. that can actually happen because there's never any guarantee in building a team. You gotta land the right pieces and get the right mix of coaches and players. You require luck, timing and the stars to align more often than not for that. All you CAN do is make "good" decision in order to put yourself in the best position for success. You make smart signings, you acquire assets in case you need them for trades or draft, you try to keep your important players and you develop your players.

You think the Sabres has been sucking forever because... they don't deserve it or cause they havent been trying? lol No. It just didn't happen.

I understand the disappointment of cheering for a struggling team, it's frustrating obviously. But I don't understand the frustration coming from fans entitlement. 

Take most current successful teams and change "one" thing in their "recipe" (either one player becoming who he is or not signing a certain player or wtv) and suddenly they may not have a cup. It's incredibly hard to win in this league. So rather than feeling that we're entitled to success and get pissed off when it's not coming fast enough maybe let's just support the team by understanding the process and being patient.

 

Asking the team to not be a fvcking disaster is being entitled?  Again, interim everything, our two number 1 overalls are questionable about being the best in their draft class, a $9M waste on defense, goaltending that hinges on a likely-to-be overworked rookie and an ownership who can't decide if they want to win now or want to rebuild again.

I am not asking to win a cup anytime soon, but it would be nice to not be one of the bottom 5 teams in the league like we have been for 4 of the past 5 seasons.

[mfitz804]

28 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Asking the team to not be a fvcking disaster is being entitled?  Again, interim everything, our two number 1 overalls are questionable about being the best in their draft class, a $9M waste on defense, goaltending that hinges on a likely-to-be overworked rookie and an ownership who can't decide if they want to win now or want to rebuild again.

And don't forget the chicken fingers at the arena leave a lot to be desired too!

[DevsMan84]

4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

And don't forget the chicken fingers at the arena leave a lot to be desired too!

About 1-2 times a season I see pictures posted in the FB groups where someone got chicken tenders and inside is still raw.  Gross.

[Nicomo]

20 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

 

Asking the team to not be a fvcking disaster is being entitled?  Again, interim everything, our two number 1 overalls are questionable about being the best in their draft class, a $9M waste on defense, goaltending that hinges on a likely-to-be overworked rookie and an ownership who can't decide if they want to win now or want to rebuild again.

I am not asking to win a cup anytime soon, but it would be nice to not be one of the bottom 5 teams in the league like we have been for 4 of the past 5 seasons.

Who is better than Hughes from his draft class? He’s tied with Dach for 1st in points. Hughes is getting a bit more ice time (16:00 >14:11), but Dach is also 19, and is already 6”4 200 lbs. Dach has also been lucky enough to play with Patrick Kane and Alex DeBrincat at times. 

[DevsMan84]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

Who is better than Hughes from his draft class? He’s tied with Dach for 1st in points. Hughes is getting a bit more ice time (16:00 >14:11), but Dach is also 19, and is already 6”4 200 lbs. Dach has also been lucky enough to play with Patrick Kane and Alex DeBrincat at times. 

Dach will likely have a better career than Hughes.

Petterson, Makar and Heiskenen are all better than Nico.

[mfitz804]

21 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

About 1-2 times a season I see pictures posted in the FB groups where someone got chicken tenders and inside is still raw.  Gross.

The thing I don't get about that is, there's no way I thought they were cooking them at the arena, I figured they were fully cooked and frozen and they just heat them up. Mind blown. 

19 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Who is better than Hughes from his draft class? He’s tied with Dach for 1st in points. Hughes is getting a bit more ice time (16:00 >14:11), but Dach is also 19, and is already 6”4 200 lbs. Dach has also been lucky enough to play with Patrick Kane and Alex DeBrincat at times. 

I don't know who will be better, but I am pretty sure Jack will never be 6'4" or 200 lbs. 

[Nicomo]

23 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Dach will likely have a better career than Hughes.

Based on what?

[Nicomo]

7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I don't know who will be better, but I am pretty sure Jack will never be 6'4" or 200 lbs. 

Point is guys like Dach and Kakko (who’s also already 19) are probably closer to the size they’ll be as grown men. Hughes otoh still has some filling out to do. 

[DevsMan84]

12 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Based on what?

From what I have seen of him so far.  I don't need analytics to see he is more talented than given credit for.

[Nicomo]

Just now, DevsMan84 said:

From what I have seen of him so far.  I don't need analytics to see he is more talented than given credit for.

Who’s underrating him? He was a lottery pick, and is one of the few players from that draft class to step right into the NHL. I just think 60 games is WAY too early to be speculating on entire careers already. 

Leon Draisaitl is the best player in the league right now, but he didn’t exactly light it up immediately. 60 points through his first 110 GP. 

[DevsMan84]

6 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Who’s underrating him? He was a lottery pick, and is one of the few players from that draft class to step right into the NHL. I just think 60 games is WAY too early to be speculating on entire careers already. 

Leon Draisaitl is the best player in the league right now, but he didn’t exactly light it up immediately. 60 points through his first 110 GP. 

And he was the 3rd pick in his class and easily the best player from his draft year.

Hughes is on pace for 39 points in his first 110GP.  Ouch.

[mfitz804]

31 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Point is guys like Dach and Kakko (who’s also already 19) are probably closer to the size they’ll be as grown men. Hughes otoh still has some filling out to do. 

I mean he can hit the gym and all, but he's nearly 19. he's not going to be a big guy, ever. 

[Nicomo]

8 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

And he was the 3rd pick in his class and easily the best player from his draft year.

Hughes is on pace for 39 points in his first 110GP.  Ouch.

Pastrnak is pretty close. 

Then Dach is on pace for even less, because he’s played 2 more games. Again, who knows what will happen with these kids. 

[Nicomo]

11 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I mean he can hit the gym and all, but he's nearly 19. he's not going to be a big guy, ever. 

Well, no, and he doesn’t need to be. His biggest asset his his skating. He just needs to get stronger on the puck, and along the boards. 

[mfitz804]

38 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Well, no, and he doesn’t need to be. His biggest asset his his skating. He just needs to get stronger on the puck, and along the boards. 

Agreed. I’m just saying, he’s pretty much the size he is going to be as a man, maybe give or take 10-15 pounds if he does hit the gym.

Edited March 5, 2020 by mfitz804

[Neb00rs]

46 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed. I’m just saying, he’s pretty much the size he is going to be as a man, maybe give or take 10-15 pounds if he does hit the gym.

I mean just speaking in terms of what's biologically possible he could (and will) gain well more than 10-15 pounds though it will take time and lots of surplus calories to maintain - especially given the cardio that hockey players get. That said he probably only needs 10-15 lbs to make himself safe out there. I'd like to see him put on 10 lbs this summer in a combination of muscle and some fat - he's young and has no real lifting experience which means he can synthesize muscle much faster than experienced lifters. He should be at around 4000 calories or more a day all summer.

As much as Jack will deny it, his size and weakness have changed his game a lot this year. What's promising is that the last few games he's showed a tendency to use his body a little bit more, to lean in to players and drive. This year has made him tougher. But for the bulk of the season Jack has been manhandled out there, it's made him impatient with the puck and a ragdoll on the boards. I haven't actually minded the getting rid of the puck quicker part, you kind of have to do that in the NHL, and it's helped him avoid hits, hits he was taking early on and that could have seriously injured him. I'm a little worried about the occasions in which he throws passes into his teammates' skates but considering that he manages to also make some elite passes out there, I'll attribute that to some sort of weird funk rather than a lack of hockey IQ...for now.

Yeah, as I think Nicomo pointed out above, there's only even three players from the 2019 draft class playing in the NHL right now and all of them have about the same stats with Kakko's defensive numbers maybe being the outlier in that they're a bit extra bad. Dach probably has been the best this year but making projections about any of these players full careers is a rather inane endeavor. Jack is still 18, and players of his size and age who play in the NHL are exceedingly rare.  Even Kane was 19 for most of his rookie season, though yeah, he sucked a lot lot less than Jack.