Love the Excuses

[LetsGoDevils]

Brodeur

Well, the Flyers solved their goaltending problems, so they should have no problems come playoffs.

[Derek21]

Eh. I do feel the Devils get away with some stuff. They are the least penalized team in the league. That's been for a while now. Check the records.

I thought I saw a couple of things that could've been called today. But still, the Devils just systematically took apart the Flyers. What are they upset about? They lost by four goals and their D looked like a pile of traffic cones on some of those goals off the forecheck.

I could see being upset if it's close. But the Devils dominated the Flyers the last three games by a combined score of 13-3.

If I'm a Devil fan, I'd want them in the first round. Their D cannot deal with your forwards. Your team speed is too much. And Brodeur dwarfs anything they have in net.

P.S. bruins is right. Niittymaki should have started. I don't know what Hitchcock sees in Esche. He is shaky.

[elperro]

Eh. I do feel the Devils get away with some stuff. They are the least penalized team in the league. That's been for a while now. Check the records.

You are correct, the Devils are the least penalized team in the league. But it's just not plausible that the NHL would allow its referees to let the Devils get away with more than other teams. The league is coming off of a lockout year, and is desperate to attract new fans. The rules of the game have been drastically altered, in order to allow for more scoring and a more wide-open game. Prior to the lockout, the Devils were (unfairly, I believe) the target of much of the "Hockey is boring" stuff. The Devils are in the bottom 1/4 of the league in attendance, both at home and on the road. Put simply, the Devils are not the darlings of the NHL (and that's an understatement) - the powers that be don't care if the Devils win, and in fact would probably be happier if they didn't. WHY, then, would the NHL just allow the Devils to get away with more than other teams? The NHL is a business, so what interest is served by allowing the Devils to clutch/grab/hook/whatever, when the rest of the league can't? What interest (NHL interest, that is) is served by the Devils winning unfairly?

Have you considered, perhaps, that the Devils play a disciplined game and simply take fewer penalties than other teams?

[Gomer23]

You are correct, the Devils are the least penalized team in the league. But it's just not plausible that the NHL would allow its referees to let the Devils get away with more than other teams. The league is coming off of a lockout year, and is desperate to attract new fans. The rules of the game have been drastically altered, in order to allow for more scoring and a more wide-open game. Prior to the lockout, the Devils were (unfairly, I believe) the target of much of the "Hockey is boring" stuff. The Devils are in the bottom 1/4 of the league in attendance, both at home and on the road. Put simply, the Devils are not the darlings of the NHL (and that's an understatement) - the powers that be don't care if the Devils win, and in fact would probably be happier if they didn't. WHY, then, would the NHL just allow the Devils to get away with more than other teams? The NHL is a business, so what interest is served by allowing the Devils to clutch/grab/hook/whatever, when the rest of the league can't? What interest (NHL interest, that is) is served by the Devils winning unfairly?

Have you considered, perhaps, that the Devils play a disciplined game and simply take fewer penalties than other teams?

I agree with your post, and, I bet if you asked him, so would Derek, there is just two ways to look at every situation. You can't blame someone who disagrees and finds excuses, that's what makes fans passionate.

Welcome aboard, dude, perfect timing for the playoffs, nothing better!

[Devils731]

I would tend to say the teams the Devils play get away with more stuff than the Devils do because the refs are human and have trouble giving such a huge PP advantage to the Devils. So they end up either calling touchy stuff on the Devils or looking the other way when the opponents do something illegal just so that they "let the players play" while of course they're affecting the game through their bad job. Obviously this is just a generalization and isn't true every game but I think it happens more than a few times.

[Derek21]

I agree with your post, and, I bet if you asked him, so would Derek, there is just two ways to look at every situation. You can't blame someone who disagrees and finds excuses, that's what makes fans passionate.

Welcome aboard, dude, perfect timing for the playoffs, nothing better!

In response to elperro's post, I would say yes in regard to discipline. They are very disciplined compared to other teams. However, I do feel their reputation helps sometimes. I've seen instances where they let things go that usually get called against other teams.

[sammyk]

Yah but Derek, why would the refs do that if the Devils are 'hated'? Are they secretly fans of the Devils?

[Derek21]

Yah but Derek, why would the refs do that if the Devils are 'hated'? Are they secretly fans of the Devils?

Didn't you know Sammy that "everyone has a little Devil in them?"

[elperro]

I agree with your post, and, I bet if you asked him, so would Derek, there is just two ways to look at every situation. You can't blame someone who disagrees and finds excuses, that's what makes fans passionate.

Welcome aboard, dude, perfect timing for the playoffs, nothing better!

Thanks, good to be here (lurked all year on some other boards, just found this one last week). Of course you can't blame someone who disagrees (hell, sports would be no fun without disagreements - why do you think sports talk radio is so popular), but I've seen the "the only reason the Devils are the least penalized team is because they get away with more" arguments pop up recently on just about every NHL board I read, and it just makes no sense.

In response to elperro's post, I would say yes in regard to discipline. They are very disciplined compared to other teams. However, I do feel their reputation helps sometimes. I've seen instances where they let things go that usually get called against other teams.

And I've seen instances where the refs have let things go against other teams that would usually get called (the Atlanta debacle a few weeks back comes to mind). My point is that, over an 82 game season, those things even out.

[bruins4777]

one thing about the esche situation. against the rags esche was supposed to play but had the flu or something. so i guess it was a makeup game for hitch, although a dumb choice nonethelss.

also since the break, entering the first 4-1 devs loss with esche in net. niity's save percentage since the olympic break was something like 89.2 and esche's 91.5. i dont' know the updated stats for the past 3 games in fact up to the rags game esche's save percentage was .3 higher than niity's and he had a sub 3 gaa, niity's was above 3. i don't know updated stats.

also last week the flyers alternated wins and losses...kinda, but an interesting note was esche was in net for all wins and niity for all loses.

so despite many flyers fans calling for esche's head all season(including since the olympic break) one could arge esche has been better than niity overall.

many flyers fans simply choose to constantly rehash the 11 game road trip where niity was absolutly incredible. however since then i feel calling him inconsistent is a stretch in itself. esche gets blasted, because when he's bad HE'S BAD. and when he's good, flyers fans just don't want to acknowledge it. because all year the longest streak where he's been very good is something like 4 games. niity had that entire stretch which they remeber. flyers fans are constantly drunk. so short stretches don't fit their memories.

go look at the stats. plus esche is just so unlucky. in the one rags game where he was chased for allowing 3 goals on 7 shots, not a single one was his fault (this was the kasparturtle game) in another one where he allowed 2 on 11 in the middle of the first. he was the reason it wasn't 5-0 at that point, yet one iffy goal and he gets bashed. montreal 5 on 15 including 2 in the 3rd for a 5-3 loss. both goals were gagne's fault, one missed coverage by gags the other gags turns it over in the blue crease. yet flyers fans blame him because esche reacted awkardly after the one goal. there are games all over the year like this for esche.

now i'm not saying who should be starter for the playoffs, both have been remarkebly inconsistent all year. but esche hasn't been half as bad as flyers fans say and niity hasn't been half as good.

one final note, other than the "writing on the wall" comment, many fans and reports have noted that esche has been some what of a prick all season long, thinking much too highly of himself.

Edited April 17, 2006 by bruins4777

[Steven M.]

And I've seen instances where the refs have let things go against other teams that would usually get called (the Atlanta debacle a few weeks back comes to mind). My point is that, over an 82 game season, those things even out.

Exactly. Where was the love for the Devils by the refs when Gomez was laying on the ice in pain versus Atlanta?

I can hear Doc right now.." and PLAY CONTINUES! "

It's easy to forget these things when the breaks are going our way during this incredible streak.

Edited April 17, 2006 by DevilsFanSteve30

[LucifersDog]

The Flyers defense is not there, without Peter the offense is not as good. I beleive Clark would rather play the Rangers so the word was out. Clark is hoping the standings work out for that match up in the playoffs. Playing the Sabres wouldn't be good for the Flyers., if that were the match up. The Flyers didn't put up much of a game on either ice against the Devils. No effort.

[SueNJ97]

Exactly. Where was the love for the Devils by the refs when Gomez was laying on the ice in pain versus Atlanta?

I can hear Doc right now.." and PLAY CONTINUES! "

It's easy to forget these things when the breaks are going our way during this incredible streak.

Although, as Ranger fans will point out to you, Jagr was bleeding (and it wasn't just a spot, it was a flow) from a high stick a few games ago, and play continued. I forget what game it was in. I think the Pens game. So it happens to all teams at one point or another. Although I think Jagr, unlike Gomez, could see.

[PaDevsFan]

Bottom line is pretty simple. Yes the Devils are the least penalized team in the league, and yes they are the most disciplined. As others have stated, why in Gods name would the league who is trying to get scoring up and draw people let the Devils and only the Devils get away with clutching and grabbing?? It is a ridiculous theory, and to use reputation is bad too. Come on these Devils are not the Devils of a few yrs ago. The smaller quicker talented forwards are just giving slower bigger D men fits it is plain and simple. Are the Devils the best team in the league?? NO, but with the talent they have and the Goaltender there is no reason this team cannot make a legitimate run, (if they dont get too cocky, and keep playing their style) Which I am sure Lou will keep reminding them of!!.

Again for Cryers fans, please stop with the excuses your team is talented no doubt, and with Forsberg on the Ice they are a different team. But really the last 3 games 13-3??? Would Forsberg have miraculously turned that situation around? WOuld he have played Defense along side of Hatcher or Dejardinis??? Come on The Flyers defense is slow and their goaltending is suspect at times that is why they lost these games NOt Clutching and Grabbing Not because no Forsberg and not because the league has a conspiray against the Flyers and for the Devils!!!!

[bruins4777]

The flyers defense is actually rather capable of playing fine. Even without johnsson. Say what you will about how slow hatcher is, he was their best defensemen during that 11 game road trip. a big reason why he got the captaincy. however since becomming captain i feel like he's struggled.

the flyers defense and forward group sans forseberg is a very strong team. It's not a matter of them being bad or anything, it's a matter of effort. The team seems to put out one complete effort see 4-1 win over rags, then become proud they are able to play 60 minutes, then follow that up with a crap game see 5-1 loss to devils.

The injuries haven't allowed the flyers to gain much chemistry or consistency. Now it's killing them down the stretch and they're struggling as a result.

[PaDevsFan]

Bruins Nobody said the flyers werent a good team to say that would just be ridiculous. But even in your post you say

" The team seems to put out one complete effort see 4-1 win over rags, then become proud they are able to play 60 minutes, then follow that up with a crap game see 5-1 loss to devils. "

Why is it that nobody can say they just got whooped?? Why is it the Flyers played a crap game?? Maybe just maybe the Devils players had something to do with the Flyers looking like crap?? I mean come on was it a crap game when they lost on Thursday night 4-1? Or was it a crap game when they lost 4-1 a week and a half ago?? Just say it the Flyers were totally outplayed the last 3 times they played the Devils!! and maybe because the Devils are not that bad of a team????

[bruins4777]

i'm not trying to blast the devils or anything. They've had one HELL of a turnaround. From a team that left brodeur out to dry every game, nobody showing up save gionta, even a stretch where mogilny and kozlov where your most productive players out of gionta. Now the devs are cohesive defensively and offensively as well, and brodeur is playing dominant, it's a dangerous mix.

Yes they outplayed the flyers as well, a significant amount. I do attribute that somewhat to how strong the devils have become, but i still feel that if both teams are playing at their peak the flyers win out.

Though come playoff time it may not matter who is "at their peak". With the way the devils are surging and flyers are playing the devs would win the series in 6, if not lesser, if the playoffs started now.

I guess we'll just see...the playoffs are an interesting monster.

Edited April 17, 2006 by bruins4777

[Devils731]

Well of course, the Devils never win because they are the better team, or better coached, or gave better effort, it is always because the other team decided not to win.

[bruins4777]

go look at the 5 games before these past 3.

game 1: 5-2 flyers win

game 2: 2-1 flyers win

game 3: 3-0 devils win

game 4: 2-1 shootout devils win, this was the infamous viktor kozlov highlight reel goal

game 5: 2-1 flyers win

so the devils have one legit win.

Edited April 17, 2006 by bruins4777

[Devils731]

No no, the Devils just played badly then, those games they lost don't count. Only the ones the Devils won are a true reflection of the 2 teams. The Flyers didn't win those games, the Devils gave those ones away.

[Jerrydevil]

No no, the Devils just played badly then, those games they lost don't count. Only the ones the Devils won are a true reflection of the 2 teams. The Flyers didn't win those games, the Devils gave those ones away.

Hahahaha. Good answer.

[PaDevsFan]

Absolutely Devils731 see when the Devils get beat its "see the other team smoked them" but when the Devils not only win but FLAT OUT DOMINATE the last 3 games its the Flyers didnt play well. See Bruins himself says the Devils got it together and Brodeur is playing dominant right now, so yes he wasnt playing well early in the season maybe that is why the Flyers won those games. See he dropped his goals against from well over 3.0 to under 2.5 I would say he is playing pretty well right now. ANd he says if both teams were at their peak the Flyers would win out. You cannot say that becaue of 1 thing. Yes Forsberg is better than any single forward the Devils have, but the Devils depth over 4 lines may be equal if not better. The bottom line is take Esche or Nitty at their absolute absolute finest and I will take Marty at his best 6 days a week and twice on Sunday!!! That is where playoffs are won my friend!!

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

First off, Flyer fans don't get to use Peter Forsberg's groin issues as an excuse. The Flyers knew damn well when they signed him they were getting an injury-prone player who was not likely to play in all 82 games. Going into the season I figured he'd play roughly 3/4s of the season, at most. As of yesterday, he'd played in 59 games...so I think the Flyers have gotten maximum playing time of out him.

Obviously most fans of other hockey teams will be hesitant to give the Devils anything more than backhanded compliments (at best) when they win games. So be it. As great and exciting as this run has been, we all know it won't mean a damn thing come playoff time. I remember back in the early nineties (forget which season), the Boston Bruins went on an absolute tear, finished first at the very end of the season, and got swept by Buffalo in the first round.

As for the Flyers...what's happening to them is pretty typical for that organization. Goaltending issues (remember all of the Flyer fans who were saying they had a sure-fire #1 goalie in Esche at the beginning of the season?), injuries, fighting among teammates...coming apart when the pressure starts to mount. They do have the talent (on paper, as always) to pull it together, but it's looking pretty messy in Flyertown.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[SueNJ97]

As for the Flyers...what's happening to them is pretty typical for that organization. Goaltending issues (remember all of the Flyer fans who were saying they had a sure-fire #1 goalie in Esche at the beginning of the season?), injuries, fighting among teammates...coming apart when the pressure starts to mount. They do have the talent (on paper, as always) to pull it together, but it's looking pretty messy in Flyertown.

Situation normal, all fouled up???

Have they ever had a calm situation going into the post-season? I can't remember one and I've been watching the NHL for several decades now.

I wonder if Flyer fans would know what to do if everything was calm. They would probably think there was some un-named league conspiracy that was keeping everything calm when it really wasn't and wait for the other shoe to drop.

[bruins4777]

if you match the two teams at their peaks(which won't happen) the flyers win out for more reasons than just forseberg. What's gone unnoticed by virtually everybody except people who follow the flyers is carter's emergence. All year he has been unable to find a solid linemate, but dimitrakos(who blowed so much in san jose) has provided a perfect complement.

dimitrakos-carter-umberger has been an absolutely GREAT line. they've scored around a goal or more a game for the past 2 or so weeks.

Even so i guess one could argue the devils do have superior depth, but forseberg in the playoffs is just another wordly player. How many times has he been contained in the playoffs? He's led the playoff scoring race and not even played the entire playoffs.

Elias and gomez are both questionable and inconsistent in the playoffs. Forseberg is known throughout the league as one of the best clutch players in the league. go look up his PPG in the playoffs.

Then again the devils do have brodeur who is the best money goalie in the league.

I simply feel that come playoff time the calls will go down even more and the flyers defense is simply better than the devils defense. I know from watching the bruins all these years you don't get very far in the playoffs without a legit no.1 shutdown dman and all around great defense.

For the past 4 or so years the bruins tried to win with 1 great scoring line, 1 average but inconsistent 2nd line, and a defense filled with mediocricy. It works for the regular season brilliantly, then everything falls off in the playoffs, because star players emerge and dance around you. The devils don't have a niedermayer or stevens anymore to shut everything down. Brodeur is great and i hope he steals a series or two, but i can't see the devils going past the 2nd round, with such an average defense. Its not a knock on brodeur in the least, but it's a team sport. the bruins aren't the only example of this.

Nonetheless, the flyers this year are fairly similar to the one from last year that got to game 7 against the bolts while missing 2 of their best dmen and one playing with a broken hand and another with a mild concussion. Defensively there isn't much change outside of markov's absence, which is more than offset by pitkanen's emergence and hatcher's presence, sure offensively the flyers lost recchi, leclair, JR, and amonte. But all of them were TERRIBLE in the playoffs last year. the only one i give a pass is JR, because he scored 2 goals including the OT winner against toronto while playing injured. They are replaced by speed, youth, and of course peter forseberg.

I can analyze all i want, but how often are any of us right? The so called hockey experts are always wrong. Nobody could forsee the sabres, rags, or canes being this good, the canucks not making the playoffs, henrik lundqvist's dominant play in net, nabokov's horrid play, cristobal huet's emergence, where the hell did andy mcdonald come from, theodore's incredible collapse, and so forth. That's just one season of enormous misses. I never saw raycroft winning the calder, kipprusoft's emergence, micheal ryder, calgary going to the finals, robert lang's cinderella year, and i know i missed a lot there as well.

We'll just have to wait and see. This will probably be the best playoffs in a while. Everything is so damn close on both east and west.