Eltab213 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 If the league wants steriods to be taken seriously, they will bar Clemens and Bonds, or anyone who used steriods, from entering the hall of fame. What kind of example would it set to children, or future players, to let known-users of steriods into one of the most cherished establishments in sports, the baseball hall of fame? That its ok to juice yourself, cheating the other players and fans, if you had good numbers before you started using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 It wouldn't be fair to punish Bonds and Clemens, to me, when I'm pretty positive there a lots of players who also used 'roids that we just don't know about. To me I have to look at all payers in this generation the same regardless of who I have proof was using. The performance enhancing era will become another one of baseball's eras that is referenced to easily tell what the difference between eras was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOTCB Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Speaking of "drivel" looks like you know how to throw it out there like the chump you are. Isn't it telling that the trainer that will bring down a "legend" is from... ST. JOHNS! You sniveling skank fans make me puke! TrentonDevils, is that you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Devil Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 ...hell I even heard some of it on the Rush Limbaugh show in between commercial breaks on the sports stations... For shame, for shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I believe Clemens won 3 or 4 cy young awards before any mention of steriod in his career...He is the best pitcher I remember seeing, and i would say the best pitcher of the last 25 years.. If he is not in the Hall then who is?? Assuming Clemens would have continued to decline and break down had he not gone on the juice, from looking at his stats he probably would have wound up with 220-240 wins...plus the pre-roid Cy Youngs. No WC rings, although that clearly wasn't all his fault. All of that probably would've been enough to get him in, but he would have gone in as a great of his era, as opposed to the one-of-the-all-time-greats level the 'roids afforded him (that probably added 100 wins or so to his all-time total). A lot more pitchers have won 230 games as opposed to 354. I think Pedro was more dominant at his best. Same for Randy Johnson. Maddux did a lot with less, and legitimately. But yeah, pre-'roid Clemens was pretty damned good, no question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmadd Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 It wouldn't be fair to punish Bonds and Clemens, to me, when I'm pretty positive there a lots of players who also used 'roids that we just don't know about. To me I have to look at all payers in this generation the same regardless of who I have proof was using. The performance enhancing era will become another one of baseball's eras that is referenced to easily tell what the difference between eras was. Exactly. I completely agree here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Why not though?? Pete Rose got punished for gambling that happened AFTER his playing career ended?? So what's the difference?? How vaild is your hall of fame if it doesn't have a guy like him in it anyway?? (and yes I without a doubt agree Rose should be in the HOF) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 This is the thing in my mind, oaches, managers, GMS & owners have all known about this for years, and ignored it becuase it helped sell tickets, so IMHO to ONLY punish the players and not the enablers as well is a farse!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 This is the thing in my mind, oaches, managers, GMS & owners have all known about this for years, and ignored it becuase it helped sell tickets, so IMHO to ONLY punish the players and not the enablers as well is a farse!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nature's Minister Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 The evidence against some of the players is sketchy at best. A single source who had been fired by the players he named. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 As most of you know, I'm not much of a baseball fan anymore.... but I was intrigued by the conversation on the Fan590, so I listened in while eating my supper. The discussion was "If the commissioner of baseball had know about this widespread steroid abuse in the 80s and 90s, wouldn't it have been in their best interest to hide it". And they made the point that *EVERYONE*, not just the commissioner, was in the same position. General managers, managers, trainers, players.... everyone was making a killing once the balls started flying out of the parks. Baseball was in a malaise after the strike and the fans came flocking back once the players were juiced. Hockey is still not as strong as it was before the strikes... if I thought it would help, I would suggest that Gary hand out 'roids in the dressing rooms. The fans have shown with their wallets that they really don't care about this steroid crap. So long as the baseball goes over the fence, they players could be taking radioactive injections that would kill them the day the season ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfan26 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Hockey is still not as strong as it was before the strikes... if I thought it would help, I would suggest that Gary hand out 'roids in the dressing rooms. The fans have shown with their wallets that they really don't care about this steroid crap. So long as the baseball goes over the fence, they players could be taking radioactive injections that would kill them the day the season ended. I'm not completely sure about this but I remember reading that hockey players taking steroids really wouldn't help them too much. I think the reason was that while it may give them more muscle mass it won't help things like skating and shooting technique or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmadd Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 This is humorous. http://www.metsrefugees.com/2007/12/14/jus...r-the-holidays/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I'm not completely sure about this but I remember reading that hockey players taking steroids really wouldn't help them too much. I think the reason was that while it may give them more muscle mass it won't help things like skating and shooting technique or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmadd Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I thought this was an interesting article. It sums up the public's reaction very nicely. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-m...p&type=lgns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 (edited) Assuming Clemens would have continued to decline and break down had he not gone on the juice, from looking at his stats he probably would have wound up with 220-240 wins...plus the pre-roid Cy Youngs. No WC rings, although that clearly wasn't all his fault. All of that probably would've been enough to get him in, but he would have gone in as a great of his era, as opposed to the one-of-the-all-time-greats level the 'roids afforded him (that probably added 100 wins or so to his all-time total). A lot more pitchers have won 230 games as opposed to 354.I think Pedro was more dominant at his best. Same for Randy Johnson. Maddux did a lot with less, and legitimately. But yeah, pre-'roid Clemens was pretty damned good, no question. Edited December 15, 2007 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallidevils Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I'm a baseball fan, but haven't been following the current situation too closely. Are players who took HGH when it wasn't illegal actually in trouble? Is anyone actually in trouble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I'm a baseball fan, but haven't been following the current situation too closely. Are players who took HGH when it wasn't illegal actually in trouble? Is anyone actually in trouble? I have been busy so I may not be on top of things, but I don't believe these guys are in trouble since it wasn't illegal at the time and most of these guys haven't failed drug tests in order to be suspended by the current system. Someone correct me if I am wrong please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I have been busy so I may not be on top of things, but I don't believe these guys are in trouble since it wasn't illegal at the time and most of these guys haven't failed drug tests in order to be suspended by the current system. Someone correct me if I am wrong please. Yeah. Not to mention HGH hasn't been proven to assist baseball players in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 The thing about steriods that i think could help Hockey players is the quicker recovery for the body, i think that's why most pitchers would conmsider using... BTw this is going to be a really bad comparison , but I'll do it aby way... Anyone here have a problem with musicians who use drugs?? I'll bet some of the most popular songs of all time have been written under the influence.. if that really any different that what athlete's do?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 And what about the known cheaters in the hall of fame, spitballers... Perry, Sutton and others.. that were known spitballers( cheaters) and still were voted in to the HoF.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmadd Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 And what about the known cheaters in the hall of fame, spitballers... Perry, Sutton and others.. that were known spitballers( cheaters) and still were voted in to the HoF.... I very much dislike them both but I would be in the minority in that I, at the moment, would vote Bonds and Clemens in the HOF. 1)You can't X out the entire "steroid era" in the records books just like you can't erase any other era in baseball history. You talk about it in its context in baseball's history. 2)Who knows how many players used steroids in MLB? Clemens was certainly pitching against and Bonds was hitting against users of performance enhancing drugs. 3)The hall is not, nor ever has been, a home of saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I very much dislike them both but I would be in the minority in that I, at the moment, would vote Bonds and Clemens in the HOF. 1)You can't X out the entire "steroid era" in the records books just like you can't erase any other era in baseball history. You talk about it in its context in baseball's history. 2)Who knows how many players used steroids in MLB? Clemens was certainly pitching against and Bonds was hitting against users of performance enhancing drugs. 3)The hall is not, nor ever has been, a home of saints. I would also vote them in, along with Rose & Shoeless jo Jackson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I would also vote them in, along with Rose & Shoeless jo Jackson... I don't mind any of them getting into the hall of fame, AS long as there is an addendum explaining all of the misdeeds that each had committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmadd Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I would also vote them in, along with Rose & Shoeless jo Jackson... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...l.ap/index.html "I never thought anybody would make me look like an altar boy," Rose said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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