Beck27 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Dude--the more you argue the weaker your argument sounds--we all get that he isn't a great puck moving defenseman but he is playing well, has the highest plus/minus on the team so far this year, and most definately isn't a bum. That's hysterical bro, you just agreed with the only arguement I've presented. Go back and read my posts...I never said that he can't play defense. Edited October 19, 2008 by Beck27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) That's hysterical bro, you just agreed with the only arguement I've presented. Go back and read my posts...I never said that he can't play defense. It doesn't add up though.. Think about it; if he was SO BAD at clearing the zone "every time he gets the puck" then how come the other team isn't scoring on these mishap passes/clearances..? And no the answer is not Brodeur or Mottau saving him. Plus its not really his fault hes not clearing the zone by putting it up the boards.. its the wingers job to win the puck from the pointmen and get it out.. Edited October 19, 2008 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck27 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 It doesn't add up. If couldn't clear the zone well, which you said, then again his +/- would not be +4, b/c he wouldn't be getting away with it "EVERY TIME" he gets the pucks. Again, go back and read what I wrote. I said he can clear the zone just fine...the problem is that when there is a clear outlet pass he doesn't make it, he just whips the puck up the boards or through the middle of the ice, after which the puck ends up with the other team. Granted, the puck is out of a dangerous area, but also out of the Devils possession. Why is a +4 if he does this?...because as I said, the puck is out of a dangerous area. Never once have I said that he can't play defense...it's ultimately his job, and he's not bad at it. My arguement all along has been that he doesn't move the puck effectively, of which nobody can make a valid arguement against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Again, go back and read what I wrote. I said he can clear the zone just fine...the problem is that when there is a clear outlet pass he doesn't make it, he just whips the puck up the boards or through the middle of the ice, after which the puck ends up with the other team. Granted, the puck is out of a dangerous area, but also out of the Devils possession. Why is a +4 if he does this?...because as I said, the puck is out of a dangerous area. Never once have I said that he can't play defense...it's ultimately his job, and he's not bad at it. My arguement all along has been that he doesn't move the puck effectively, of which nobody can make a valid arguement against. Jesus.. hes not a puck-moving defenseman, get over it. Hes not gonna make the great pass that leads the Devils onto a rush often.. You're just , its not his style of play.. Oh BTW hes very slow and big, do you expect him to work around and out-skate the forechecking wingers? Because thats what he needs to do in order to make that outlet pass to the wingers.. Unless the other team is in a line change or not forechecking Edited October 19, 2008 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck27 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Jesus.. hes not a puck-moving defenseman, get over it. Hes not gonna make the great pass that leads the Devils onto a rush often.. You're just , its not his style of play.. And therein lies a fundamental problem of why the team has so much trouble scoring goals. This isn't doom and gloom posting, but is relevant to the team's performance win or lose. I'll leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) And therein lies a fundamental problem of why the team has so much trouble scoring goals. This isn't doom and gloom posting, but is relevant to the team's performance win or lose. I'll leave it at that. So the defense is to blame for the offense not scoring? I understand what your saying but its not like we're the only team with a big dude who "cant move the puck well" <-- (according to you) Edited October 19, 2008 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck27 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) So the defense is to blame for the offense not scoring? I understand what your saying but its not like we're the only team with a big dude who "cant move the puck well" <-- (according to you) Of course I don't blame the defense for the scoring troubles...just adds fuel to the fire so to speak. And don't put words in my mouth...it's absurd to insinuate that I said he's the only defenseman in the league that isn't a good puck mover...although it is a fundamental skill regardless. Edited October 19, 2008 by Beck27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 And therein lies a fundamental problem of why the team has so much trouble scoring goals. This isn't doom and gloom posting, but is relevant to the team's performance win or lose. I'll leave it at that. Uh im not putting words into your mouth.. Im just interpreting that statement. And to me it looks like you're saying that b/c of White's inability "to move the puck well" it effects the offense with scoring goals b/c they aren't getting the outlet pass that will lead them onto an offensive rush. I think thats ridiculous.. its another story if we have a bunch of Colin Whites that made our defense, then you can make the claim and it would be 100% true.. but again we aren't the only team who has a big dude who can't make a good outlet pass. We gave other guys on the defense who can do that, like Martin or Oduya who have good speed to compliment their passing ability.. very opposite Colin White. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck27 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Uh im not putting words into your mouth.. Im just interpreting that statement. And to me it looks like you're saying that b/c of White's inability "to move the puck well" it effects the offense with scoring goals b/c they aren't getting the outlet pass that will lead them onto an offensive rush.I think thats ridiculous.. its another story if we have a bunch of Colin Whites that made our defense, then you can make the claim and it would be 100% true.. but again we aren't the only team who has a big dude who can't make a good outlet pass. We gave other guys on the defense who can do that, like Martin or Oduya who have good speed to compliment their passing ability.. very opposite Colin White. Agree to disagree then...I think it's problem when a defenseman can't make an outlet pass, no matter how many other defenseman we have that can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Agree to disagree then...I think it's problem when a defenseman can't make an outlet pass, no matter how many other defenseman we have that can. Its his physical nature.. Hes big and slow, hes not gonna be able to find many ways to maneuver away from forechecking wingers without rapping it up the boards to a teammate winger. The only way you will see White make a great outlet pass is if there is no pressure, which again would mean the opposing team is changing or not forechecking for whatever reason Your singling out White as if hes supposed to be a puck-moving d-man.. that really just doesn't sense to me. If you made this case for someone like Oduya or Martin for instance (if one of them were to be struggling to make outlet passes) it would be totally right. Edited October 19, 2008 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck27 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Its his physical nature.. Hes big and slow, hes not gonna be able to find many ways to maneuver away from forechecking wingers without rapping it up the boards to a teammate winger. The only way you will see White make a great outlet pass is if there is no pressure, which again would mean the opposing team is changing or not forechecking for whatever reasonYour singling out White as if hes supposed to be a puck-moving d-man.. that really just doesn't sense to me. If you made this case for someone like Oduya or Martin for instance (if one of them were to be struggling to make outlet passes) it would be totally right. He's being singled out because it happens even when there is no pressure...that is what burns me. I don't expect him to dance around forecheckers, but I do expect clean "hockey plays" when there is time to make them...it's fundamentals. If he starts proving me wrong, I'll be the first to eat my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) He's being singled out because it happens even when there is no pressure... Ive watched every game so far this year and I don't recall any horrible decisions by White with no pressure on, or at least none that stuck out to me or resulted in a goal against.. I do remember he had a bad first game, made a bad backpass in the ATL game in the last seconds (with pressure on), but thats the only real wrong-doing that I've seen in his play so far. On the good side hes a +4 and being physical defensively and he also made that terrific poke check vs PIT that ended up resulting in a 'game-saving' play because im sure if that pass is not poked away its gonna be a good scoring chance.. and on that poke check he got credited with a secondary assist to Parise's GWG Again I dont expect him to be a great passer, its not really his playing style as funny as that may sound.. When he starts turning over the puck with no pressure and it results on goals against I'll eat my words. Edited October 19, 2008 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs4LIFE Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Are we going to have a Colin White/Jamie Langenbrunner thread after every other game? I mean honestly just shut up and wait till we're losing to complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devhead17 Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 I predict we'll have at least 10 "Trade/Cut Colin White" threads from these "fake" devils fans who drop in a post once every...uh... year (wow, I've heard of a Lurker... but c'mon!!) by season's end. Let's play a game, Over/Under is 7.... any takers? Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that number of posts directly correlates to ones level of "fandom." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilinLA Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 And therein lies a fundamental problem of why the team has so much trouble scoring goals. This isn't doom and gloom posting, but is relevant to the team's performance win or lose. I'll leave it at that. In the Postseason, and throughout last regular season, the biggest complaints that were leading to goals on this forum: toughness, taking the body, and clearing the crease. White is doing that, thats his job, thats his game. HE knows what skillsets he has and which he doesn't. In a perfect world it would be nice if every defenceman was: 1.) Big & Physical 2.) Great Skater 3.) Master of the transitional game and the "1st pass" 4.) Great shot from the point 5.) Can lead a rush But in the REAL hockey world those guys cost $$$ (8.5M seems the going rate - thnaks Brian Campbell). The truth of the matter is in the cap world you have to match your skillsets on your Defensive pairs. Thats the plan in place. We get that you think White's 1st pass is the flaw in our transitional game, but you're not breaking any new ground here... White's job is the backend.... only elite defenseman are ELITE in all facets of the game it seems. So whats your preference, because you do have to make a choice with our personnel, guys bowling over MARTY every 2 minutes, or a beautiful 1st pass to the forward? Now, you can bitch about the fundamentals of White's game all you want...but I ask...what do you REALLY do with what you have out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck27 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 In the Postseason, and throughout last regular season, the biggest complaints that were leading to goals on this forum: toughness, taking the body, and clearing the crease.White is doing that, thats his job, thats his game. HE knows what skillsets he has and which he doesn't. In a perfect world it would be nice if every defenceman was: 1.) Big & Physical 2.) Great Skater 3.) Master of the transitional game and the "1st pass" 4.) Great shot from the point 5.) Can lead a rush But in the REAL hockey world those guys cost $$$ (8.5M seems the going rate - thnaks Brian Campbell). The truth of the matter is in the cap world you have to match your skillsets on your Defensive pairs. Thats the plan in place. We get that you think White's 1st pass is the flaw in our transitional game, but you're not breaking any new ground here... White's job is the backend.... only elite defenseman are ELITE in all facets of the game it seems. So whats your preference, because you do have to make a choice with our personnel, guys bowling over MARTY every 2 minutes, or a beautiful 1st pass to the forward? Now, you can bitch about the fundamentals of White's game all you want...but I ask...what do you REALLY do with what you have out there? We already covered here that White does a good enough playing defense, top pair level most nights, but that doesn't give him a free pass in my eyes for not being able to complete a pass. Does he have to be elite? Of course not...the Devils have only had 2...maybe 3 elite defenseman in the history of their franchise. But by the NHL level, you expect players to be able to complete certain plays, and White has been exceptionally bad this year at moving the puck. That doesn't mean I want him off the team, or that I think he's an awful player...I actually love his physical play. But part of being a fan is critiquing players...he's not losing a spot from what I say...so no harm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowutopia Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 White's always been terrible at passing and he's always had like two horrible giveaways per game as far as I can remember UNTIL...believe it or not, his eye injury. Maybe before that, but once the rest of the defense squad retired or left White's game stepped up, imo. You can't turn a chicken into a donkey though, or however the saying goes. He'll never be great at passing the puck, but he's played very solidly so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Thats why White isn't supposed to try and be a cross-ice passer (if you are watching the DAL vs NJ game right now) Edited October 23, 2008 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 This is not the first time i actually believe his periferal (or lack of) vision caused him to cough up the puck, not just the perfect pass to ribiero. He doesn't see folks coming and get stripped of the puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Suck it up people as White will probably be a Devils staple for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oconnellrules Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 played pretty well tonight vs Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatansDevils Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 White played a strong game tonight. His positioning was very good and didn't make any bad mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 White played a strong game tonight. His positioning was very good and didn't make any bad mistakes. Well, I wouldn't say "any". He made a huge, gigantic honking mistake. It just sucks and you have to accept it, unless that was a brain fart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I saw at least 3 really bad mistakes tonight by Colin. By far his worst game of the season, including the opener. His defence wasn't bad such as positioning and fighting for the puck... but once the puck was on his stick, it was like "how quickly can I give this to somebody on the other team?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theamazingtiny Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 period.All of these people hate his guts because he doesn't have "offensive skill" ?? I mean, really, how talented offensively was Kenny Daneyko? He scored in the playoffs! When it counts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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