Hey Lou & Jeff! Don't Blow It!!

[KC Devil]

it has a lot to do with it.

neal broten turned into a terrible player in 96, stephane richer had a horrible season, bob carpenter's offensive game was gone, bobby holik was still stuck on the crash line, etc. basically the team was insanely weak down the middle when two of their centers turned from solid players into 4th liners. throw in cup hangover and the fact that the devils had more points than half the western conference playoff teams (i think they set a pre-shootout record for most points to miss the playoffs that still hasn't been equaled) - how do you then explain 1997, which was basically the same team minus richer and plus odelein (lol), finishing as well as they did?

My point exactly, Triumph. It makes no sense, using that logic, correct?

That was the EXACT logic used earlier, which I quoted a few posts above. Was absurd then, and is still absurd, which is why I posted it. Thank you for the confirmation!

Mike Martin

KC Devil

[HellOnICE]

Lyle Odelein....was a plus at one point.

OY

[devilsrule33]

I think people are missing the point if we are going to continue the debating here. The Devils may have been a great or average team in 1995, but in the playoffs they were outstanding. They rarely faced any adversity if any. They walked all over their competition, and in the finals embarrassed the Wings. We all have the DVD. Bowman said he had never been more ashamed and embarrassed of his team. They chased Vernon out of the game. They put home 5 more in the deciding game. Everyone was getting in on the act including Down, Brylin and Chambers.

Brodeur had some nice moments, but never had to be sharp. The 1993 Montreal Canadiens Cup team may have been a better regular season team, but in the playoffs were led by Roy. They went right through their competition because Roy would not be beat. The 10-0 OT record might be as many OT wins as Brodeur has in his career. He was on a different planet.

The 1986 Montreal Canadiens team was a much worse team than the 1993 team anyway. That performance might be an even better one given his age, and a much worse lineup.

Again, the Devils were a powerhouse in 2000, but say they couldn't score in the playoffs and Brodeur had to take over every game and win 1-0 and 2-1, and win 7-8 OT games, we shouldn't dismiss that hypothetical accomplishment because they were a great regular season team.

[NJDevs26]

I think people are missing the point if we are going to continue the debating here. The Devils may have been a great or average team in 1995, but in the playoffs they were outstanding. They rarely faced any adversity if any. They walked all over their competition, and in the finals embarrassed the Wings. We all have the DVD. Bowman said he had never been more ashamed and embarrassed of his team. They chased Vernon out of the game. They put home 5 more in the deciding game. Everyone was getting in on the act including Down, Brylin and Chambers.

Brodeur had some nice moments, but never had to be sharp. The 1993 Montreal Canadiens Cup team may have been a better regular season team, but in the playoffs were led by Roy. They went right through their competition because Roy would not be beat. The 10-0 OT record might be as many OT wins as Brodeur has in his career. He was on a different planet.

The 1986 Montreal Canadiens team was a much worse team than the 1993 team anyway. That performance might be an even better one given his age, and a much worse lineup.

Again, the Devils were a powerhouse in 2000, but say they couldn't score in the playoffs and Brodeur had to take over every game and win 1-0 and 2-1, and win 7-8 OT games, we shouldn't dismiss that hypothetical accomplishment because they were a great regular season team.

People always bring up the OT's with Roy and yet never bring up Brodeur's road wins in his Cup years. And Montreal didn't have to play the Oilers in '86 or the Penguins in '93, who was really their toughest competition either season, Hartford in '86, Quebec in the first round in '93?

New Jersey in 2000 had to play three 100-point teams and another that was close (granted Florida was bad, but even they were around 96 or so and had the league's leading scorer), and the first two Devils Cup teams won double-digit road games.

Edited March 16, 2009 by NJDevs26

[devilsrule33]

People always bring up the OT's with Roy and yet never bring up Brodeur's road wins in his Cup years. And Montreal didn't have to play the Oilers in '86 or the Penguins in '93, who was really their toughest competition either season, Hartford in '86, Quebec in the first round in '93?

New Jersey in 2000 had to play three 100-point teams and another that was close (granted Florida was bad, but even they were around 96 or so and had the league's leading scorer), and the first two Devils Cup teams won double-digit road games.

Again as I argue this, I think the world of Brodeur, but I watched everyone of those games in 2000, and never remember saying Brodeur was incredible. Well in game he looked outstanding, but if Brodeur looked outstanding than Belfour was something 5x greater than that because the Devils really carried the play in those OTs. Anyway, He played well at times, and struggled at times. But usually it went with how the team was playing. Never do I ever remember saying, "sh!t the team is really blowing it but Marty is keeping us in it. They just can't beat him."

The Devils played some outstanding defense, and shutdown most of the top players they played against. But remember who was the main guy doing that: The Conn Smythe winner Scott Stevens.

We can argue Brodeur vs Roy all we want, but the playoff record really shows a major difference. It will take Brodeur winning more than 3 Cups worth of games to pass Roy, while Brodeur will smash Roy's win record. So right now I have Brodeur as the greatest regular season goalie, while Roy is the greatest playoff (money) goalie.

Roy: 9 times he has been in the Conference Finals, 3 times has he been bounced in the 1st round

Brodeur: 5 times he has bene in the Conference Finals, 5 times he has been bounced in the 1st round

I can't find each of their playoff OT records, but I can imagine the differences.

And I realize where we are debating this...isn't the best place. And I am in no way trying to diminish what Brodeur is about to accomplish. I am as stoked as any of you are.

[CupChamps3X]

I'm still waiting for Martin to carry an average team on his back to a cup final as Roy did TWICE (1986 & 1993) while standing on his head and facing a barrage of shots.

Im fine with rewarding Roy for outstanding performances on average teams, but how can you criticize a guy for being great while having great guys around him? did Marty choose to have stevens/niedermayer around for a decade? he's done an okay job since they left with Colin White and Paul Martin as the cornerpieces of the D.

The only thing that might put Roy ahead of Marty is the fact that he managed to win a cup with Lyle Odelein, a feat Marty never accomplished.

[ice dog]

looks like roy is conceding brodeur is the greatest...i guess the debate is over now.

[Sickman]

Brodeur is an amazing goaltender. The numbers speak for themselves and even if there were times that he didn't have to play out of his mind to win games the bottom line is that he still won. That is all he has ever done since he broke into this league. You can take any of the top goalies to ever play the game and each one will have strengths and weaknesses. When it all comes down to it they're all fantastic. Just the fact that Brodeur is in these discussions is proof enough of his place in the history of the game.

I'd really love to know the percentage of the Devils fan base that became fans of the team because of Martin Brodeur. I know I'm one of them. I kind of grew up around the sport being that my father has been following it for a long time but it wasn't until Marty arrived for good in 93-94 that I fell in love with the sport and the team.

[DevilinLA]

You know what guys...you're all missing the point.

This thread is about HOW SHOULD THEY CELEBRATE IT.

Most of you I think the world of and enjoy reading and posting with you.

However for the sake of THIS PARTICULAR thread I could give a fvck about your solitary opinion about Brodeur, Roy, or Lyle Odelien.

Sorry to be so blunt but somebody had to.

Somebody PLEASE go an make a : "Debate the Greatest Goalie: Roy vs. Hasek vs. Brodeur" thread so we can get back to discussing the heart of this thread.....

What's the best way for the NJ Organization to honor this achievement????

Perhaps we can actually come up with a suggestion or two for Lou, Chris M. and the boys?

[Cowutopia]

Whatever happens, the cheerleaders should probably lose their tops.

[Revan]

Whatever happens, the cheerleaders should probably lose their tops.

That must be that surprise Lou talked about.

[Devil Dan 56]

Whatever happens, the cheerleaders should probably lose their tops.

<purchases tickets for Friday in case record holds until then>

[The Rock 07]

Do you think that if there was to be a big ceremony or banner raising, that it would be the night he gets 552 or the next game?

[njskaguy33]

Do you think that if there was to be a big ceremony or banner raising, that it would be the night he gets 552 or the next game?

Neither...I'm sure any big ceremony for Marty will be announced way in advance to drive up ticket sales. That being said, I have tixs for tommorow and Friday just in case

[Devil Dan 56]

Do you think that if there was to be a big ceremony or banner raising, that it would be the night he gets 552 or the next game?

Knowing the Devs, I doubt a banner, but I would assume a pre-game ceremony before the next home game. Hopefully Friday, since I have tix to both...

[CRASHER]

the banner for mb30 will be when mb30 retires

anything else is almost overkill....

(not to mention they can stick his career totals on THAT banner when the numbers are final)

[adavid]

Whatever happens, the cheerleaders should probably lose their tops.

Twice.

[TheIceDog]

Congratulations to Martin Brodeur! By far the greatest game that I've attended at The Rock! Most definitely a Saint Paddy's Day to remember. Kudos to the Newark FD Pipe & Drum Band, outstanding guys!!

Well gentlemen, the numbers and records speak for themself. Brodeur is the greatest of them all. Forget last night's beauty (and another shutout!), Tuesday night was the goods! Right up there with Stevens, Brodeur & Co. holding up the Cup in '95 and '03 (couldn't make it to Dallas in '00).

Had to leave the board for a bit. Too much of 7 trying to trash Marty's accomplishments as well as that dope from Brooklyn who tries to ridiculously convince others that Brodeur had early career success, than a long lull with a current resurgence? What???

Let's see, we all understand the early success: Calder Trophy winning rookie of the year award, along with making the playoffs, along with going to the Conference Finals, along with winning the Stanley Cup in his sophmore campaign, making the playoffs every season (except once), winning division titles, conference titles and more Stanley Cups (and toss in an Olympic Gold for good measure). Whew, busy boy.

Soooo, the dope from Brooklyn must be referring to the time period after his last Cup in '03. Hmmm, a lull, huh? All Brodeur did was extend his own NHL record for consecutive 35+ win seasons, establish a new consecutive 40+ win season, add to his overall 40+ win seasons, break Bernie Parent's 30 year record for most wins in a season, continue to add to his amazing shutout total, make the playoffs every season, oh and win a Gold in the World Cup. Wow, that's some lull.

No dope from Brooklyn, as Gary Bettman put it in his many praises, Brodeur has been a model of consistency and has set the gold standard for all future netminders.

Once again, congratulations Martin Brodeur and thank you my good man for some incredible memories throughout the years. We all look forward to many more!

[Triumph]

Congratulations to Martin Brodeur! By far the greatest game that I've attended at The Rock! Most definitely a Saint Paddy's Day to remember. Kudos to the Newark FD Pipe & Drum Band, outstanding guys!!

Well gentlemen, the numbers and records speak for themself. Brodeur is the greatest of them all. Forget last night's beauty (and another shutout!), Tuesday night was the goods! Right up there with Stevens, Brodeur & Co. holding up the Cup in '95 and '03 (couldn't make it to Dallas in '00).

Had to leave the board for a bit. Too much of 7 trying to trash Marty's accomplishments as well as that dope from Brooklyn who tries to ridiculously convince others that Brodeur had early career success, than a long lull with a current resurgence? What???

Let's see, we all understand the early success: Calder Trophy winning rookie of the year award, along with making the playoffs, along with going to the Conference Finals, along with winning the Stanley Cup in his sophmore campaign, making the playoffs every season (except once), winning division titles, conference titles and more Stanley Cups (and toss in an Olympic Gold for good measure). Whew, busy boy.

Soooo, the dope from Brooklyn must be referring to the time period after his last Cup in '03. Hmmm, a lull, huh? All Brodeur did was extend his own NHL record for consecutive 35+ win seasons, establish a new consecutive 40+ win season, add to his overall 40+ win seasons, break Bernie Parent's 30 year record for most wins in a season, continue to add to his amazing shutout total, make the playoffs every season, oh and win a Gold in the World Cup. Wow, that's some lull.

No dope from Brooklyn, as Gary Bettman put it in his many praises, Brodeur has been a model of consistency and has set the gold standard for all future netminders.

Once again, congratulations Martin Brodeur and thank you my good man for some incredible memories throughout the years. We all look forward to many more!

lol.

save percentages for marty brodeur:

1998: .917

1999: .906

2000: .910

2001: .906 (with an .897 in the playoffs - that is awful)

between 1998 and 2007 brodeur was never in the top 10 for save percentage in the league. this despite consistently facing less shots than the league. brodeur is great now, he was average in the middle of his career - he had the good fortune of playing behind possibly the greatest defense in NHL history. one of the more bizarre careers in sports history.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Triumph

['7']

lol.

save percentages for marty brodeur:

1998: .917

1999: .906

2000: .910

2001: .906 (with an .897 in the playoffs - that is awful)

between 1998 and 2007 brodeur was never in the top 10 for save percentage in the league. this despite consistently facing less shots than the league. brodeur is great now, he was average in the middle of his career - he had the good fortune of playing behind possibly the greatest defense in NHL history. one of the more bizarre careers in sports history.

How dare you trash Marty like that, Ice Dog is going to tear you a new one once he regains his computer privileges at the psychiatric hospital.

[Devil Dan 56]

lol.

save percentages for marty brodeur:

1998: .917

1999: .906

2000: .910

2001: .906 (with an .897 in the playoffs - that is awful)

between 1998 and 2007 brodeur was never in the top 10 for save percentage in the league. this despite consistently facing less shots than the league. brodeur is great now, he was average in the middle of his career - he had the good fortune of playing behind possibly the greatest defense in NHL history. one of the more bizarre careers in sports history.

Here are the numbers I care about....

1998: 43-17-8

1999: 39-21-10

2000: 43-20-8

2001: 42-17-11

It's all about them W's. But I will agree with you, I didn't have the confidence I have with him right now until the last few years or so, this year especially.

[koolkoreankid23]

I'm looking at the 1986 Habs roster right now, and I'm looking at the names that stick out.

Mats Naslund

Bobby Smith

Larry Robinson

Guy Carbonneau

Bob Gainey

Stephane Richer

Chris Chelios

Claude Lemieux

I think Claude 7 is really underrating the 1986 Habs. I forget who it was, but somebody said that the regular season for the Devils in 1995 didn't mean anything because they were a dominant team in the playoffs. Well the same can be said about the Habs in 1986. If Patty Roy was the reason for the Habs to dominate in the 1986 playoffs, why can't it be possible that Marty was a significant reason for the Devils dominating in 1995? Roy is the only one who deserves to be in the same breath as Marty. Before Marty came to the Devils, they were a good team, but they weren't a great team. As soon as Marty came on board in 1993-94, the Devils went to a whole new level. I find it hard to believe that it's a coincidence. Marty made the Devils a great team. Once all the players became more confident with Marty in net, they played unbelievable. Marty made the Devils a much better team, and is the main reason why they succeeded as much as they did. I can tell you that without even looking up Marty's stats. If anybody rode their team to success, it's Roy.

Hasek isn't as good as Marty because he didn't take a mediocre team, and turn them into an elite team. Marty did.

[moj8681]

I'm looking at the 1986 Habs roster right now, and I'm looking at the names that stick out.

Mats Naslund

Bobby Smith

Larry Robinson

Guy Carbonneau

Bob Gainey

Stephane Richer

Chris Chelios

Claude Lemieux

I think Claude 7 is really underrating the 1986 Habs. I forget who it was, but somebody said that the regular season for the Devils in 1995 didn't mean anything because they were a dominant team in the playoffs. Well the same can be said about the Habs in 1986. If Patty Roy was the reason for the Habs to dominate in the 1986 playoffs, why can't it be possible that Marty was a significant reason for the Devils dominating in 1995? Roy is the only one who deserves to be in the same breath as Marty. Before Marty came to the Devils, they were a good team, but they weren't a great team. As soon as Marty came on board in 1993-94, the Devils went to a whole new level. I find it hard to believe that it's a coincidence. Marty made the Devils a great team. Once all the players became more confident with Marty in net, they played unbelievable. Marty made the Devils a much better team, and is the main reason why they succeeded as much as they did. I can tell you that without even looking up Marty's stats. If anybody rode their team to success, it's Roy.

Hasek isn't as good as Marty because he didn't take a mediocre team, and turn them into an elite team. Marty did.

Er... Hasek took a mediocre team all the way to the Finals. He never had a Stevens, Niedermayer, or an A-Line. And when he did have something like that in Detroit, guess what, he won! I don't want to add fuel to the fire here, but your last comment is just really off-base.

[Triumph]

Roy's .923 save percentage in the 1986 was the highest playoff save percentage for a Cup winning goaltender until Brodeur's .927 in 1995. Of course, in 85-86, Bob Froese led the league with a .907 save percentage in the regular season - 13 goalies had that or better in the 94-95 season.

[squishyx]

between 1998 and 2007 brodeur was never in the top 10 for save percentage in the league. this despite consistently facing less shots than the league. brodeur is great now, he was average in the middle of his career - he had the good fortune of playing behind possibly the greatest defense in NHL history. one of the more bizarre careers in sports history.

If you are on a good team you will face less shots but those shots will be higher quality, hence lower save pct. And you know what? I think you have used that argument before, when talking about why Loungo had such a higher sv pct on the panthers; he saw a lot more low quality shots.