SS-SS Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 (edited) What your forgetting is that just about every playoff team has multiple star forwards, only the teams with strong defensive depth win the race.Kane/Toews were non-existent in the finals. The big goals were scored by depth forwards Bolland, Byfuglin, Sharp, et. al. I agree +1 I understand every single person that say that having Kovalchuk is a huge advantage and that he is a great player and they are probably right but if you want to win then how are you going to make it without Defense ???During the last couple of years we proved that we could not dot it with Martin in so you are telling me that you are going to tell me that we are going to do it without him and no top pairing ??? Can you guys tell me about what we were all whining back in April when we got eliminated ?? We were all whining about our D turning into Mike Motoz and that our best D-MEN was Andy Greene.OK the guy improved and all but I mean if he is our best D then there is a big problem,at least bigger than offense and we need to focus on that problem. I am not saying don't sign Kovy I am just saying that if we can't get a descend solid first pair because of his deal than there is absolutely no point in getting him even if score 60 goals because when playoff times comes we will crash big time. Edited June 29, 2010 by SS-SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringbackbrylin Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 shocking news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH26 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 shocking news OK I'll bite. What is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim777 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 OK I'll bite. What is? I think he's responding to the title of the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanity_gallops Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 (edited) What you're forgetting is that these teams have multiple star forwards. I've posted the numbers myself before so I'm not gonna keep repeating it but just calculate the average goals scored during the reg. season for all Stanley Cup winning teams post lockout. Or in the playoffs itself: I believe Kane/Toews combined for something like 56 points. Sure its nice to have a stud on defense, but as long as a team has a defensive gameplan and a good defensive coach, they can win a Cup with a high powered offense. They had offensive depth with a few key catalysts. 2005-2006: Hurricanes (Staal; Williams, Stillman, Recchi, Weight) v. Oilers (Hemsky? Smyth? Horcoff, Stoll... not exactly superstar forwards on that team) 2006-2007: Senators (Spezza, Alfredsson, Heatley; Fisher) v. Ducks (Selanne; McDonald, Kunitz, Getzlaf, Perry... Selanne was the only real star on offense that year) 2007-2008: Wings (Datsyuk, Zetterberg; Holmstrom, Cleary, Franzen, Samuelsson) v. Penguins (Crosby, Malkin, Hossa; Sykora, Malone, Staal) 2008-2009: Wings (same + Hossa) v. Penguins (Crosby, Malkin; Staal, Guerin, etc.) 2009-2010: Flyers (Carter, Gagne, Richards; Briere, Hartnell, Giroux) v. Blackhawks (Kane, Toews, Hossa; Sharp, Byfuglien, Versteeg) So yeah, I'm with you that these teams have big-time offensive performers... but that alone isn't putting them into the playoffs. If it were, why have the Lightning flopped with Lecavalier and St. Louis? Washington with Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Knuble? Offensive only gets you so far... you need big-time defenders to take it the next step. Give me a Pronger over a Kovalchuk any day. Edited June 30, 2010 by insanity_gallops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 They had offensive depth with a few key catalysts. 2005-2006: Hurricanes (Staal; Williams, Stillman, Recchi, Weight) v. Oilers (Hemsky? Smyth? Horcoff, Stoll... not exactly superstar forwards on that team) 2006-2007: Senators (Spezza, Alfredsson, Heatley; Fisher) v. Ducks (Selanne; McDonald, Kunitz, Getzlaf, Perry... Selanne was the only real star on offense that year) 2007-2008: Wings (Datsyuk, Zetterberg; Holmstrom, Cleary, Franzen, Samuelsson) v. Penguins (Crosby, Malkin, Hossa; Sykora, Malone, Staal) 2008-2009: Wings (same + Hossa) v. Penguins (Crosby, Malkin; Staal, Guerin, etc.) 2009-2010: Flyers (Carter, Gagne, Richards; Briere, Hartnell, Giroux) v. Blackhawks (Kane, Toews, Hossa; Sharp, Byfuglien, Versteeg) So yeah, I'm with you that these teams have big-time offensive performers... but that alone isn't putting them into the playoffs. If it were, why have the Lightning flopped with Lecavalier and St. Louis? Washington with Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Knuble? Offensive only gets you so far... you need big-time defenders to take it the next step. Give me a Pronger over a Kovalchuk any day. Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH26 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I think he's responding to the title of the thread oh It just seemed like it was out of nowhere at this point, 17 pages in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 (edited) If Kovy sings somewhere else how about beefing up the right a little more? Maybe Afinogenov to play on the right of Arnott and Elias? Selanne for a year? Is it finally time for Satan to become a Devil? BTW, Sykora is in fact available. Yikes. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=532201 Edited June 30, 2010 by Jerzey Devil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 If Kovy sings somewhere else how about beefing up the right a little more? Maybe Afinogenov to play on the right of Arnott and Elias? Selanne for a year? Is it finally time for Satan to become a Devil? BTW, Sykora is in fact available. Yikes. http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=532201 did we travel back to 2006? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 did we travel back to 2006? Without a trade, that's all that's out there. Well, almost. There's still Bill Guerin. Should we expect his return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 They had offensive depth with a few key catalysts. So yeah, I'm with you that these teams have big-time offensive performers... but that alone isn't putting them into the playoffs. If it were, why have the Lightning flopped with Lecavalier and St. Louis? Washington with Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Knuble? Offensive only gets you so far... you need big-time defenders to take it the next step. Give me a Pronger over a Kovalchuk any day. First off, the Oilers were a fluke. An exception from the rule. As for the Lightning, 2 things: bad coaching. no mind for defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Sykora, Satan, Guerin... Hell no! Maybe we should just put MacLean back on the ice. Afinogenov could be OK. But I don't really expect any moves on offense unless we DO sign Kovy (if he's gone, I'd say top 6 stays in tact. If we re-sign him, we may expect a trade to make some room). Okay, some signing for the 3rd or 4th line is probably going to happen, but obviously that's nothing exciting. Our situation on defense seems much more interesting (requiring moves, that is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanity_gallops Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 (edited) First off, the Oilers were a fluke. An exception from the rule. As for the Lightning, 2 things: bad coaching. no mind for defense. Even discounting the 05-06 Finals -- because let's face it, there were many flukes that season -- teams aren't as likely to be successful if they don't have one of those step-up, big-game defenders. Case in point, the Washington Capitals thus far. There's a reason many are speculating they'll try to sign Volchenkov; he's not at that same level, but he'd be more defensively reliable than anyone they've had thus far. As for the Lightning, they might have been a mess, but plenty of other teams could be used in their place. How 'bout the Sharks? Major offensive weapons (Thornton, Marleau, Heatley; Pavelski, Setoguchi), defensive depth but no stud, yearly playoff collapses. Canucks, same story (Sedin, Sedin; Burrows, Kesler, Samuelsson). Or, oh yeah, how 'bout the Devils? A commitment to defense, coupled with Kovalchuk, Parise, Elias, Zajac, Langenbrunner, Zubrus would seem likely to bring success. However, when the defense is Martin, White, Salvador, Green, Mottau, Skoula... all the offensive depth in the world isn't going to get it done. My bigger point is that teams with offensive depth and a big-time defender are more likely to be successful in the playoffs than teams that spend all of their energy on trying to become offensive powerhouses. Maybe that explains why the Devils have been drafting so many defenders recently. Even two years ago, when the Devils took Tedenby, Cormier and Henrique, they drafted Burlon and Delahy; last year it was Josefson then a clear focus on defense for the next three rounds, and this year it was Merrill and Faust. Edited June 30, 2010 by insanity_gallops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 If Kovy sings somewhere else how about beefing up the right a little more? Maybe Afinogenov to play on the right of Arnott and Elias? Selanne for a year? Is it finally time for Satan to become a Devil? BTW, Sykora is in fact available. Yikes. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=532201 Please tell me this is a joke. Our biggest offensive need has been a 2nd line center, we got it in Arnott. Our forwards are done. The focus for Lou should be on defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Please tell me this is a joke. Our biggest offensive need has been a 2nd line center, we got it in Arnott. Our forwards are done. The focus for Lou should be on defense. We still need cogs on the bottom 2 lines, but man do we need a defense hardcore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 We still need cogs on the bottom 2 lines, but man do we need a defense hardcore. Not saying that we may not need some tweeks, but Lou's priority right now has to be Defense-- in particular if we lose Martin. I think there is enough young promise for the third line, especially with Johnny Mac coaching the kids last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 This defense is going to drive me nuts. I don't know what happened with Martin's arm, but yeah I'm sure there's a story there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 (edited) Please tell me this is a joke. Our biggest offensive need has been a 2nd line center, we got it in Arnott. Our forwards are done. The focus for Lou should be on defense. It's the same team as last year but with Arnott. Do you really believe that team can do it offensively? I agree we need at least one PMD, though. I'd like two to be honest. Edited June 30, 2010 by Jerzey Devil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 It's the same team as last year but with Arnott. Do you really believe that team can do it offensively? I agree we need at least one PMD, though. I'd like two to be honest. Easily. First the first time in years we have a legit #2 center which will help both Elias and Rolston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 It's the same team as last year but with Arnott. Do you really believe that team can do it offensively? I agree we need at least one PMD, though. I'd like two to be honest. Easily. First the first time in years we have a legit #2 center which will help both Elias and Rolston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
run_to_the_ditch Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I'm planning for the worst and hoping for the best. I doubt Martin comes back. As for Kovalchuk sure he's going to listen to other offers, who wouldnt. If he really wants to stay he will but he's also going to want a nice offer. It's all a part of the game...hopefully this time it will be a game the Devils will win. Anything is possible, how crazy would it be for the Devils to sign Kovalchuk and then the Nets get King James? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Easily. First the first time in years we have a legit #2 center which will help both Elias and Rolston. Personally I would have liked to see more of a change to the offense but I appreciate your optimism. I honestly don't think it's enough to keep up with the league's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-SS Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I just hope that when Lou says that he is going to do some big changes that are going to surprises ppl he wasn't talking about 1 or 2 of his mistery player signing because right now I don't see nothing surprising in his move unless you are talking about letting Martin move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Personally I would have liked to see more of a change to the offense but I appreciate your optimism. I honestly don't think it's enough to keep up with the league's best. Arnott gives us something we haven't had in a while: Two lines of offense. It's enough. But it doesn't matter unless we re-sign Martin otherwise, we won't be making the playoffs anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Please sign Kovy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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