Hextall to become new Flyers' GM

[MadDog2020]

Holmgren elevated to President: http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/source-flyers-promote-hextall-gm-holmgren-president

[DevsMan84]

Looks like Holmgren got kicked upstairs

[devlman]

LOL

[Devils731]

It's worked so well for Garth Snow

[Triumph]

In fairness to both Snow and Hextall, Snow basically walked out of his goalie pads into the GM job.  Hextall has been a scout and AGM ever since he retired, I remember him being interviewed at a Devils game the season after he hung them up.

 

The real problem with the Flyers is that they keep kicking people upstairs.  Bobby Clarke still works for the team in some capacity.

[devilsrule33]

In fairness to both Snow and Hextall, Snow basically walked out of his goalie pads into the GM job.  Hextall has been a scout and AGM ever since he retired, I remember him being interviewed at a Devils game the season after he hung them up.

 

The real problem with the Flyers is that they keep kicking people upstairs.  Bobby Clarke still works for the team in some capacity.

 

Ya, I didn't get the joke. Hextall has been in scouting/management for 15 years now. 

 

It really does seem awkward what the Flyers are doing. They push Clarke out for Holmgren and give him a "promotion". Then they push Holmgren out for Hextall and give him a "promotion". The whole thing was odd since Hextall left LA to be the GM very soon. Not sure Holmgren was ever happy about that.

 

While we were at it...lets not ever call a GM being forced out as a promotion. 

[Derlique]

Hextall says he will look at analytics along with the eye test. If that's the case then maybe signings and trades like the MacDonald's and Schenn's will be gone, which of course would be bad news for us. He also talked about Philly needing to improve their 5v5 play.

I think he'll (sadly) do a good job

[Daniel]

In fairness to both Snow and Hextall, Snow basically walked out of his goalie pads into the GM job.  Hextall has been a scout and AGM ever since he retired, I remember him being interviewed at a Devils game the season after he hung them up.

 

The real problem with the Flyers is that they keep kicking people upstairs.  Bobby Clarke still works for the team in some capacity.

 

I wonder if kicking people upstairs has something to do with what's in their contracts, moreso than guys like Bobby Clarke (or now Holmgren) having any real decision making authority. 

 

But Holmgren might not actually be a bad guy to keep around.  On his watch, either as GM or assistant GM, the Flyers made some very savvy draft picks, and a lot of his trades have actually proven to be very good.  While blasted at the time, the Richards trade has been really good for the Flyers.  Both Schenn, who should only get better, and Simmonds had more points than Richards this year, and by a pretty healthy margin.  Same with the Carter trade.  Vorachek has more points than Carter since the trade, and Couturier is still very young and should turn into a more effective player.   The Pronger trade worked very well, but for the concussions, which is not something you can really pin on the GM.   Obviously, he was fleeced in other deals, and he let a very good goalie slip through his fingers.  But ultimately he built a team that you can usually count on to make the playoffs and that managed to go on a few pretty good runs.  There are GMs that do a whole lot worse, yet seem to have been around forever. 

[devilsrule33]

I wonder if kicking people upstairs has something to do with what's in their contracts, moreso than guys like Bobby Clarke (or now Holmgren) having any real decision making authority. 

 

But Holmgren might not actually be a bad guy to keep around.  On his watch, either as GM or assistant GM, the Flyers made some very savvy draft picks, and a lot of his trades have actually proven to be very good.  While blasted at the time, the Richards trade has been really good for the Flyers.  Both Schenn, who should only get better, and Simmonds had more points than Richards this year, and by a pretty healthy margin.  Same with the Carter trade.  Vorachek has more points than Carter since the trade, and Couturier is still very young and should turn into a more effective player.   The Pronger trade worked very well, but for the concussions, which is not something you can really pin on the GM.   Obviously, he was fleeced in other deals, and he let a very good goalie slip through his fingers.  But ultimately he built a team that you can usually count on to make the playoffs and that managed to go on a few pretty good runs.  There are GMs that do a whole lot worse, yet seem to have been around forever. 

 

He fvcked up with the Pronger contract. Pronger signed it when he was 34, but the contract was only to be started when he turned 35. Not sure if he thought he was being savy, or just didn't care.

Edited May 7, 2014 by devilsrule33

[MadDog2020]

I think Hextall will do well too. He's paid his dues and learned the business side of the game. His path, or one similar to it, are what players that want careers as GM's should all have to follow.

[Triumph]

Those trades are good by accident - the Flyers dismantled a team that went to the Stanley Cup Finals the year before, one with an elite defenseman who was getting old and only had a short window to be great.  You also have to factor in the giant goalie signing which was a calamity, the 35+ contract given to Pronger that Holmgren did not think was 35+ (even though the CBA is incredibly clear on this point).  So yeah, Mike Richards is aging faster than you might expect and that contract isn't looking too hot these days.

 

Both the Carter and Richards trades are wins from an asset perspective and have kept the Flyers an okay team despite getting poor to mediocre goaltending.  And yes, the Flyers draft very well too, although it's strange how they draft excellent forwards and cannot draft D at all, but the team is a mess of bad contracts and overall average talent, and there isn't a ton in the pipeline to help out.  Gostisbehere might be something, Laughton looks to be another solid player, but they don't have much else there.  I also tend not to credit general managers with draft pick successes - they have too much on their plates to be scouting.

 

And let's not forget James Van Riemsdyk for Luke Schenn, probably the worst major trade of the last 3 years.  And giving away Bobrovsky for picks.  

Edited May 7, 2014 by Triumph

[Daniel]

Those trades are good by accident - the Flyers dismantled a team that went to the Stanley Cup Finals the year before, one with an elite defenseman who was getting old and only had a short window to be great.  You also have to factor in the giant goalie signing which was a calamity, the 35+ contract given to Pronger that Holmgren did not think was 35+ (even though the CBA is incredibly clear on this point).  So yeah, Mike Richards is aging faster than you might expect and that contract isn't looking too hot these days.

 

Both the Carter and Richards trades are wins from an asset perspective and have kept the Flyers an okay team despite getting poor to mediocre goaltending.  And yes, the Flyers draft very well too, although it's strange how they draft excellent forwards and cannot draft D at all, but the team is a mess of bad contracts and overall average talent, and there isn't a ton in the pipeline to help out.  Gostisbehere might be something, Laughton looks to be another solid player, but they don't have much else there.  I also tend not to credit general managers with draft pick successes - they have too much on their plates to be scouting.

 

And let's not forget James Van Riemsdyk for Luke Schenn, probably the worst major trade of the last 3 years.  And giving away Bobrovsky for picks.  

 

Since Holmgren was actually a scout, my guess is that he had more of a role in the Flyers drafting, as compared to perhaps Lou.  (As I understand how things work with the Devils, Conte basically creates the draft board, and Lou makes the ultimate decisions). 

 

I wouldn't call the Bryz signing, in and of itself, a calamity, although it could have been.  He was good enough to get the Flyers into the second round of the playoffs (the year after Carter and Richards trades) in one year, and then the Flyers were able to amnesty him. 

 

Ultimately he wasn't a great GM, but he really wasn't that terrible.  He made some good moves and some not so good ones.  There's enough there that it's not a bad idea to keep him in the organization. 

[Marshall]

The real problem with the Flyers is that they keep kicking people upstairs.  Bobby Clarke still works for the team in some capacity.

 

Which is also why I don't want any former great Devil in management roles. Hard to get rid of if they're terrible.

[Triumph]

Since Holmgren was actually a scout, my guess is that he had more of a role in the Flyers drafting, as compared to perhaps Lou.  (As I understand how things work with the Devils, Conte basically creates the draft board, and Lou makes the ultimate decisions). 

 

I wouldn't call the Bryz signing, in and of itself, a calamity, although it could have been.  He was good enough to get the Flyers into the second round of the playoffs (the year after Carter and Richards trades) in one year, and then the Flyers were able to amnesty him. 

 

Ultimately he wasn't a great GM, but he really wasn't that terrible.  He made some good moves and some not so good ones.  There's enough there that it's not a bad idea to keep him in the organization. 

 

The Flyers are paying millions upon millions of dollars to Bryzgalov for him to not play there.  That is a fiasco.

 

The Flyers got to the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2012 but they were a weak team in a weak conference.  

 

Holmgren made way too many bad moves.  This MacDonald contract is just the cherry on top - it's a horrendous move.  MacDonald is a 3rd pairing defenseman and he is being paid like a 22 minute a game player.  They only have $9M or so free to re-sign Schenn, find a backup, and improve the team, and they probably suffered bonus overages this year so that amount will be reduced.  Is Holmgren awful?  No, he made some good moves.  But I'd put him in the bottom 10 GMs in the league.

[devilsrule33]

Since Holmgren was actually a scout, my guess is that he had more of a role in the Flyers drafting, as compared to perhaps Lou.  (As I understand how things work with the Devils, Conte basically creates the draft board, and Lou makes the ultimate decisions). 

 

I wouldn't call the Bryz signing, in and of itself, a calamity, although it could have been.  He was good enough to get the Flyers into the second round of the playoffs (the year after Carter and Richards trades) in one year, and then the Flyers were able to amnesty him. 

 

Ultimately he wasn't a great GM, but he really wasn't that terrible.  He made some good moves and some not so good ones.  There's enough there that it's not a bad idea to keep him in the organization. 

 

Bryzgalov was good enough? Good enough in the sense he was better than Fleury. When was the last time a goalie won a series with an .871 save percentage. The Flyers were up 3-1 in that series having given up 22 goals in those 4 games. Fleury was bad enough so that the Flyers could overcome how awful Bryz was.

Edited May 7, 2014 by devilsrule33

[Daniel]

The Flyers are paying millions upon millions of dollars to Bryzgalov for him to not play there.  That is a fiasco.

 

The Flyers got to the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2012 but they were a weak team in a weak conference.  

 

Holmgren made way too many bad moves.  This MacDonald contract is just the cherry on top - it's a horrendous move.  MacDonald is a 3rd pairing defenseman and he is being paid like a 22 minute a game player.  They only have $9M or so free to re-sign Schenn, find a backup, and improve the team, and they probably suffered bonus overages this year so that amount will be reduced.  Is Holmgren awful?  No, he made some good moves.  But I'd put him in the bottom 10 GMs in the league.

 

The Flyers print money, so the actual dollars they have to pay Bryz don't matter all that much, if all we're talking about are the results in the standings and stat sheet. 

 

In 2012, they dispatched a very good Penguins team.  You can call it luck and bad Pittsburgh goaltending, but it counts. 

 

Perhaps the best way to sum up Holmgren is his shrewd signing of Jagr, and then his decision to let him go. 

[Daniel]

Bryzgalov was good enough? Good enough in the sense he was better than Fleury. When was the last time a goalie won a series with an .871 save percentage. The Flyers were up 3-1 in that series having given up 22 goals in those 4 games. Fleury was bad enough so that the Flyers could overcome how awful Bryz was.

 

By good enough, I mean the same way that Marty was good enough to get the Devils to the SCF in 2011-2012.  Of course Bryz was not the reason the Flyers did as well as they ultimately did.  It's just that if we're assessing Holmgren's whole body of work, and whether a particular signing was truly a disaster, you have to look at how far the team actually made it. 

[devilsrule33]

By good enough, I mean the same way that Marty was good enough to get the Devils to the SCF in 2011-2012.  Of course Bryz was not the reason the Flyers did as well as they ultimately did.  It's just that if we're assessing Holmgren's whole body of work, and whether a particular signing was truly a disaster, you have to look at how far the team actually made it. 

 

Goaltending was a major problem. So was the defense, but Bryzgalov was terrible in Philly. He went from .920 and .921 seasons to .909 and .900 along with being atrocious in the playoffs in the Penguins series and the Devils series. It was just a bad signing. It's possible that if they don't trade both Carter or Richards, keep Bobrovsky and Pronger stays healthy...well then they are back in the Cup Finals. Who knows.

 

Part of the reason they traded Richards and Carter was to get cap room to sign Bryzgalov. Is that all Holmgrem's fault? Probably not. Didn't Snider give him a mandate to improve their goaltending that off-season at all costs?

[Daniel]

Goaltending was a major problem. So was the defense, but Bryzgalov was terrible in Philly. He went from .920 and .921 seasons to .909 and .900 along with being atrocious in the playoffs in the Penguins series and the Devils series. It was just a bad signing. It's possible that if they don't trade both Carter or Richards, keep Bobrovsky and Pronger stays healthy...well then they are back in the Cup Finals. Who knows.

Part of the reason they traded Richards and Carter was to get cap room to sign Bryzgalov. Is that all Holmgrem's fault? Probably not. Didn't Snider give him a mandate to improve their goaltending that off-season at all costs?

My recollection was that Carter and Richards were traded because of "attitude" issues.

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[Lateralous]

My recollection was that Carter and Richards were traded because of "attitude" issues.

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This is correct. Living in Philly, we spent all summer listening to how those two refused to sign on for "Dry Island" and had to be traded.

Also, despite the fact that Snyder has denied it, most people around here credit the Bryzgalov signing to him and not Holmgren the way most devils fans suspect JVB was behind the Kovy contract.

[dmann422]

Yeah not too happy about this, any less input that holmgren has in on ice issues can only mean good things for Philly.