T-Devs on Thin Ice

[titans04]

Princeton for us to get a partial fix and a mix of Rangers/Flyers/Devils games. Center ice is always a good thing, but the reality is they killed off something that we at one time were very passionate about. As I've said a hundred times, I couldn't care less about who they were owned by or affiliated with, it was Trenton hockey that meant the most to us. It just so happens the Devils killed off the market. If it was the rags I would feel exactly the same way.

On the positive side we gained some great friends and the memories, especially traveling with them during the cup run in 04-05 are priceless to us.

The sooner the devils got out of trenton the better, at some point down the line maybe another team moves in, doubtful but who knows. What we do know is that status quo wasn't good enough to continue carrying on and that's been proven for a couple of years now.

[Devils1985]

Good post mortem of what happened in Trenton.

Full season ticket holder base was rumored to be under 100. That's the one thing that surprised me. I had no idea it was *that* low. I mean, that's an amazing number when you think about it and all by itself is a legitmate answer to why they closed up shop. I mean...that's not a lot of people to care about (since Chris Lamoriello only cares about those who are there, and not those who aren't).

I really didn't think there was anything about this saga that could surprise me at this point, but boy was I wrong.

BTW Albany fans, Chris Lam just made the above statement again WRT Albany attendance, so put to bed any silly thoughts that he may have learned something from Trenton.

[adam85491]

Ashmore is a bit of a whiney little bitch, and if I recall, a NY fan, so it's more than a little annoying to read his sob story article.

Fact of the matter is, a new minor league team could come in, but I wouldn't go. There's no reason for me. If I'm gonna make a 45 minute drive to a hockey game, it's got to have some sort of meaning (like it or not, the T-Devs provided this due to the name and chance of seeing developing prospects for the organization). A non-Devils affiliate lacks this, and I'll drive the extra hour to see the big boys play in Newark.

[devilsfan26]

Ashmore is a bit of a whiney little bitch, and if I recall, a NY fan, so it's more than a little annoying to read his sob story article.

Fact of the matter is, a new minor league team could come in, but I wouldn't go. There's no reason for me. If I'm gonna make a 45 minute drive to a hockey game, it's got to have some sort of meaning (like it or not, the T-Devs provided this due to the name and chance of seeing developing prospects for the organization). A non-Devils affiliate lacks this, and I'll drive the extra hour to see the big boys play in Newark.

I guess that is a fair point, but realize that there are far more fans who were put off by the rebranding of the team than were brought in because of it, so even thought it may have attracted you and a handful of others, it was still a suicidal idea.

[LousBallsack]

Ashmore is a bit of a whiney little bitch, and if I recall, a NY fan, so it's more than a little annoying to read his sob story article.

Why is it annoying? What in that article isn't accurate?

The way people line up to have Lou's balls rest on their chins never ceases to amaze me.

[DevsMan84]

I just read that article and if what the author says is accurate, then basically the T-Devs succumbed to the Lou & Chris Lam. school of marketing death. They basically sucked the life out of minor league level of play where it is supposed to be fun. I go to Somerset Patriots minor league baseball games once in a while and I really do not care for baseball at any level, but I do find it to be an entertaining time and they run fun promotions that the big leagues would never allow.

The Lamoriello's big league stance on running bush league teams is well....bush league.

[Devils1985]

Ashmore is a bit of a whiney little bitch, and if I recall, a NY fan, so it's more than a little annoying to read his sob story article.

Fact of the matter is, a new minor league team could come in, but I wouldn't go. There's no reason for me. If I'm gonna make a 45 minute drive to a hockey game, it's got to have some sort of meaning (like it or not, the T-Devs provided this due to the name and chance of seeing developing prospects for the organization). A non-Devils affiliate lacks this, and I'll drive the extra hour to see the big boys play in Newark.

LOL, look who’s the whiny bitch.

Seriously, if you still think the ECHL is a true development league then you’re as deluded as Lou and Chris are.

I don’t know how more evidence you need than about 100 full season ticket holders. That can’t be described as anything other than a complete fail and since Lou & Chris were so adamant they run the entire show, the fail is 100% theirs.

I don’t think purely changing the name was suicidal, but changing it and simultaneously having no understanding of what the ECHL is and how to run a successful minor league business was.

There is zero evidence that the Lamoriellos know anything about running a successful minor league business; there’s plenty to suggest they don’t. I give you ‘we don’t worry about the people that aren’t here’ when facing near empty arenas as Exhibit A.

[adam85491]

The idea behind it was to continue to reach and extend the fanbase throughout the entire state. It provided fans in central and southern New Jersey a chance to watch Devils hockey for cheap, without going all the way up to Newark. This idea didn't work, since a huge portion of the state does not get MSG+ (Vanderbeek thinks the entire state gets it, according to a ticket rep I've spoken to) and thus, isn't exposed to Devils hockey at all. Couple that with the fact that NJD tickets are sometimes lower than Trenton, and no promotion was really ever done to push the Devils brand, it's easy to see why people stayed away from a Devils minor league team that never had much to show on the ice.

At the end of the day, the team would've been more exposed if the Devils were on TV in the lower half of the state, and more of an exposure/fanbase was built up for Trenton to fall back on.

As for people jumping to Ashmores defense (or attacking me for some strange reason), I just don't agree with you. It's AA hockey, these teams are successful in markets with no major league teams (there's essentially 5 in our area). You can cry all you want, I'll miss the team too, but if you live in or north of Trenton, I see no reason why you wouldn't go to Newark to see the NJD play....And as for allowing prospects to sign with other AHL teams, well, that's just retarded. Why the fvck would you own a farm team for everyone elses benefit? Don't compare other ECHL teams, none of them were owned and operated by an NHL club.

Edited July 8, 2011 by adam85491

[DevsMan84]

The idea behind it was to continue to reach and extend the fanbase throughout the entire state. It provided fans in central and southern New Jersey a chance to watch Devils hockey for cheap, without going all the way up to Newark. This idea didn't work, since a huge portion of the state does not get MSG+ (Vanderbeek thinks the entire state gets it, according to a ticket rep I've spoken to) and thus, isn't exposed to Devils hockey at all. Couple that with the fact that NJD tickets are sometimes lower than Trenton, and no promotion was really ever done to push the Devils brand, it's easy to see why people stayed away from a Devils minor league team that never had much to show on the ice.

At the end of the day, the team would've been more exposed if the Devils were on TV in the lower half of the state, and more of an exposure/fanbase was built up for Trenton to fall back on.

I really doubt for his sake Vanderbeek doesn't think all of NJ gets MSG+. Maybe the ticket rep meant that JVB says that the state could get Devils hockey if you subscribe to a package or something. Or it could be that the rep is talking out of his ass which has happened to me before with the reps.

[Devil Dan 56]

As for people jumping to Ashmores defense (or attacking me for some strange reason), I just don't agree with you. It's AA hockey, these teams are successful in markets with no major league teams (there's essentially 5 in our area). You can cry all you want, I'll miss the team too, but if you live in or north of Trenton, I see no reason why you wouldn't go to Newark to see the NJD play....And as for allowing prospects to sign with other AHL teams, well, that's just retarded. Why the fvck would you own a farm team for everyone elses benefit? Don't compare other ECHL teams, none of them were owned and operated by an NHL club.

And that's one of the reasons it failed. Everyone who plays there is not a prospect. It's NOT a farm team, and they tried to make it that by throwing a few low-end prospects down there and then signing whoever would show up.

The ECHL was never much of a development league, so players there are usually on the way down, or as someone explained before, hoping to get picked up for the AHL. If you can sign with Trenton or Elmira, and in Trenton the only place to go is Albany, but in Elmira, you could sign with whatever AHL team offers to sign you if you aren't NHL property, why would you choose Trenton?

[Devils1985]

I just read that article and if what the author says is accurate, then basically the T-Devs succumbed to the Lou & Chris Lam. school of marketing death. They basically sucked the life out of minor league level of play where it is supposed to be fun. I go to Somerset Patriots minor league baseball games once in a while and I really do not care for baseball at any level, but I do find it to be an entertaining time and they run fun promotions that the big leagues would never allow.

The Lamoriello's big league stance on running bush league teams is well....bush league.

That’s about right. I’m the minority, and I know it. I went for the hockey. I went for the time Trevor Kell blasted a Royal through the glass and then helped him out of the first row. I went for the 9-7 barnburner that occurred on Scott Bertoli night. I went for that five minute stretch at the end where after sleepwalking their way to a 3-0 hole they got a couple quick ones and had me on the edge of my seat as they fought and scrapped for the tying goal. I’m a complete and total sucker and forget about the 55 minutes of garbage and those 5 minute bursts kept me coming back. ECHL hockey is mostly mediocre. But you have moments; you have Jeff Prough’s end to end rush the playoff year that I have on DVD that was just an amazing piece of hockey. The whole Championship run. Blowing a 2-0 Finals lead and going down 2-0 in game 5 before an incredible 5 goal spurt sent them down to Florida to win it in 6. The sole T Devil playoff series vs Elmira that was just amazing even though they lost; they just ran out of gas and bodies at the end and even though you knew even if they had won game 7 they were toast the next round…you still hurt for the guys as everyone watched it slip away; it was so patently obvious they had nothing left to give.

That stuff…that’s why I went.

I don’t remember the gimmicks, the promotions, etc…..I didn’t go for that. But I don’t keep minor league hockey teams in business. Families looking for a fun night out do, and not enough people had enough fun to get them to come back. Devils, Flyers, Rangers, blah blah blah. Those families didn’t care about that. They just wanted to have fun.

[devilsfan26]

The idea behind it was to continue to reach and extend the fanbase throughout the entire state. It provided fans in central and southern New Jersey a chance to watch Devils hockey for cheap, without going all the way up to Newark. This idea didn't work, since a huge portion of the state does not get MSG+ (Vanderbeek thinks the entire state gets it, according to a ticket rep I've spoken to) and thus, isn't exposed to Devils hockey at all. Couple that with the fact that NJD tickets are sometimes lower than Trenton, and no promotion was really ever done to push the Devils brand, it's easy to see why people stayed away from a Devils minor league team that never had much to show on the ice.

At the end of the day, the team would've been more exposed if the Devils were on TV in the lower half of the state, and more of an exposure/fanbase was built up for Trenton to fall back on.

As for people jumping to Ashmores defense (or attacking me for some strange reason), I just don't agree with you. It's AA hockey, these teams are successful in markets with no major league teams (there's essentially 5 in our area). You can cry all you want, I'll miss the team too, but if you live in or north of Trenton, I see no reason why you wouldn't go to Newark to see the NJD play....And as for allowing prospects to sign with other AHL teams, well, that's just retarded. Why the fvck would you own a farm team for everyone elses benefit? Don't compare other ECHL teams, none of them were owned and operated by an NHL club.

None of that TV stuff is as relevant as the fact that most of the Titans fans were already NHL fans and weren't going to switch from the Flyers and Rangers to the Devils regardless of if the Devils games were on TV in their area. The rebranding lost at least half of the fanbase immediately, and really it was probably more than that, so right off the bat they had to attract almost an entire new fanbase and even of the hockey fans who weren't Titans fans, most of them were Rangers or Flyers fans and weren't going to root for any Devils team.

As for "Why the fvck would you own a farm team for everyone elses benefit?" The Devils should not have bought the team in the first place. Also, as mentioned previously in this thread, if you are a player who thinks he has a chance at cracking an AHL lineup, why on Earth would you sign with the Trenton Devils knowing you only have one AHL team you could possibly make? It was a recipe for failure from the start.

[mxm262]

Mike Ashmore IMO has done a great job. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was more of a hobby for him & it got him some freelance work as a result. It was also the only real coverage of the team out there. What does it matter who he is a fan of?

Nothing I can say about the T-Devils hasn't already been posted here. I didn't live close, but averaged 5-6 games a year so to sit on the glass. My kid got pucks, hi-fives, even a broken stick once. Any minor leauge need the focus on the game-day experience / fun for the families. The Devils didn't.

The Phantoms did an excellent job of that. Baseball teams like the Thuner & Blueclaws do a fanstastic job of that is well.

Personally I hope someone can re-lauch in Trenton in the next year or so. And that "Point" thing sounds interesting if its legit at all, thats right around the corner for me.

In the meantime, anyone have suggestions on a subsitute for the T-Devils? Something where the kiddies can get up close a couple times a year. I guess college is the only thing left?

[Devils1985]

I know several people who switched over the years to go see Princeton hockey.

[mac760]

I know several people who switched over the years to go see Princeton hockey.

I was going to say the same. Small venue. You can get nice and close with planning. Having another Ivy League rival team in town though can make getting tickets more challenging.

Rutgers has a team. From my understanding a lower level of competition from Princeton.

[devilsfan26]

I was going to say the same. Small venue. You can get nice and close with planning. Having another Ivy League rival team in town though can make getting tickets more challenging.

Rutgers has a team. From my understanding a lower level of competition from Princeton.

Yea Rutgers plays in the ACHA, not the NCAA. They are a real good ACHA team though, they have finished in the top 16 in the country the past two years. It is a lower level than Princeton but when you're talking about college or the pros, it's all good hockey, it's not like you would be showing up to watch a men's league game or something, these games are all very fast-paced and feature very good players. I work at the rink Rutgers plays at (ProtecHockey Ponds in Somerset, just off Easton Ave and Exit 10 on I-287), and their games are a fun time. It's a new local rink, not a big professional arena, but it's still good local hockey at a cheap price.

[twillms73]

There are solid ACHA programs all over NJ. William Paterson plays in Wayne and is one of the top teams in ACHA's D2. I've been involved with the ACHA since 1999 and the quality of play has really improved a lot over the past few years. They've even sent players to the lower levels of minor-pro hockey and Europe. I do radio for Rowan and they usually get about 200-300 fans a game in a tiny barn in Sewell. Also, Rider gets a great crowd in their rink in Lawrenceville. On a side note, the ACHA's D3 National Tournament will be in Vineland, NJ in March. I've done that tournament the last 2 years. Some great hockey there.

Yea Rutgers plays in the ACHA, not the NCAA. They are a real good ACHA team though, they have finished in the top 16 in the country the past two years. It is a lower level than Princeton but when you're talking about college or the pros, it's all good hockey, it's not like you would be showing up to watch a men's league game or something, these games are all very fast-paced and feature very good players. I work at the rink Rutgers plays at (ProtecHockey Ponds in Somerset, just off Easton Ave and Exit 10 on I-287), and their games are a fun time. It's a new local rink, not a big professional arena, but it's still good local hockey at a cheap price.

[twillms73]

In addition to my ACHA post, the Trenton Habs Junior club could be an option. They also play out of the Sun Center. www.trentonhabs.com

If you want minor-pro, there is a new team playing in Wayne called the New Jersey Outlaws. It's low-level "single-A" but the quality of play is pretty good. www.newjerseyoutlaws.com

Mike Ashmore IMO has done a great job. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was more of a hobby for him & it got him some freelance work as a result. It was also the only real coverage of the team out there. What does it matter who he is a fan of?

Nothing I can say about the T-Devils hasn't already been posted here. I didn't live close, but averaged 5-6 games a year so to sit on the glass. My kid got pucks, hi-fives, even a broken stick once. Any minor leauge need the focus on the game-day experience / fun for the families. The Devils didn't.

The Phantoms did an excellent job of that. Baseball teams like the Thuner & Blueclaws do a fanstastic job of that is well.

Personally I hope someone can re-lauch in Trenton in the next year or so. And that "Point" thing sounds interesting if its legit at all, thats right around the corner for me.

In the meantime, anyone have suggestions on a subsitute for the T-Devils? Something where the kiddies can get up close a couple times a year. I guess college is the only thing left?

[MantaRay]

The kiss of death for this franchise was renaming the Titans the "Devils" when playing in the Philly market.

[Devils1985]

In addition to my ACHA post, the Trenton Habs Junior club could be an option. They also play out of the Sun Center. www.trentonhabs.com

*blinks confusedly*

Um, wow. Never knew about them...interesting.

[mac760]

*blinks confusedly*

Um, wow. Never knew about them...interesting.

Lou and Chris handled their marketing too.

Thank you twillms. Great info.

[mxm262]

Thanks for the info all. Think I may give Princton a try first. Never heard of the Junior Habs either. Heck if its still the Sun Center that works too.

[Devils1985]

Lou and Chris handled their marketing too.

Thank you twillms. Great info.

They have a T Devils banner on their site even, and I don’t ever remember hearing about them at the games (it may have been mentioned and I don’t remember…). I find this option very interesting as the arena is by far more convenient for us than any of the other options.

[mac760]

They have a T Devils banner on their site even, and I don’t ever remember hearing about them at the games (it may have been mentioned and I don’t remember…). I find this option very interesting as the arena is by far more convenient for us than any of the other options.

From the look of their schedule it doesn't appear all their home games are in Trenton.

[Devils1985]

Maybe they will be next season...certainly have the openings.....