T-Devs on Thin Ice

[hurricane1091]

People always mention these promises and say they did things wrong, but no one has every actually said what these supposed promises were and what they should of done instead. YOU try filling the seats in that slump of a town and let me know how it goes.

[DevsMan84]

Let me get this through your head.

Attendance was dropping significantly.

Money was a huge issue after the cup run.

NJ saved hockey in Trenton.

I almost wish they didn't, as then there would be no hatred for NJ like there is now. Let the Flyers take the credit for reviving the city (they are just slapping their name on the team to be an affiliate, there's no money coming from them). New Jersey should have just let them die, Philly had no problems doing it.

Money is a huge issue for a lot of minor league teams at that level. When the Devils came in they were supposed to fix that problem as they were an NHL-level club running and affliating themselves with team that is about a A or AA equivelent. Did the Devils follow through? Looks like instead they were left out to pasture by Lou and Chris after slapping the Devils name on them.

People always mention these promises and say they did things wrong, but no one has every actually said what these supposed promises were and what they should of done instead. YOU try filling the seats in that slump of a town and let me know how it goes.

Here is an example. How many signings and appearances from the NJ Devils occured since the Devils bought the team? One of the promises was that some players were supposed to come down the turnpike to help promote the team.

[adam85491]

At the end of the day the first time I went was when there was a NJ logo on the ice. I wanted it to work. I am not a Titans fan, I'm a Devils fan. It hurts to lose the team you support.

[Devilsfan118]

Here is an example. How many signings and appearances from the NJ Devils occured since the Devils bought the team? One of the promises was that some players were supposed to come down the turnpike to help promote the team.

How many Trenton Devils fans (Not fans of only the big club; fans of the T-Devils) would actually show if Zach Parise came down to Trenton for a few hours though? Not many, I'd guess

At the end of the day the first time I went was when there was a NJ logo on the ice. I wanted it to work. I am not a Titans fan, I'm a Devils fan. It hurts to lose the team you support.

Atlanta fans say hello and remind you that at least you only lost an ECHL team

Edited July 28, 2011 by Devilsfan118

[Random Poster]

How many Trenton Devils fans (Not fans of only the big club; fans of the T-Devils) would actually show if Zach Parise came down to Trenton for a few hours though? Not many, I'd guess

The line would be around the block. Count on it. He's an NHL star, no matter the team he plays for.

Edited July 28, 2011 by SJP20

[RowdyFan42]

Are you suggesting that the plan should not include step 1: "Alienate fans of previous team."

You know, I think that actually was the plan.

1. Alienate fans of previous team.

2. ?????

3. Profit!

I said it was not for me and it's fairly disgusting to see the selfishness the Trenton fans seem to have (all they have been doing is badmouthing Lou, Chris, and the organization.) Be glad the Titans are there instead of no one, that's one thing...to read all this crap about hating JVB and LL for "ruining" Trenton is just nauseating. It's well known that attendance was dying off and finances were limited before NJ ever got involved (and saved hockey in Trenton).

No?

[Triumph]

affiliating an ECHL team with an NHL team is silly because rarely do they ever meet. they could call this team coming to wayne, nj the 'devils' and the devils could own them, it wouldn't make them have anything to do with the new jersey devils, it'd make them a semi-pro hockey team who happen to be called the devils.

[Devilsfan118]

The line would be around the block. Count on it. He's an NHL star, no matter the team he plays for.

Fair enough, I guess I just have a completely wrong picture of the T-Devils and their fan base in my head. Admittedly I've only been to a handful of games recently

[Triumph]

Fair enough, I guess I just have a completely wrong picture of the T-Devils and their fan base in my head. Admittedly I've only been to a handful of games recently

fwiw, i agree with you. unknown poster made a silly comparison, which he deleted, where he said he would go to a ryan callahan signing. how many people, even on this board of hockey mad people, would go to a ranger signing?

but i suspect the devils poisoned the well right when they called the team the devils and that was that.

[Random Poster]

Fair enough, I guess I just have a completely wrong picture of the T-Devils and their fan base in my head. Admittedly I've only been to a handful of games recently

Well, it's the image of Flyer orange lol. Parise brings the people out, though, even if those Flyer fans just look at him as a popular USA player and block out he's a Devil.

[Random Poster]

fwiw, i agree with you. unknown poster made a silly comparison, which he deleted, where he said he would go to a ryan callahan signing. how many people, even on this board of hockey mad people, would go to a ranger signing?

I deleted it because i knew someone like you would find a comment on it and you didn't dissapoint.

I'd go because it's free. I wouldn't be the only one who is a Devils fan to do so, either. He's a USA Olympian as well, should i not go get a photo signed in an USA uniform or since he's a Ranger, that's disallowed in your all knowing eyes?

[DevsMan84]

FWIW I would go to a Callahan signing if free. Like unknown poster said it is free and he was in the Olympics.

[Triumph]

I deleted it because i knew someone like you would find a comment on it and you didn't dissapoint.

I'd go because it's free. I wouldn't be the only one who is a Devils fan to do so, either. He's a USA Olympian as well, should i not go get a photo signed in an USA uniform or since he's a Ranger, that's disallowed in your all knowing eyes?

that's not what i said. you were generalizing from your viewpoint saying you'd go to a callahan signing. and i asked, honestly, how many other people from this board would go? you saying you'd go and 100 people saying they wouldn't go doesn't make them right and you wrong, i was just pointing out that generalizing from your personal view may not be correct in this instance.

[LousBallsack]

Let the Flyers take the credit for reviving the city (they are just slapping their name on the team to be an affiliate, there's no money coming from them). New Jersey should have just let them die, Philly had no problems doing it.

You've really got your finger on the pulse here. Didn't realize the Flyers were the new buyers.

90 percent of the T-Devs fanbase will come and support the Titans. You and the other 11 T-Devs fans that make up the other 10 percent won't.

It's ironic that the same people that give Flyers fans grief for having not supported the T-Devs turn around and talk about how they won't support the Titans for the exact same reasons.

Go figure.

[Devils1985]

Atlanta fans say hello and remind you that at least you only lost an ECHL team

Nice thing is we lost one but gained another one; except Adam I guess, except again he didn't really go so he lost the "idea" of a Devils ECHL team. The rest of us lost a team we actually spent money on and emotionally invested ourselves in. Met the players, went to the radio shows at local eateries, all that stuff, so frankly Adam's opinion doesn't mean squat to me.

We've already signed up for our seats, my wife is at the press conference now. And bought the new T shirts they have out.

Rich Lisk, the GM, presided over the Titans during a very successful period, and he also is GM of the Trenton Steel indoor football team, so I can see some tie ins there.

[devilsfan26]

Anyone that says "good riddance" to the Devils is NOT a devils fan. Plain and simple. I am a Devils fan (new jersey, trenton, albany, utica, it has never mattered). I thought there was more people like me.

Enjoy rooting for the flyers and their growing fanbase in jersey. I won't.

Plain. And. Simple.

I have no interest in these "Titans". They are a affiliated with a team I absolutely hate, and I just can't see having interest in them. I never just went and caught a phantoms game because it was 10 minutes away, why would I go see their other minor league team play?

I said it was not for me and it's fairly disgusting to see the selfishness the Trenton fans seem to have (all they have been doing is badmouthing Lou, Chris, and the organization.) Be glad the Titans are there instead of no one, that's one thing...to read all this crap about hating JVB and LL for "ruining" Trenton is just nauseating. It's well known that attendance was dying off and finances were limited before NJ ever got involved (and saved hockey in Trenton).

No?

At the end of the day the first time I went was when there was a NJ logo on the ice. I wanted it to work. I am not a Titans fan, I'm a Devils fan. It hurts to lose the team you support.

Hey well guess what, I love New Jersey and I love hockey so I am a New Jersey hockey fan. I love the Devils and the Titans. I became a Titans fan because it was fun and affordable (when I was in high school we used to get a weekend ticket plan for like $110), it was local hockey, and the affiliation at that level means diddly-poo. This isn't the Phantoms, a lot of the Phantoms end up on the Flyers roster. The Titans had almost nothing to do with the Flyers, almost none of their players ever moved up that high, and it's not like there was Flyers stuff on their jerseys or in the arena. You continue to stubbornly ignore this fact. I was happy when I saw the Devils would be owning the Trenton team, as I'm sure most Titans fans who are also Devils fans were. Unfortunately, it failed miserably. The games were NOTHING like Titans games, not even close. The drop in attendance wasn't a natural progression from the Titans era, it was drastically exacerbated by alienating not just a good chunk of the fanbase, but the majority of the fanbase. The game atmosphere was terrible compared to Titans games, I felt like I was at a library. It was not the same at all. I know you're going to read this and ignore it like you have been doing throughout this entire thread, but facts are facts.

I rooted for the Trenton Devils and wanted them to succeed financially and on the ice, but it was evident this was not going to be the case with the Devils running the show, and I continued to be a fan of the team even though it was so disheartening to see how much it has changed for the worse because of my favorite NHL team coming in and screwing it up. It doesn't make me any less of a Devils fan for realizing this. I never rooted against the Trenton Devils, just wished it would go back to the way it used to be.

The Devils didn't save Trenton hockey, they killed it, and the Flyers aren't reviving it, the Titans are.

Edited July 28, 2011 by devilsfan26

[Random Poster]

that's not what i said. you were generalizing from your viewpoint saying you'd go to a callahan signing.

I'd go to a Callahan signing for the same reason some random Flyer fan would go to a Parise signing at a Trenton game. It's free autograph of an NHL player/Olympian and it's in my town.

and i asked, honestly, how many other people from this board would go?

What you did was take a shot at my comparison calling it "silly" because you looked at it as a Ranger/Devils thing without looking at it from another POV. Why wouldn't Flyer fans go to Parise and look at him as an NHL star (and USA Olympian) signing free autographs?

Besides who cares how many people from this board would go? No offense to anyone, that is. I'm still trying to figure out why more people don't attend our own player's signings. Do you go to any?

you saying you'd go and 100 people saying they wouldn't go doesn't make them right and you wrong, i was just pointing out that generalizing from your personal view may not be correct in this instance.

But it's a basis to consider that not everything is black and white. Not everyone looks at it as a NJD/NYR/PHI thing as you do (or others).

Edited July 28, 2011 by SJP20

[RowdyFan42]

I think I figured out where the disconnect is. Most of us who are arguing that the Devils "destroyed" the minor-league markets they have operated in recently -- Trenton, Albany, and Lowell -- are from those areas. They were our local teams. Our allegiance or lack thereof to the NHL Devils is irrelevant because they don't have our cities on their chest. You might be able to argue that the NJ crest ought to be enough for NJ residents, but for someone in the Trenton area, of course they're going to have just as much allegiance to the city of Trenton as they are to the state of New Jersey as a whole.

On the other hand, you have Adam and the handful of people who agree with him, and they don't seem to understand that dynamic. I think the reason is that for them, the NHL Devils ARE their local team. They have no reason to care about Trenton because they're from different parts of the state. They can't conceive a situation where you wouldn't want the Devils to come in and be your local team. It's not a failing on their parts, just a misunderstanding of what others have gone through: watching the Devils come in to some admittedly bad situations and somehow making things worse. The worst management they've seen from the Devils -- take your pick from a number of questionable and flat-out putrid post-lockout decisions -- doesn't even compare to what Lou and Chris have done elsewhere to other people's teams, so they truly don't get the frustrations. Again, it's not really their fault, they just don't have the perspective that we do.

Adam makes a good point that had it not been for Lou and JVB, Trenton could have lost the ECHL years ago. Same thing with Lowell and Albany; the Lock Monsters might have ceased to exist had the Devils not bought them, and Albany could very well be without the AHL had the Devils not moved back there. It doesn't excuse the constant bumbling once they arrive, though. After a while, one does start to wonder if something is truly better than nothing.

[DaneykoIsGod]

Enjoy rooting for the flyers and their growing fanbase in jersey.

The team will not be the Flyers, it'll be the Titans. It won't be a Philadelphia team, it'll be a Trenton team. It won't be owned by the Flyers, it'll be "associated" with them. That means the roster won't be entirely comprised of Flyers prospects, it'll be a mix of Flyers prospects and players under Titans or ECHL contracts.

Which, unless I'm mistaken, means it's entirely possible that there could be Devils prospects under ECHL contract on the Titans roster.

[Devils1985]

The Devils didn't save Trenton hockey, they killed it, and the Flyers aren't reviving it, the Titans are.

Nicely put. Remember also this is the organization that thought pulling home games from their minor league cities and moving them to AC (where a very successful team already failed because no one went) for absolutely no good reason whatsoever was a bright idea. And to exacerbate it the Albany opponent was the Phantoms, ensuring a high level of Philly fan turnout. And the ice sucked making the whole thing a complete fustercluck.

That entire event nicely sums up the Devils minor league operations top to bottom.

That and Chris Lamoriello’s statement “we don’t concern ourselves with the people that aren’t here”. The ignorance of that statement continues to astound me.

[Triumph]

unknown poster:

again, you are generalizing your experience into a universal, so how am i supposed to disagree? if everyone agrees with you (and they seem to, based on what you're saying here), where's the possible conflict? my point was simple: maybe not everyone agrees with you on this point. maybe they do, i don't know. as for me, i would never attend a signing, devil or otherwise, but i don't begrudge those who do, and i'm not generalizing from my experience that since i don't go to these things, no one else does either.

[LousBallsack]

I think I figured out where the disconnect is. Most of us who are arguing that the Devils "destroyed" the minor-league markets they have operated in recently -- Trenton, Albany, and Lowell -- are from those areas. They were our local teams. Our allegiance or lack thereof to the NHL Devils is irrelevant because they don't have our cities on their chest. You might be able to argue that the NJ crest ought to be enough for NJ residents, but for someone in the Trenton area, of course they're going to have just as much allegiance to the city of Trenton as they are to the state of New Jersey as a whole.

On the other hand, you have Adam and the handful of people who agree with him, and they don't seem to understand that dynamic. I think the reason is that for them, the NHL Devils ARE their local team. They have no reason to care about Trenton because they're from different parts of the state. They can't conceive a situation where you wouldn't want the Devils to come in and be your local team. It's not a failing on their parts, just a misunderstanding of what others have gone through: watching the Devils come in to some admittedly bad situations and somehow making things worse. The worst management they've seen from the Devils -- take your pick from a number of questionable and flat-out putrid post-lockout decisions -- doesn't even compare to what Lou and Chris have done elsewhere to other people's teams, so they truly don't get the frustrations. Again, it's not really their fault, they just don't have the perspective that we do.

Good God - We could've saved ourselves 14 pages of arguing - this sums things up pretty freaking well.

Well played.

Adam makes a good point that had it not been for Lou and JVB, Trenton could have lost the ECHL years ago. Same thing with Lowell and Albany; the Lock Monsters might have ceased to exist had the Devils not bought them, and Albany could very well be without the AHL had the Devils not moved back there. It doesn't excuse the constant bumbling once they arrive, though. After a while, one does start to wonder if something is truly better than nothing.

I still contend that had no one stepped in and bought the Titans, the Flyers eventually would've put the Phantoms in Trenton. Would've been a far better financial move than sticking them in an outpost like Glens Falls.

[devilsfan26]

I think I figured out where the disconnect is. Most of us who are arguing that the Devils "destroyed" the minor-league markets they have operated in recently -- Trenton, Albany, and Lowell -- are from those areas. They were our local teams. Our allegiance or lack thereof to the NHL Devils is irrelevant because they don't have our cities on their chest. You might be able to argue that the NJ crest ought to be enough for NJ residents, but for someone in the Trenton area, of course they're going to have just as much allegiance to the city of Trenton as they are to the state of New Jersey as a whole.

On the other hand, you have Adam and the handful of people who agree with him, and they don't seem to understand that dynamic. I think the reason is that for them, the NHL Devils ARE their local team. They have no reason to care about Trenton because they're from different parts of the state. They can't conceive a situation where you wouldn't want the Devils to come in and be your local team. It's not a failing on their parts, just a misunderstanding of what others have gone through: watching the Devils come in to some admittedly bad situations and somehow making things worse. The worst management they've seen from the Devils -- take your pick from a number of questionable and flat-out putrid post-lockout decisions -- doesn't even compare to what Lou and Chris have done elsewhere to other people's teams, so they truly don't get the frustrations. Again, it's not really their fault, they just don't have the perspective that we do.

Adam makes a good point that had it not been for Lou and JVB, Trenton could have lost the ECHL years ago. Same thing with Lowell and Albany; the Lock Monsters might have ceased to exist had the Devils not bought them, and Albany could very well be without the AHL had the Devils not moved back there. It doesn't excuse the constant bumbling once they arrive, though. After a while, one does start to wonder if something is truly better than nothing.

I don't know, I'm not really in the Trenton area, I'm closer to Newark. I think it's not necessarily about where you live, it's about whether or not you were a Titans fan prior to the Devils taking over, though where you live probably has a lot to do with it in most cases. Obviously adam and hurricane were not, and everyone else in this debate were.

[Devils1985]

The team will not be the Flyers, it'll be the Titans. It won't be a Philadelphia team, it'll be a Trenton team. It won't be owned by the Flyers, it'll be "associated" with them. That means the roster won't be entirely comprised of Flyers prospects, it'll be a mix of Flyers prospects and players under Titans or ECHL contracts.

Which, unless I'm mistaken, means it's entirely possible that there could be Devils prospects under ECHL contract on the Titans roster.

I am…not completely sure on this point one way or the other. We’ve had guys under NJD and AHL contracts here, and I’m sure they’ll go wherever the Devils put them. The guys that signed ECHL deals..they were still Devils deals…so I don’t know what happens there and it’s a very good question….

[Devils1985]

I still contend that had no one stepped in and bought the Titans, the Flyers eventually would've put the Phantoms in Trenton. Would've been a far better financial move than sticking them in an outpost like Glens Falls.

Oh clearly, they were banking on the Bermans not finding a buyer and folding the team, leaving a nice empty arena for them to plop the Phantoms in.

So even had the Titans folded, the place wouldn't have been dark long before hockey returned, and it would've been AHL hockey and a franchise with a strong following. Trenton hockey would’ve been fine.