We aren't getting McDavid or Eichel, it's time to realize this

[coldply123]

Jagr will absolutely be a desired quantity if he agrees to go. i could see st. louis, boston, nashville just off the top of my head and i think he could certainly bring back at least a 2nd/conditional 1st. zidlicky will also bring a second back. ryder will get maybe a 5th. gomez might get a 4th. havlat could get maybe a 6th

Nobody is trading for Ryder.

[Marshall]

why would anyone give up something for Gomez... he was as free as an old tire in a ditch for months and no one signed him.

 

That was then and this is now. 

[coldply123]

That was then and this is now.

Yup. Teams will buy if he keeps this up. He looked uninterested and limited his time last year which is what affected interest.

Honestly if I was a team looking for offensive support, some PP playmaking, but or depth at C even, I would prefer Gomez over Jagr.

Edited December 22, 2014 by coldply123

[aylbert]

I mean Scott Gomez is only 34...  he was written off with his poor efforts post 30.  But if he keeps it up, he may salvage a late career as a roleplayer.

[HellOnICE]

Because if he can sustain some output he'll have proven he can still play and someone who badly needs a center for a run or wants an extra body of a capable cheap option who has two cups may take a flier for a mid round selection

[Triumph]

The idea of Gomez over Jagr is insanity.  Jagr is still an effective player for sure.  Gomez, who knows?  I think he's gotten worse the last few games I've seen him.

[coldply123]

The idea of Gomez over Jagr is insanity. Jagr is still an effective player for sure. Gomez, who knows? I think he's gotten worse the last few games I've seen him.

So has Jagr. Jagr has a good game here or there but he's giving away pucks and taking bad penalties with alarming propensity. He also looks like a slug late in games.

Also there was a point in the Caps game where Gomez was the only one generating some open looks for guys. it was pretty amazing how many chances he was giving Ryder too in the few games prior. I don't agree at all that Gomez has looked worse. Compared to the rest of forwards, the bar is set low admittedly. Even Henrique has been a bit shaky at times.

Edited December 22, 2014 by coldply123

[ATLL765]

I just think that with Gomez that his recent track record of being god awful will scare teams away unless he can be had for a late round pick, as in 5-7th rd pick. Barely worthwhile imo. Ryder I'd dump for that, but he's absolutely fvcking worthless.

[HellOnICE]

You have to look at it from other team's perspective. I look at it from the outside thinking the Devils are terrible and he's still playing well enough for us and our much superior team to take a chance on.

[HellOnICE]

I just think that with Gomez that his recent track record of being god awful will scare teams away unless he can be had for a late round pick, as in 5-7th rd pick. Barely worthwhile imo. Ryder I'd dump for that, but he's absolutely fvcking worthless.

 

Perhaps, BUT, Gomez is cheap. If there's a team with really little cap space who wants needs some help, a warm roster body if you will, and they think Gomez a 13th forward or replacement is better than what they have in the minors or on IR  and they are contenders - then what's a 55th pick in the draft to them?

[Triumph]

Perhaps, BUT, Gomez is cheap. If there's a team with really little cap space who wants needs some help, a warm roster body if you will, and they think Gomez a 13th forward or replacement is better than what they have in the minors or on IR  and they are contenders - then what's a 55th pick in the draft to them?

 

It's not just about that - Gomez is playing more this year than he has since 2010-11.  He's playing on the top power play unit and on our first line.  Where else will he get that kind of opportunity?  Playoff teams make the playoffs because they don't have guys like Scott Gomez doing these things.  I don't really think dealing for a guy like Gomez and expecting him to be your 13th forward is really a good move.

[Zubie#8]

Id re-sign gomez for next year. Trading him won't get anything and this team needs centers anyways. Hes a cheap stop-gap for now.

[coldply123]

It's not just about that - Gomez is playing more this year than he has since 2010-11.  He's playing on the top power play unit and on our first line.  Where else will he get that kind of opportunity?  Playoff teams make the playoffs because they don't have guys like Scott Gomez doing these things.  I don't really think dealing for a guy like Gomez and expecting him to be your 13th forward is really a good move.

That is a fair point but it should be applied to Jagr and his scenario as well. Who is giving him a top 6 role or 1st PP unit anymore besides a crummy team like us. Certainly not a good enough team to where he won't threaten to retire if he's traded there. I just don't see any team out there that not only needs Jagr, but wants Jagr, and will pay a good price. If you could guarantee me a 2nd round pick right now I'd pack his bags to whomever is willing to give it up.

[Triumph]

That is a fair point but it should be applied to Jagr and his scenario as well. Who is giving him a top 6 role or 1st PP unit anymore besides a crummy team like us. Certainly not a good enough team to where he won't threaten to retire if he's traded there. I just don't see any team out there that not only needs Jagr, but wants Jagr, and will pay a good price. If you could guarantee me a 2nd round pick right now I'd pack his bags to whomever is willing to give it up.

 

Jagr is still pretty clearly a top 6 forward.  He's still yanking play in the right direction.  Even if he doesn't play top PP minutes, I don't think that's where his strength is these days.  Now he may not want to leave and that's fine, but let's not pretend Jagr isn't still quite good - he's just not finishing his chances.

[coldply123]

Jagr is still pretty clearly a top 6 forward.  He's still yanking play in the right direction.  Even if he doesn't play top PP minutes, I don't think that's where his strength is these days.  Now he may not want to leave and that's fine, but let's not pretend Jagr isn't still quite good - he's just not finishing his chances.

I disagree. He's regressed heavily off last year and his inability to match is a big reason why we aren't very good. He's not playing well at all currently and his shot has deteriorated for some reason to the point he looks like he's just throwing it towards the crease. His shot totals are really misleading and why you shouldn't buy them as gospel all the time. Not sure if he has some type of upper body injury he is hiding or he's using a different stick.

Just because he's playing a puck possession style which is pulling play as you say. He's a liability outside the offensive zone much like Zidlicky.

[Triumph]

I disagree. He's regressed heavily off last year and his inability to match is a big reason why we aren't very good. He's not playing well at all currently and his shot has deteriorated for some reason to the point he looks like he's just throwing it towards the crease. His shot totals are really misleading and why you shouldn't buy them as gospel all the time. Not sure if he has some type of upper body injury he is hiding or he's using a different stick.

Just because he's playing a puck possession style which is pulling play as you say. He's a liability outside the offensive zone much like Zidlicky.

 

He's incredible in the offensive zone and pretty decent going forward in the neutral zone too.  Also Gulitti has reported that Jagr has been feeling ill for the last month or so.  I agree he doesn't look himself but even as not himself he's playing reasonably well.

 

I'm not gonna be shocked if a 43 year old loses the ability to score consistently, but even as a guy who doesn't score Jagr is still quite an effective player.

[SterioDesign]

What could work out in our favour is injuries on playoffs team who are really going all out and won't mind paying extra to make sure they are not skipping a beat

[coldply123]

He's incredible in the offensive zone and pretty decent going forward in the neutral zone too. Also Gulitti has reported that Jagr has been feeling ill for the last month or so. I agree he doesn't look himself but even as not himself he's playing reasonably well.

I'm not gonna be shocked if a 43 year old loses the ability to score consistently, but even as a guy who doesn't score Jagr is still quite an effective player.

Well that is troubling if Gulittis report is true but that's besides the matter that we disagree on. His neutral zone entries have been more challenging but I do wonder if that is partially due to being targeted by opposition for prevention.

Either way I think you are too strong calling him incredible. I don't see incredible at all. At least not this year so far. And considering he is going to be 43 and this team has enough issues with age and speed I think it would be smart to not pencil him in next year.

Edited December 22, 2014 by coldply123

[roomtemp]

That is a fair point but it should be applied to Jagr and his scenario as well. Who is giving him a top 6 role or 1st PP unit anymore besides a crummy team like us. Certainly not a good enough team to where he won't threaten to retire if he's traded there. I just don't see any team out there that not only needs Jagr, but wants Jagr, and will pay a good price. If you could guarantee me a 2nd round pick right now I'd pack his bags to whomever is willing to give it up.

 

Well I think now teams that want to make a big playoff run try to build 4 lines that can score. So even if he isn't getting top 6 minutes a Gomez (if he holds up his play) or Jagr would be valuable challenging those 3rd pairing defensemen on a lower line and chipping in more then a slug would especially if they are sound defensively. Now what that's worth to a team differs but a late 2nd rounder isn't out of the question and its not like all 2nd rounders are worth the same. Our 2nd rounder would be worth a hell of alot more and would be harder to part with then a team that would win the President's trophy's 2nd round pick.

[EdgeControl]

so what can we charge someone for a jagr rental if we agree to pickup as much salary as we legally can?

what will zid's incredible slap shot fetch us?

[caron14]

Im dont like the tank idea... But the reality is we lost our two superstar inside of two years. We need a new star and mcdavid would be our star. Our guy. If we are draftibg later ( between 5 to 15) i want svechnikov. Im sold on him. But again we can dream about macdavid or eichel. Those 2 would bring our new identity as a team.

[roomtemp]

so what can we charge someone for a jagr rental if we agree to pickup as much salary as we legally can?

what will zid's incredible slap shot fetch us?

 

Well Jagr got two prospects (one retired and the other still is in the OHL and I haven't heard of him so probably won't amount to much) and a conditional 2nd that became a 1st when the Bruins reached the ECF. So I imagine a 2nd that can become a 1st is possibly maybe not likely for Jagr because of the name and he can still play a bit. Zids probably 3rd to 4th if I had to put money on it. Maybe a 2nd if we're lucky as well.

[Muevelos]

The fact that we have to rely on a 43 year old Jagr is ashame. Really. We're not good because our 43 year old is, you know, aging.

I disagree. He's regressed heavily off last year and his inability to match is a big reason why we aren't very good. He's not playing well at all currently and his shot has deteriorated for some reason to the point he looks like he's just throwing it towards the crease. His shot totals are really misleading and why you shouldn't buy them as gospel all the time. Not sure if he has some type of upper body injury he is hiding or he's using a different stick.

Just because he's playing a puck possession style which is pulling play as you say. He's a liability outside the offensive zone much like Zidlicky.

[Lateralous]

Im dont like the tank idea... But the reality is we lost our two superstar inside of two years. We need a new star and mcdavid would be our star. Our guy. If we are draftibg later ( between 5 to 15) i want svechnikov. Im sold on him. But again we can dream about macdavid or eichel. Those 2 would bring our new identity as a team.

 

It's really 3 if you consider that Elias is finally showing his age. I don't like the tank idea either but given all the injuries and the general state of the team, limping our way to a terrible season in a good/great draft year isn't the worst thing.  With the goaltending and young defense already in place, I still think this can be turned around relatively quickly with the right moves.      

[coldply123]

Teams also aren't going to give a great return for a guy who will be 43 soon and who will just threaten to retire if he doesn't like the team trying to trade for him if they won't give him a spot/role he wants.  Jagr will limit the market value and return himself.  Other GMs have brains (for the most part).

 

If we can get a 1st for Jagr, I will do cartwheels and take back my negativity towards Lou if he can pull that off.  I just don't see it happening.  I'm not even sure you could get a marginal prospect back in the deal.  A 2nd round pick plus a conditional '16 pick is probably the best you'll see offered.  Same with Zidlicky.