Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Do NHL fans really whine all that much about their league not being taken seriously enough? I think most accept that the NHL is what it is, in terms of how popular it is (or isn't, depending on how you look at it). It's never going to be up there with MLB, the NFL, or the NBA. It seems destined to have its hardcore base, but for whatever the reason, the product doesn't seem to draw in many casuals (I've tried with some of my friends (even paid for their tickets), and for many, it just doesn't seem to take). There's bigger reasons for outsiders not to take the NHL seriously...starting with two truncated seasons lost due to lockout, as well as a completely lost season sandwiched in between. A commissioner who was probably the least likable of the commissioners until Roger Goodell blew right past him in that department. Lousy ratings. Agree that the NHL All-Star game jumped that shark a long time ago (I think they all did, really...tying home-field advantage to the MLB's ASG outcome is REALLY much more of a travesty than fans trolling the NHL). And once the 3-on-3 format came to be, any chance for that event to ever to be taken seriously went bye-bye anyway. Anyway, it's safe to say that the NHL will do whatever they have to, to make sure there won't ever be another John Scott, and I can't blame them...it was mildly amusing and in some odd way kind of heartwarming this once, but only this once. But even when the NHL puts safeguards in place to make sure that this doesn't become an annual occurrence, and only true All-Star-caliber players are making the teams, I don't think it will make this event somehow far more credible, or the NHL that much more worthy of being taken seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hockey isnt popular for an array of reasons: 1) It's for the rich/middle class and it's regional. For the most part, kids from only a dozen or so states (MA, NY, CT, NJ, PA, IL, MI, MN, WI, MO, CA, VT, NH, ME) play. 2) Lockouts 3) 2 intermissions. Personally, I love intermissions since I can grab a bite to eat, take a shower or whatever. But for a lot of people, that's too many large breaks 4) Only a quarter of the league are Americans. In the NFL it's 99%, NBA 90-95%, MLB 75%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Lupica always came off as thinking he's just soooooooooooo cool. Typical sportswriter...a nerdy lil' nudge who was likely always the last one picked in elementary school who along the way became a know-it-all wannabe. It was great when he failed miserably on the WFAN. Speaking of Douche-nick....here was his take on Scott: http://nypost.com/2016/01/31/manfred-goodell-cant-be-trusted-to-protect-their-own-sports/ No gold star for Scott’s silly antics As for John Scott, winger/enforcer for the AHL’s St. John’s Ice Caps and the top vote-getter to Sunday’s NHL All-Star Game. Let’s say, as a gag, the school voted one of its worst students “Scholar of the Year.” The “winner” gets it. He smiles, cracks a few jokes then allows a deserving student to be honored. But Scott began to take the vote seriously, as if he deserved to be the NHL’s star among stars. He apparently felt entitled because, after all, he won it fairly and squarely. NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman claimed to be happy by Scott’s presence, pleased by his stature. I don’t believe Bettman, do you? I think he was just populist pandering. Either that, or he supports bestowing a bogus honor. Meanwhile, Scott says he was appalled that an NHL rep asked him if his kids would be “proud” to someday know what went down and how he allowed it. The nerve of the NHL! But it was a question worth asking. Too bad Scott missed the right answer. He scored twice and won the MVP. Irrelevant; he didn’t belong on the ice. Is this what happens when you get old? You just become a miserable humorless curmudgeon who's convinced (as I'm sure Mushnick is) that everything was just awesome back in the "good ol' days" (and I can blow up THAT perception very easily...the "good ol' days" weren't nearly as swell as the Mushnicks of the world like to believe). You take what is supposed to be entertainment and a diversion so fvcking seriously that you forget this is supposed to be, on some level, FUN?! Especially a series of games like this? Douche-nick, take a look at the structure of the event itself...it's friggin' 3-on-3 hockey...in a mini-tournament of EXHIBITION GAMES! Does it sound like something that's supposed to be taken ultra-seriously? Wow, so the fans decided to get goofy with what became a "Let's just have some fun, because the NHL 'All-Star' game has been a joke for years with the game being played at half-speed with minimal contact as everyone is trying to avoid injury" event, and voted in a guy who clearly doesn't fit the typical All-Star player mold. Under the circumstances, Scott handled it about as well as he could, really...what the hell was he supposed to do differently? If this is an event for the FANS (and that's all it is...a chance for fans (and the players for that matter) to just have some fun without getting too emotionally wrapped up in the results, because the results mean nothing in this case), then what's the big friggin' deal if a guy like Scott gets to have a moment? Everyone knows what Scott is, including Scott himself. Out of 700 NHL players, he may very well rank somewhere between 695 and 700. But last night, he got to have more fun than he's probably ever had as an NHLer. This is a memory that he can cherish for the rest of his life, that he not only got to play in an NHL All-Star game (goofy as it may have been compared to prior All-Star games), but that he actually played well in it. If you had had YOUR way Douche-nick, Scott would've done "the right thing" (because in all of your wisdom you ALWAYS seem to just what that is, don't ya?) and never would've had this most unlikely day, where for just once, he got to feel like what it is to be the big shot. For one day, he was Rudy sacking the QB, and Timmy Lupus catching a fly ball. How you could even consider all of this to be some kind of blight on Scott? Anyway, I feel for ya Douche-nick, on some level, because it's truly sad that in what are supposed to be your "golden years", that you are this miserable and disillusioned about everything in the sports world. That you get up on that soapbox of yours again and again, yet draw a paycheck from what is nothing more than a glorified tabloid rag. That you may not even be as miserable as you seem, but aren't talented enough to write about the sports world without some sort of "schtick", so you the only way you can get people to talk about you is to play a character...in this case, an irrelevant old stick-in-the-mud who bitches and complains about everything and everyone...but on rare occasions, through tightened fist and gritted teeth, sometimes dares to dole out a compliment or two (in the interest of journalistic "balance" I'm sure...yeah right). All I gotta say is this: fvck you Phil. fvck your sh!tty rag. fvck your misery. fvck your inability to ever lighten up. And fvck you for anything else I might have overlooked in doling out fvck yous. Glad Scott had fun...and apparently a whole lot of it. That joke of a article just proves how out of touch Schmucknick is. I feel motivated to pepper him with hate mail. Anyone want to join me? Let's let him have it. Scott so deserved what he got yesterday. I didn't watch much. But seeing him score twice and get the loud ovations from a appreciative crowd in Nashville who also booed the NHL's 3 "choices" and chanted "MVP! MVP!" was cool. And Scott was too. He handled it about as well as anyone could. What a guy. I am embarrassed that Mushnick is from Staten Island. He is such a joke. Very proud of John Scott. A weekend he will always remember along with his wonderful family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 9 minutes ago, SMantzas said: Hockey isnt popular for an array of reasons: 1) It's for the rich/middle class and it's regional. For the most part, kids from only a dozen or so states (MA, NY, CT, NJ, PA, IL, MI, MN, WI, MO, CA, VT, NH, ME) play. 2) Lockouts 3) 2 intermissions. Personally, I love intermissions since I can grab a bite to eat, take a shower or whatever. But for a lot of people, that's too many large breaks 4) Only a quarter of the league are Americans. In the NFL it's 99%, NBA 90-95%, MLB 75%. I don't think the lockouts have a lot to do with the lack of popularity at all. Every league locks out now and then, and the fans always come back. I think the fact that it's a sport for upper class people is the biggest factor. None of my friends growing up were hockey fans because I grew up in a working class neighborhood, and my family used my entire annual sports budget on me playing house league hockey. I never got to play baseball because I wanted to play 15 hockey games a year without practices. But it's different place to place, obviously. It's not easy just to grab a stick and puck and go play hockey in most places, and kids are playing pickup basketball or football. You play some roller hockey, sure, but not every kid has roller blades, either. I think the sport being very regional has an effect, but we also see NHL teams becoming very popular in places where most of the fans haven't ever played the game. It's different now back home, but when I was growing up, the only real hockey fans were kids I played hockey with. Now a lot of my friends have started following the NHL and the Devils are more popular than they were 10 years ago. Living in Philly I have met a lot of very serious Flyers fans who never played the game at any level. Look at Nashville and how popular the Preds have become. I think conservatively, 95% of Preds fans weren't playing hockey when they were kids. I think it's probably harder to sell a game to someone who can't afford to spend thousands a year on equipment, league fees, and camps for their kids to play than to someone who lives in a non-traditional market. As for the All-Star game, yea, it's a joke, that's the point. I can't stand when I hear older guys complain about how they can't take the all-star game seriously because of the format. It's supposed to be an exhibition, not game 7 of the conference finals. You get to see the best in the game on the ice at one time, you get to see a city like Nashville or Columbus on display, and the league makes a few bucks. It is a fun event, and making it three on three doesn't make it any bigger a joke than any other all star game. It was the best NHL all-star game since I've been watching hockey for 16 years, and it isn't nearly as bad as the Pro-Bowl or NBA all star game. No kidding you can't take an event seriously that features fan-elected players wearing Chubaca costumes on the ice. It's not supposed to be taken seriously, it's supposed to be enjoyable, and this was. If you want a serious All-Star event, go back 30 years and re-live the MLB events that mattered because there was no inter-league play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 43 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Do NHL fans really whine all that much about their league not being taken seriously enough? I think most accept that the NHL is what it is, in terms of how popular it is (or isn't, depending on how you look at it). It's never going to be up there with MLB, the NFL, or the NBA. It seems destined to have its hardcore base, but for whatever the reason, the product doesn't seem to draw in many casuals (I've tried with some of my friends (even paid for their tickets), and for many, it just doesn't seem to take). There's bigger reasons for outsiders not to take the NHL seriously...starting with two truncated seasons lost due to lockout, as well as a completely lost season sandwiched in between. A commissioner who was probably the least likable of the commissioners until Roger Goodell blew right past him in that department. Lousy ratings. Agree that the NHL All-Star game jumped that shark a long time ago (I think they all did, really...tying home-field advantage to the MLB's ASG outcome is REALLY much more of a travesty than fans trolling the NHL). And once the 3-on-3 format came to be, any chance for that event to ever to be taken seriously went bye-bye anyway. Anyway, it's safe to say that the NHL will do whatever they have to, to make sure there won't ever be another John Scott, and I can't blame them...it was mildly amusing and in some odd way kind of heartwarming this once, but only this once. But even when the NHL puts safeguards in place to make sure that this doesn't become an annual occurrence, and only true All-Star-caliber players are making the teams, I don't think it will make this event somehow far more credible, or the NHL that much more worthy of being taken seriously. Exactly CR. The NHL is the only league that has lockouts every time when they're not happy. They're also the only league who invents ridiculous rules on the fly. They've done more to upset the traditionalist gearing the game more to the new fan. All in a desperate attempt for ratings. But they'll always be the least watched major sport. Nothing they do will change that. Ironically, the All-Star Game was a success due to the fans voting in John Scott. And what did they do? Tried to undermine him by forcing a trade and having a dumb exec ask him if his children would be proud of him. Instead, Scott was the story of the weekend scoring twice and winning MVP while having the time of his life. And treated by his peers like one. Because as Jagr said, they are all NHL players. It just so happens Scott's role is different. The role of the enforcer isn't glorified. As we know, it can be very hard on players. The one time one is recognized in a silly and fun 3-on-3 exhibition tournament the NHL again reacts the wrong way. Taking itself too seriously when it was their actions that turned the All-Star Game into a farce. If they really cared, you'd still have alternating East vs West or North America vs World. Hell. I might've tried a NHL vs KHL format. That would be fun. The bottom line is they went for the 3-on-3 gearing it towards a younger audience. And at the end of the day, it's entertainment. Even odder Scott's Pacific won via a Gibson shutout 1-0 on a goal by Perry over Jagr's Atlantic. So, it proves that even in 3-on-3, the players take it seriously. The games were all competitive. Taking away the fan vote would be a mistake. They're not going to go away from this new format. It's fun. Why shouldn't someone off the radar get the chance to participate? Look at how the inaugural one turned out. They can thank John Scott and the fans for that. And also the players who went out of their way to make him feel wanted. Hockey players get it. The NHL not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I think there probably is a way to have one "outsider"-type be a participant in the All-Star weekend going forward. Maybe a list of 10 candidates who don't quite fit the typical All-Star mold, but get a chance via fan vote to be a part of the festivities due to perseverance, finding a way to stick around, making the most of lesser gifts, etc...but you still probably get a goofy write-in candidate. Agree with coffee, in that the days of the truly "serious" All-Star game is over (though MLB, as mentioned before, is misguidedly trying to force the "serious" issue with the World Series home-field crap). Agree with both coffee and D21 in that this latest iteration of an NHL All-Star weekend is geared toward pure entertainment and almost light-hearted fun (I didn't mention it before, but the NFL has clearly been trying to increase the fun factor with the un-Conferenced "Team Player A vs. Team Player B" format in the Pro Bowl)...and yeah, if it was meant to be taken uber-seriously, it'd be 5 on 5, no-gimmick hockey, East vs. West or USA vs. World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said: SportsCenter didn't shut up last night about what a fun and entertaining All-star game last night was, and how other leagues should take note -- and that's goddamned anti-NHL '45 minutes a day about what color Lebron's headband is' ESPN. If you think last night made the NHL look like a laughingstock, you're the ONLY one. And don't give me the "he's in the minors" argument. if you've played 200+ games, you're a god damned NHL hockey player and better than 99.99% of the general population who laces up their skates. No, he doesn't deserve to be there on merit. But saying he's a laughingstock and an embarrassment is flat out wrong. His goals weren't bullsh!t, and even if you want to say Burns fed the first one to him on a spoon, his second one was a damned nice shot against an all star goalie. I can't understand how anyone could possibly be upset about how this weekend turned out. You'd have to be a miserable human being with the personality of a wet mop to be upset with anything that occurred yesterday in regards to John Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said: SportsCenter didn't shut up last night about what a fun and entertaining All-star game last night was, and how other leagues should take note -- and that's goddamned anti-NHL '45 minutes a day about what color Lebron's headband is' ESPN. If you think last night made the NHL look like a laughingstock, you're the ONLY one. And don't give me the "he's in the minors" argument. if you've played 200+ games, you're a god damned NHL hockey player and better than 99.99% of the general population who laces up their skates. No, he doesn't deserve to be there on merit. But saying he's a laughingstock and an embarrassment is flat out wrong. His goals weren't bullsh!t, and even if you want to say Burns fed the first one to him on a spoon, his second one was a damned nice shot against an all star goalie. I can't understand how anyone could possibly be upset about how this weekend turned out. fvcking post of the year right here! If you're bitchy about the All Star game having players who the fans want but "dont fit the mold" then stop fvcking pretending the All Star game is about the fans and abandon it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The only thing that bothers me is now that the game drew a huge (for a hockey all-star game) rating, NBC is gonna be in the NHL's ear to try and 'recreate' this type of John Scott scenario every year now. This was a great moment that can't be recreated, but never underestimate what TV networks will do for ratings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 4 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said: SportsCenter didn't shut up last night about what a fun and entertaining All-star game last night was, and how other leagues should take note -- and that's goddamned anti-NHL '45 minutes a day about what color Lebron's headband is' ESPN. If you think last night made the NHL look like a laughingstock, you're the ONLY one. And don't give me the "he's in the minors" argument. if you've played 200+ games, you're a god damned NHL hockey player and better than 99.99% of the general population who laces up their skates. No, he doesn't deserve to be there on merit. But saying he's a laughingstock and an embarrassment is flat out wrong. His goals weren't bullsh!t, and even if you want to say Burns fed the first one to him on a spoon, his second one was a damned nice shot against an all star goalie. I can't understand how anyone could possibly be upset about how this weekend turned out. So by that logic are you saying Stephen Gionta is a bonafide NHL player rather than a player who is only playing in the NHL because of some weird crush the organization has or the lack of depth in the organization? And for the other posters, yes the lockouts make us look like jokes to the other leagues. However why pile on with this John Scott crap? When does this end? Sorry I'm not going to let the warm and fuzzies everyone felt get in the way of how embarrassing and dumb this whole ordeal is. The whole thing about Scott being MVP was completely engineered with the fake fight to the constantly setting him up to score those goals to him being lifted on the players shoulders. No way he wasn't going to be the MVP. If you want to get all warm and fuzzy about an underdog just rent Rudy from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, skeeter said: You'd have to be a miserable human being with the personality of a wet mop to be upset with anything that occurred yesterday in regards to John Scott. Funny between Facebook, Twitter, hfboards and anyplace else where you can connect to devils fans this board is easily filled with the biggest negative nancies around. How many posts do I have to read on here from several members who have to remind everyone after ever damn win about how they are overachieving and due for a slide? Yet I'm the miserable human being and the Debbie downer here. Do I dare look up all the posts you posted from 2013-14 and 2014-15 season where you were sh!tting all over Schneider? Edited February 2, 2016 by DevsMan84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunninWithTheDevil Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 10 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said: SportsCenter didn't shut up last night about what a fun and entertaining All-star game last night was, and how other leagues should take note -- and that's goddamned anti-NHL '45 minutes a day about what color Lebron's headband is' ESPN. If you think last night made the NHL look like a laughingstock, you're the ONLY one. And don't give me the "he's in the minors" argument. if you've played 200+ games, you're a god damned NHL hockey player and better than 99.99% of the general population who laces up their skates. No, he doesn't deserve to be there on merit. But saying he's a laughingstock and an embarrassment is flat out wrong. His goals weren't bullsh!t, and even if you want to say Burns fed the first one to him on a spoon, his second one was a damned nice shot against an all star goalie. I can't understand how anyone could possibly be upset about how this weekend turned out. Seriously, i've heard some idiotic things on this board but some people are twisting this enough to make my head spin basically the ASG is a joke but John Scott is a joke and should be ashamed to dishonor and sully the ASG? This was the best thing that could've ever happened to the league in terms of publicity from the game; you can't act like its adding some stigma based off of some fake prediction that this will happen EVERY YEAR. And yeah, the league handled it like sh!t. It would've never grown this big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfan26 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 6 hours ago, DevsMan84 said: The whole thing about Scott being MVP was completely engineered with the fake fight to the constantly setting him up to score those goals to him being lifted on the players shoulders. No way he wasn't going to be the MVP. Engineered by whom? The players did all those things on their own because they were having fun in a game that is supposed to be a light-hearted and fun exhibition for the fans--the group of people who wanted to see John Scott in the game. Are you upset with the players that embraced having John Scott there with them and made it a fun time for him and the fans? Are you angry that they weren't giving their all out there and instead played it like a pick-up game? If that isn't what you're looking for, then the all-star game isn't for you (regardless of whether or not Scott is in it) because the players themselves do not take it seriously. If John Scott's presence in the all-star game ruins it for you, then perhaps you should be more upset about the absence of Crosby, Ovechkin, and Toews. If the all-star game was as serious as you want it to be, there wouldn't be players choosing not to attend, and it would be five-on-five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 11 hours ago, DevsMan84 said: Funny between Facebook, Twitter, hfboards and anyplace else where you can connect to devils fans this board is easily filled with the biggest negative nancies around. How many posts do I have to read on here from several members who have to remind everyone after ever damn win about how they are overachieving and due for a slide? Yet I'm the miserable human being and the Debbie downer here. Do I dare look up all the posts you posted from 2013-14 and 2014-15 season where you were sh!tting all over Schneider? Re: the bolded, I definitely have done this a number of times this season...but not to be negative. It's more so fans appreciate what we've had so far this season, and not hold this team to unfair expectation levels (which I've seen happen more than once). The Devils looked hopeless after that 0-3-1 start. They've been a 50% point% team for a while now (15-14-4 in their last 33 GP), but I'd much rather see what we've seen so far as opposed to playing a game of "How low can we go?" and hoping for a #1 pick. This season overall has been pretty fun (with easy-to-root for guys like Palmieri and Schneider), even with the team having its share of obvious flaws. I think you're blowing up the All-Star event to be way more important and significant than it really is...almost treating it like the NHL's last chance to be taken seriously. It's not sacred, and Scott having played isn't going to be this black mark destined to follow the NHL forever (I think it will actually be forgotten, or at the very least minimized, pretty quickly). Like so many other things, I think the John Scott "incident" came about from a perfect storm of events, starting with fans being allowed to vote for a guy like him to play...it happened more or less organically. The NHL was in a no-win position here...if Scott hadn't played, many would've chastised them for seemingly screwing him through no real fault of his own and being cold and humorless...and now that he did indeed participate, some will complain that he wasn't worthy and never should've been allowed to play. When you consider everything, this all went about as well as it could have. Scott didn't embarrass himself or the league with his performance, either on or off the ice. And to throw out another Rudy reference, the NHL did a pretty good Dan Devine impression...no, they probably weren't thrilled that Scott played and probably would've preferred not to dress him, but in the end, they gave in begrudgingly and let him take the ice, and as a result, some good memories were made. For the most part, everyone involved really seemed to have fun with this. I just don't see this being harmful for the NHL, either short-term or long-term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 8 hours ago, devilsfan26 said: Engineered by whom? The players did all those things on their own because they were having fun in a game that is supposed to be a light-hearted and fun exhibition for the fans--the group of people who wanted to see John Scott in the game. Are you upset with the players that embraced having John Scott there with them and made it a fun time for him and the fans? Are you angry that they weren't giving their all out there and instead played it like a pick-up game? If that isn't what you're looking for, then the all-star game isn't for you (regardless of whether or not Scott is in it) because the players themselves do not take it seriously. If John Scott's presence in the all-star game ruins it for you, then perhaps you should be more upset about the absence of Crosby, Ovechkin, and Toews. If the all-star game was as serious as you want it to be, there wouldn't be players choosing not to attend, and it would be five-on-five. no one has taken the all star game seriously in many years. However suddenly it became a serious matter when the dopes that voted John Scott in got a push back from the league that didn't initially want him in it for obvious reasons. i am annoyed that the bigger stars always come up with fanthom injuries the week of the game. I think the one game suspension is a joke and should be more. still with John Scott in the game you can't call it an all star game then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Best All Star Game in a very long time, thats all that needs to be said. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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