Rags Putting Trottier Out Of His Misery Soon?

[Triumph]

Poti isn't much better than Berard now, but Poti was leading the Rangers in points a few weeks back, and may still be leading them.. Berard has been a big surprise for the Bruins, if he had failed there, his NHL career would have been over. He did not have a good season for the Rangers by most accounts.

The thing about Brendl and Kloucek is that they were never really given a chance as Rangers. Smith knew the problems with Brendl before he picked him.. he was a gamble pick from the beginning. There were some observers who claimed he would never be an NHL player, others who pegged him as a 35-40 goal scorer if he got his act together. It does not appear he will be an NHL player.. he has little discipline and plays like a junior hockey player still.

What I find missing from the Rangers, though, is a player like York.. they have the stars, and they've gotten some excellent performances from grinder type players, but there's no glue.. I don't buy that he's a third line player, he reminds me of Sergei Brylin.. won't bury all his chances, will disappoint if left on a top line for too long, but is still an excellent 2nd and 3rd liner.

As for drafting, I don't buy that stuff about franchise players being missed.. in 5-10 years you will look back at these recent drafts and still find guys who didn't pan out and guys who succeeded beyond what was expected of them. The draft will never be close to exact when 18 and 19 year olds are being selected.

[Jerrydevil]

What about Sather's other picks? You're hung up on the first round and you're hung up on stars when what the Rangers need is an influx of good, well-rounded players

[-C-]

What I find missing from the Rangers, though, is a player like York.. they have the stars, and they've gotten some excellent performances from grinder type players, but there's no glue.. I don't buy that he's a third line player, he reminds me of Sergei Brylin.. won't bury all his chances, will disappoint if left on a top line for too long, but is still an excellent 2nd and 3rd liner.

I think Holik is the glue. And barring a leadership leap forward from Lindros, Holik will be the next captain of the Rangers, IMO.

[-C-]

What about Sather's other picks? You're hung up on the first round and you're hung up on stars when what the Rangers need is an influx of good, well-rounded players

[SueNJ97]

As for drafting, I don't buy that stuff about franchise players being missed.. in 5-10 years you will look back at these recent drafts and still find guys who didn't pan out and guys who succeeded beyond what was expected of them. The draft will never be close to exact when 18 and 19 year olds are being selected.

The Hockey News had an interesting piece in the last draft issue where they looked at the first rounds since at least the late '70s, I think. Using hindsight, they reorder the round as it should have gone based on actual performance. Very interesting, and it shows that you can still pick up players who turn out to be franchise players later in the first round. Marty is a great example, they picked him 20th and I forget whether he was re-ranked at 1 or 2 for that year.

Overall, I looked at the years since Lou took over as GM and the Devs picked, on average, at #16. Over the same years their picks averaged out, on performance, to 8 places higher than they were picked. Not bad.

[Jerrydevil]

I think you're right, C. I see Holik as captain material and I can see him being a a leader on a team that turns it around, but the GM's gotta help and Sather hasn't done very well. A lot of Ranger fans like to point out that Sather hasn't traded away any real good young players, but what good young players have made an impact on the team? I think that's a better question.

[-C-]

You can't knock Sather for realizing that Smith's recent picks were dogs. The only pick he's made that is "ready" for the NHL is Blackburn. And he traded away his 2nd round pick from 2000 (Novak) in the Bure deal.

It's too early to knock Sather's draft record with the Rangers and it's silly to blame him for Smith's.

[Pepperkorn]

I think Holik is the glue. And barring a leadership leap forward from Lindros, Holik will be the next captain of the Rangers, IMO.

Captains can't point the finger and make thinly veiled statements to the press about the team

[Devil Dog]

I actually think the Rangers problem goes deeper than anyone is seeing. There seems to be a fundamental problem on both sides of the blue line. Motivation. The Rangers can look good in any one game, as they did against the Devils (tie) and the Flyers (OT Loss). The problem seems to be that they cannot sustain any drive for more than one or two games. This I think, would normally be the problem of the coaching staff. The problem is that we are on the fourth different staff that has experienced the same problem (Campbell, Muckler, Low and now Trotts). All of these coaches had good reputations coming into the job (Trotts being the exception with no experience), but they all had the same results. The players would tend to play uninspired hockey occasionally interrupted by a good game or two.

In addition injury has played a big part of the Rangers problem. Now every team will get hit with the injury bug from time to time, sometimes even for a whole season. However, the Rangers have had ongoing injury problems for 5 1/2 seasons. Some would question whether the Rangers organization is committed to conditioning. I had recently read where Slats had been upset at Holik for coming into camp out of shape. Holik! Out of shape! Keeping our current feelings about Bobby on the side for the time being, when did Bobby ever show up to Devils camp out of shape? Never. Bobby was always considered one of our better conditioned players for the past ten years. Strange.

No, I honestly believe that it is the culture that the Rangers organization presents that is the problem. I think that this team presents a soft image to both its fans and players. They like for people to see them as friendly, community oriented players. Very soft and fuzzish. I believe that this same image is what the players see for themselves. Why does Mike Keene play completely different prior to and after leaving the Rangers? Why does Holik miss more games due to injury in two months with the Rangers then he did in 10 years with the Devils. Why did Dave Andruychuk(sp?) come back with a broken foot still not healed to play for the Devils and Leetch can't play with a bone bruise even while his teams season is crumbling around him?

Why did Adam Graves have a better year last year then his last with the Rangers?

I believe that culture of this team has changed during the last 8 years. This is a team that really lost their identity and maybe even their soul after winning in 94. While most teams strive to keep winning after getting a taste of the cup, the Rangers seemed to feel better about basking in the glory then building for another run.

No, this problem goes so far beyond Trotts, or Slats or even Dolan. This is an entire organization that has lost its way. If they don't find their way during the next month you can just count the streak at 6 years and counting.

[Zamode]

Well as was stated, we as Devils' fans continue to hope for the 6 and to keep going onward to 7.....

As far as the team goes, all good points, I think between mental psyches messed with on the team, poor choices and poor GM's, crap coaching and overall a mess, they need to start from scratch. Build back up like an expansion team.

Though I really don't care! GO DEVILS!

[Devil Dog]

Holik has no trouble temporarily divorcing himself from his teammates for his own self-aggrandizement or self-defense.

Interesting comment. I read a quote from Holik after the Tampa loss in which he referenced his time with the Devils in the present tense. I think he said something like "we would see what was going on..." I thought this was funny because hockey players are usually good at never speaking about their prior teams that way. When Messier came back the second time he immediately spoke about the Rangers problems in terms of "we haven't been too good lately...".

It may be a little thing, but it is telling that even with all his talk I think that Bobby is having a problem cutting the cord. It just shows that players just aren't bonding to their new team as they should.

It all adds up, and the result looks bad.

[bg.]

Devil Dog, if your looking to get on a Ranger for this or that you will find plenty of suspects over the last 5-6 years, but please omit Brian Leetch from that list. He sure as heck ain't one of them.

The only times in his career when Leetch hasn't played is when he has broken a bone. If he is out at a time like this you know damn well he is hurting pretty bad.

Let's be fair.

[-C-]

I think Holik is bonding with the Rangers just fine. But I'm also not surprised if Holik still feels a sort of bond with his old teammates in NJ. They went through a lot together for many years, Holik is human and such a divorce takes time to get over completely. Nothing wrong or unusual about that.

[Pepperkorn]

ugh..while I am enjoying this thinking about the Rangers woes makes my brain hurt! Glad I'm a Devils fan

[-C-]

I'm usually a pessimist, but I think this year is going to be different. I see the Rangers turning it around in the 2nd half of the season. Dunham will play a huge role.

[Devil Dog]

The only times in his career when Leetch hasn't played is when he has broken a bone. If he is out at a time like this you know damn well he is hurting pretty bad.

Let's be fair.

Frankly, I'd take Leetch on my team anytime. I'm not knocking the player as much as the culture. I honestly believe that if Leetch has played the past three years on the Devils we probably would have had that third cup.

My point wasn't to knock any player as a professional, but to point out that these professional men all are having issues with this team over an extended period and through different coaching staffs. The problem is with the entire organization and their approach to Hockey from conditioning, to preparation to execution to player development.

Look I'm a Devils fan so any Ranger/Flyer/Leafs misery that I see brings a smile to my face and warms my heart. But I do believe that for the Rangers to right their ship firing the coach or the GM won't do it. Its been four coaches and two GM's and the story doesn't change. The players are mostly different as well. What else is left?

[Derek21]

What Devildog said about the Rangers' image/culture was 100% correct. The over PR and the presentation of New York. It's sickening. I think our current ownership, "Evil Empire" would rather look good off the ice with the community stuff and PR than win a championship. That's the biggest problem with the Rangers.

Everyone always points to the coaches, g.m.s and players who come in and out. But when has it ever changed the end results?

I am not a Sather fan and think he's destroying Hartford. Who besides Garth Murray has a future? Lundmark is already done. He'll be dealt soon. Johan Holmqvist will probably get dealt and become a good Euro-goalie. Mike Mottau is AHL fodder. Rico Fata should be an NHL regular and instead he's in and out of the lineup for guys like Tibbetts and Dwyer.

It's ample proof that the Rangers organization has no clue wtf they are doing.

As for the trades I used as examples in '94, I was only pointing out that the Cup wasn't bought. But in retrospect, Neil Smith traded our best prospects to win it that year. Most of them became stars.

It left the team in the dust with nothing. For those who want to point to the '97 run to the ECF, get your heads out of your asses. That was all Richter. That's the only reason they got that far. They should have lost to the Devils in 5. Between Richter and that crease rule, it won that series for us.

In other words, this team has done nothing since '94. '97 gave the organization a false sense of security that things were okay. I remember Brooks writing a column when they were fighting just to make the playoffs. He said that the team wasn't good enough and needed to be ripped up. In the end, he was right. It was like a blanket over their heads and no one wanted to see the truth.

C and BG like to point out that it's not Sather's fault. That it's all on Trottier. Trottier is a nice guy and I really wanted him to succeed. But as has been pointed out, he isn't the right choice for them. He's too nice. Almost afraid to yell since he benched Lindros.

Wasn't it Sather who chose Trottier as coach?

If you look at our drafts over the recent years, you will be sick. Some of the names are just atrocious.

Poti can replace Leetch? He can't. Any objective hockey fan can see how well he's done since #2 went down.

Here's some proof:

12 games, 0 goals, 7 assists -7 rating

Sorry but Jerry is right. Mike York was the glue of the team. He had character and heart. Slats traded it away. You can go on believing what the Duguay's and Coggs' say about York. But when he isn't scoring, he still does other things. That's the difference. When Poti isn't contributing offensively, he adds nothing. He stinks defensively and is a giveaway waiting to happen.

York was the John Madden of the Rangers. Wherever you stuck him, you knew you'd get excellent effort.

You guys left out Kim Johnsson, who's a better positional D-man than Poti.

In closing, look at the Rangers' core. Who's got a good future there?

Lindros is near the end and Holik's 32 today. Nedved's 30. Dwyer? Tibbetts? Barnaby??? McCarthy??? Donato??? Messier is a dinosaur hogging up 18:00 of ice-time. Samuelsson has been garbage for a while. Petrovicky is a grit guy but cmon. Where's he making a big impact?

And on D, all they have is Poti and he can't play any D.

Blackburn doesn't even play anymore. They decided they want to burn out Dunham too.

Does anyone notice a trend with the Rangers here? No draft talent!!!!!

What does that tell you? It's no wonder they are the joke of the league. It's well deserved.

[#10 Duguay]

PurpleK -

Keep me out of your ramblings please, I wouldn't want anyone to get confused and think I may agree with you about anything

Thanks

[LIDevsFan1]

I think something else is that its human nature for these guys to slack off a bit once they get the big contract. Its almost like there are no more mountains to climb. . . . Unlike football its all guaranteed money.

I dont know what it is but for all I care, it can last forever. The Wings spend a fortune and they seem to get it right.

[bg.]

A few things...

Rico Fata has about 60 NHL games under his belt, one goal. The only reason he gets shots is because of his speed. The only reason he is on the Rangers is they are about the one team that will pay him what he makes.

Mike Mottau was a great NCAA player, (he won Hoby Baker didn't he?) however for a defensemen not to be able to crack the Rangers top six after four years at BC and two plus in the AHL says something.

With Dunham and Blackburn for the near, and distant future, I couldn't care less if Johan Holmquist falls off a cliff. Honestly, they let Blackburn play 1/4 of a season without a night off, that tells you how much confidence they have in Holmquist.

As for Mr. Lundmark, 17 games, 1 assist, 12 minutes per night. He got PP time, he played with Nedved, Messier, and even Holik for a stretch, he produced zilch. For a young player that is called a shot, he didn't take advantage. More than anything he did NOTHING to suggest he is an NHL level player. Not for nothing, but not too many players (yes Elias, Sykora, Rolsten and a very few others aside) who become big time players spend ANY time in the AHL. Obviously goalies are the exception to the rule.

Poti cannot replace Leetch? Is this a newsflash? Guess what, just as Kris Beech cannot and will not replace Mario, and Colin White replace Scott Stevens, Tom Poti will not replace Brian Leetch. Those three guys I named are special, impossible to replace.

[#10 Duguay]

Mike York would have to score 30 goals a year for 5-6 years straight for that trade to be a mistake.

Oh - and he WONT

People are killing Poti for the supposed "lack of defense" that he plays, but must be forgetting just how awful Berard was last year.

[#10 Duguay]

Tom Poti will not replace Brian Leetch. Those three guys I named are special, impossible to replace.

The fact that someone would think that it's possible would make you think that this person doesn't get it right?

Let's be realistic - how many players in the HISTORY of the NHL could replace Leetch? 3-4? maybe....

[NJDevs4978]

Let's be realistic - how many players in the HISTORY of the NHL could replace Leetch? 3-4? maybe....

Can you possibly be any more of a homer? Three or four? I can name at least two that are better than Leetch NOW; Lidstrom and Blake. So you think Leetch is better than them? Better than Borque, Bobby Orr, Potvin?

[#10 Duguay]

Ok.....you got me.....I'm a homer.

What is being talked about is replacing Leetch on the Rangers, and while I may have gotten carried away, there are still very few guys that can do it.

He is the leader, the best player the Rangers ever drafted, their MVP for the last 14 years or so.

It's not easy. I don't expect you to understand, you've never had a player that good on your team.

[NJDevs4978]

It's not easy. I don't expect you to understand, you've never had a player that good on your team.

Oh come on, Brodeur doesn't count? He might end up with more wins than ANY goalie in the history of the NHL. Of course those will be big shoes to fill for the next NJ goalie, Ahonen or whomever. Stevens doesn't count just because he's not an offensive defenseman like Leetch? Stevens has been the heart and soul of our team too through TWO Cups, and while he's not the offensive force Leetch is he's definitely more of a defensive/physical force.