devilsrule33 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 What ? not top 6 ??? Blasphemy 3rd in GAA and 2nd in SV % huh. Where is he in the stat that really matters.......wins ? Do you actually believe this? With that logic, there is no such thing as a good goalie on a bad team. Anyway, since 2006-2007: Nabokov 128 Kiprusoff 128 Brodeur 126 Luongo 125 Miller 124 Lundqvist 123 Turco 111 Fleury 109 Backstrom 102 I'm sure you thought Brodeur deserved the 1997 and 1998 Vezina and Hart over Hasek right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Thread title should be updated until they have a good GA game. So it should be 18 in 3 games now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 and where do you think he will be at the end of the season? i wouldn't bet against him being top 10 in either category. the rangers are also currently playing some brutal defense. uh, he's 3rd in GAA and 2nd in SV% among active goalies. this is even more ridiculous when you consider that older goalies have the benefit of the pre-lockout clutch and grab fests. You really are not understanding the point. I said from the very beginning that Lundqvist is among the better goalies in the league. What I am trying to point out to you is your absolute unwillingness to accept other people's opinions that maybe Lundqvist is not "top 6" but instead top 10, etc. You saying Lundqvist is a top 6 goalie is an OPINION, and you cannot tell people they don't know anything about hockey just because they don't agree with you. Everyone has different opinions, and as long as they can make a sound rational argument against yours, you can't fault them on it. Personally, I think that when Lundqvist is at the top of his game, he is top 3 in the league. However, he has many inconsistent streaks, such as what he's going through right now. Even with that, would I take him over 90% of the goalies in this league? Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime98 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 rangers suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I think he is a phenomenal dresser. LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowutopia Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) Lundqvist- Extremely weak glove hand and a rather one dimensional goalie. Not that this is a bad thing but he offers very little besides purely stopping the puck. He plays his angles really well and has very good reflexes but lacks puck handling skills and doesn't have a lot of variety in his game. Like many have already said though he is very inconsistent. He is either lights out or tends to struggle for extended periods of time. Personally I don't care for the way he plays but he can be extremely difficult to beat when he is on his game. The Rangers may have never had a great D since he has been here but there have been times when they played really well defensively and Lundqvist has shined as a result. But that goes for any goalie really. If you play behind a sh*t team you are going to have sh*t results no matter how good you are. If he were to play on a really good team he would win a ton of games. Is he top 5? I'm not sold on that but he wouldn't be far off and easily top 6 or 7. Whatever the case the Rangers have no shot at all without him but the King nonsense has to go though. Fwiw imo there are the top 3 and then there is everyone else. 4 - 8 could be arranged many different ways. 1. Brodeur - even at age 37 there is no one better when he is in top form. lots of weapons in his arsenal. 2. Luongo - like Brodeur he is a beast when in top form. He can dominate games. 3. Kiprusoff - always plays and WINS lots of games consistently. fun to watch too. This is pretty much smack on the nose imo. It's hard to comprehend how weak his glove hand his. Nearly every other goal I see on him is glove side, and most of those glove side high which isn't surprising since he's down-first. Sickman hit all the key points though: he's quick around the crease and plays his angles well. He's streaky a little bit and I swear it's all confidence related, and it's amazing that his confidence remains so high behind such a suspect D. I say it's confidence related because when he performs poorly it's when he's getting caught deep in his crease and isn't playing the angles so well, which has a lot to do with confidence in yourself and your teammates. He's in my top ten, probably my top six-eight, and I actually picked him with my second round pick as my starting fantasy goalie this year, and I've kind of been getting burned by that. I expected the Rangers to do much better, but I realize now that without Renney these Rangers aren't really the team I expected. I think Renney's system would do well with this team. They have the ability to score enough goals to win tight games where the team plays a solid team-defense game. Gaborik alone is weapon enough to bring them through tight games, but their overall scoring depth just isn't enough to play the Torts system it looks like. Torts will have to tighten everything up. Edited December 1, 2009 by Cowutopia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowutopia Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) Henrik looks so good against us because we don't have a lot of shooters that can take hard high wristers on net. Also, especially this, our Defense aren't really great at getting hard high shots in while we screen. Those are the two best ways to beat Henrik, and the Devils of the last few seasons just have not been any good at that really. They get a lot of garbage/rebound/crease goals, low goals, five hole goals, digging goals, third chance goals, and that's where Lundqvist excels. Edited December 1, 2009 by Cowutopia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowutopia Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) lundqvist's numbers speak for themselves. 'consistent' is a meaningless word in a sports context besides very extreme examples. lundqvist is 3rd among active goalies in GAA and 2nd in SV%. putting him anywhere outside your top 6 is utter madness. That really depends on how you weight this sh!t. Is current play weighted more heavily than past play when you are putting together a CURRENT season goalie ranking? I mean there must have been a time there where Giguere's career stats looked great even while he was in the midst of his meltdown, and a lot of people would have put him in their top 6, and probably would have been right. Cut to this year and we saw him reduced to a backup role, future very much in doubt, though his recent string has him back at least to the level of "NHL Starter." His play definitely slid. You can't just rest on your laurels, every year you have to prove yourself, especially as a goalie. Too many goalies burn out, and we have no idea about the longevity of Lundqvist. That's what makes Marty and the Devils so impressive, imo. I'm not throwing Lundqivst under the bus just yet but this season he has been very average and I don't really give a sh!t about the team in front of him or his past numbers. Like you said, the Rangers haven't really had a decent defense in front of him for a long time, but Lundqvist came up with the goods despite the players in front of him. This year that just isn't the case. Has the change in system really had that much of an effect? I mean you're getting dangerously close here to getting into the old Marty argument: Marty isn't stellar, the system in front of him is stellar. Of course I know the Devils system has been a huge boon to Marty's career numbers, but I still think Marty would have been a top goalie on any other team, he'd just have more stretches of mediocrity in numbers. He's not always sharp every night, he's just sharp MOST nights. When Marty is on fire it's just ridiculous. Edited December 1, 2009 by Cowutopia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Rangers woes continue 5-2 last night, Rupp with the Hatrick! 2nd goal was great. I love hearing the boo's from the garden faithful. I don't think they went to center ice after the game and raised their sticks to thank the fans last night. no rededen no victory? lol "the king" didn't look very good last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 You can't just rest on your laurels, every year you have to prove yourself, especially as a goalie. Too many goalies burn out, and we have no idea about the longevity of Lundqvist. That's what makes Marty and the Devils so impressive, imo. True, about goalies burning out and not lasting...guys like Roy and Brodeur are truly special. You'll find guys who can play at or near their level for a few years, but to do what they do year after year after year is incredible. How many times have we seen this goalie for that team look like "the guy", only to wonder what happened to him? Jim Carey won a friggin' VEZINA! As for Lundqvist, this season is following his pattern: he now has an .894 save% over his last nine games, after putting up a strong .920 save% over his first 14 games. Start strong, meh middle, finish strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 True, about goalies burning out and not lasting...guys like Roy and Brodeur are truly special. You'll find guys who can play at or near their level for a few years, but to do what they do year after year after year is incredible. How many times have we seen this goalie for that team look like "the guy", only to wonder what happened to him? Jim Carey won a friggin' VEZINA! As for Lundqvist, this season is following his pattern: he now has an .894 save% over his last nine games, after putting up a strong .920 save% over his first 14 games. Start strong, meh middle, finish strong. This and what Cowtopia said are great points. It's about the longevity. Any goalie can have good stretches. I remember in I believe the 1996 playoffs when Grant Fuhr when down for the Blues. Jon Casey came in and played out of his f'n mind to take the Red Wings to Game 7 double overtime before Yzerman beat him. It's one of my favorite goalie performances of all time. But Jon Casey was not 'elite' or even 'great' over his career. Lundqvist gets in these funks (like now). The question will be... will they happen more often or will he get them under control. He's 27. He's got another 10-13 years in the league (probably less with the knee problems, especially as a butterfly goalie). I do wonder what the changes in pad length will do to him last year. But I don't think, right now, I consider him top 5. Sure, top 10 in the league, but lets see what else he does. Also, for the person who said playing deep in the crease was due to his lack of confidence... it's actually because he is being coached by Francois Allaire (the same guy who coached Giguere). He believes in a pure butterfly style played deep in the net to allow the most possible time to react to a shot. Brodeur trained under him once, but felt the style was too boring and one-dimensional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Lundqvist gets in these funks (like now). The question will be... will they happen more often or will he get them under control. He's 27. He's got another 10-13 years in the league (probably less with the knee problems, especially as a butterfly goalie). I do wonder what the changes in pad length will do to him last year. But I don't think, right now, I consider him top 5. Sure, top 10 in the league, but lets see what else he does. He's got to figure it out, no question. It's not 100% on Henrik, but as much as his strong season-end play helps his team get into the playoffs, his mid-season downturns also help ensure that his teams will have to scramble over their last 20 games or so just to get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) You really are not understanding the point. I said from the very beginning that Lundqvist is among the better goalies in the league. What I am trying to point out to you is your absolute unwillingness to accept other people's opinions that maybe Lundqvist is not "top 6" but instead top 10, etc. You saying Lundqvist is a top 6 goalie is an OPINION, and you cannot tell people they don't know anything about hockey just because they don't agree with you. Everyone has different opinions, and as long as they can make a sound rational argument against yours, you can't fault them on it. Personally, I think that when Lundqvist is at the top of his game, he is top 3 in the league. However, he has many inconsistent streaks, such as what he's going through right now. Even with that, would I take him over 90% of the goalies in this league? Absolutely. no one has made a rational argument besides hand-waving and few people have tried to rank goalies. i'll remember this when people start trying to argue that brodeur is better than luongo and they start using GAA. Edited December 1, 2009 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 no one has made a rational argument besides hand-waving and few people have tried to rank goalies. i'll remember this when people start trying to argue that brodeur is better than luongo and they start using GAA. I think several people have made the very rational argument that he falls into mid-season funks where he plays like absolute garbage. He has good overall numbers, but his inconsistency makes it hard for people to put him top 3 or 5 in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravityFat Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 man these rags are making me salivate with their play. i can hardly believe how great a season both rags and canes are having. i really couldn't have asked for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkyDano23 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 These statements nearly made my head explode. Please explain how goalies more affect on offense than forwards. I'm intrigued. Like this? (ffwd to :40) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Valiquette has been placed on waivers and Chad Johnson has been called up. Interesting... Rags claim Christensen, Assign Valliquette to Hfd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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