Patrik Elias should be your favourite player

[Jerrydevil]

But patrik has been loyally towing the line for this club for a while.

That's a little much. He makes a ton of dough, and if he didn't get a big contract from the Devils, he was gone.

But he still is one of the best forwards in Devils history. You don't need to dream up other stuff to make him into some kind of hockey good samaritan.

[Halfwar]

The last time Elias was a free agent, he was one of the top names on the market. He snubbed offers of more money from several teams, including the Rangers, to stay a Devil. For this, Patty can do no wrong in my eyes.

+1 same as Brodeur why I <3 as well

Edited November 30, 2009 by Halfwar

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

The last time Elias was a free agent, he was one of the top names on the market. He snubbed offers of more money from several teams, including the Rangers, to stay a Devil. For this, Patty can do no wrong in my eyes.

A lot of Elias' staying had to do with Sather's refusal to give Patrik a NTC/NMC.

If I'm being fair, the overall results since Patrik signed his big deal have been mixed (though trending upward), but yeah, he's going down as one of the Devils' best forwards of all time. I'd put MacLean ahead of him (he had to scrap for everything he got), and I think Parise's ahead of him as well.

[devlman]

Elias also seems intelligent, on and off the ice.

One of my fav players too. Only things i can say against him is that he's been whining a bit too much lately and he doesnt know how to book a flight to Toronto.

Edited November 30, 2009 by devlman

[thiswontwork]

I don't think it's even worth bringing Parise into the conversation till he has been here longer. Right now Marty and Patrick are special because the length of time they have been here and their production. Quite frankly Elias handled the loosing of his captaincy quite well and imo seems to really cherish his position in the franchise. There did seem to be some irony on his setting his record on Marty's night ( I freaking love that he came out in the Saint Pats cap ). I often wonder if Elias will always go down as a player that was a bit under appreciated because he was always there.

[Devil Dan 56]

well, parise is still young. I also wish he had some hitting to his game. dont get me wrong, I love the kid. But patrik has been loyally towing the line for this club for a while. and hes proven himself time and again. parise will have his chance one day.

plus, you have to admit, that patrik does have a little more flair to his game than zach. i dont think Ive ever seen zach flat out deke 2 defenders, before calmly sidestepping a goalie and putting it in the open side.

Well, there were these... Goal 2 involved a nice play between 2 defenders. And I say this as a huge fan of Elias. Two awesome players on the 'defensive' New Jersey Devils.

[Devils731]

I think those highlights don't show that Zach has "flair", even goal #2. Zach just doesn't and Patrik does and they're 2 different players so it works for both of them. Parise wouldn't be as good if he tried to do some of the things Elias does and Elias wouldn't be as good if he tried to make the play Parise does. Parise is going to come at you and try to force you into mistakes or catch you sleeping and Elias is going to wait for you to make your move and the react to the weak spot in the change.

[Jerrydevil]

I think those highlights don't show that Zach has "flair", even goal #2. Zach just doesn't and Patrik does and they're 2 different players so it works for both of them. Parise wouldn't be as good if he tried to do some of the things Elias does and Elias wouldn't be as good if he tried to make the play Parise does. Parise is going to come at you and try to force you into mistakes or catch you sleeping and Elias is going to wait for you to make your move and the react to the weak spot in the change.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Zach Parise certainly has flair. Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Devil Dan 56]

I think those highlights don't show that Zach has "flair", even goal #2. Zach just doesn't and Patrik does and they're 2 different players so it works for both of them. Parise wouldn't be as good if he tried to do some of the things Elias does and Elias wouldn't be as good if he tried to make the play Parise does. Parise is going to come at you and try to force you into mistakes or catch you sleeping and Elias is going to wait for you to make your move and the react to the weak spot in the change.

True, they have different styles, but I guess Zach gives me more 'how'd he do that' moments, especially in shootout situations. Elias does have very very slick moves, like the no look passes and through the legs moves.

[Devils731]

I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Zach Parise certainly has flair. Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Flair or creativity. Doing the unexpected and making it work. Doing things you don't often see players try. Elias does that, Parise doesn't. Parise works incredibly hard and makes the simple plays work at a high rate. Elias plays more of a waiting game in the offensive zone.

Think of it this way, which player is more likely to be involved in creative passing plays that leaves a guy with a wide open net to tap it in and which player is more likely to take the puck right at the net and take 3 whacks to get the puck home? That's just the different philosophy of the 2 players and the first has more "flair".

[Jerrydevil]

Flair or creativity. Doing the unexpected and making it work. Doing things you don't often see players try. Elias does that, Parise doesn't. Parise works incredibly hard and makes the simple plays work at a high rate. Elias plays more of a waiting game in the offensive zone.

Think of it this way, which player is more likely to be involved in creative passing plays that leaves a guy with a wide open net to tap it in and which player is more likely to take the puck right at the net and take 3 whacks to get the puck home? That's just the different philosophy of the 2 players and the first has more "flair".

I don't know dude ... the guy's a magician with his stick the way he deflects pucks and he's got moves out the wazoo on shootouts. That's in addition to being relentless.

As Fred Wilpon would say, "He's got the skill sets."

[Devils731]

I don't know dude ... the guy's a magician with his stick the way he deflects pucks and he's got moves out the wazoo on shootouts. That's in addition to being relentless.

As Fred Wilpon would say, "He's got the skill sets."

But flair, to me, has nothing to do with skill. A deflection doesn't have a lot of flair, it's just a good solid hockey play, for the most part. Driving by a player isn't flair. Getting rebounds isn't flair. Nutmegging a player has flair. A behind the back pass has flair. Making a player spin in place trying to defend you has flair.

Shootouts are shootouts and a different beast from the whole rest of the game where both Parise and Elias have lots of moves.

Elias is going to leave a defender unsure what to do and off balance while Parise is going to go right at the guy and force the play. Elias makes more pretty plays while Parise makes more hardworking plays, the pretty plays have flair while the hardworking plays don't. They're both great but different.

[Jerrydevil]

But flair, to me, has nothing to do with skill. A deflection doesn't have a lot of flair, it's just a good solid hockey play, for the most part. Driving by a player isn't flair. Getting rebounds isn't flair. Nutmegging a player has flair. A behind the back pass has flair. Making a player spin in place trying to defend you has flair.

Shootouts are shootouts and a different beast from the whole rest of the game where both Parise and Elias have lots of moves.

Elias is going to leave a defender unsure what to do and off balance while Parise is going to go right at the guy and force the play. Elias makes more pretty plays while Parise makes more hardworking plays, the pretty plays have flair while the hardworking plays don't. They're both great but different.

Some people don't acknowledge how much ability Parise has (not necessarily you.) Here's a common beginning to a sentence that drives me nuts ... "Parise may not be the most talented guy but..."

That's bullsh!t. Without great speed, balance, puckhandling and stickhandling, he's a checker. You don't score 40 goals based on hard work. Just ask John Madden.

But I did love what Billy Jaffe (best color analyst on MSG Network since John Davidson) said about Parise on Saturday regarding his relentlessness. (I'm paraphrasing.) "You better be prepared to outwork the other team when Parise's on the ice, because he's going to outwork you."

I think Howie Rose had some good things to say about El-eee-ash.

[Jerrydevil]

And regarding the word "great" ... I think you'll need to find a new word for Elias, who is very good. Parise is a star in this league. Barring injury, he's going to obliterate Devil scoring records, if he doesn't go somewhere else before doing so.

[Devils731]

I don't see how any of that relates to which player has more flair between Elias and Parise.

[Jerrydevil]

I don't see how any of that relates to which player has more flair between Elias and Parise.

Parise has more flare.

[maxpower]

And regarding the word "great" ... I think you'll need to find a new word for Elias, who is very good. Parise is a star in this league. Barring injury, he's going to obliterate Devil scoring records, if he doesn't go somewhere else before doing so.

you're extrapolating... be careful. Parise has a drive I've seen from few Devils, he also needs it, because he's going to score about 10 goals from outside the circles in his life.

edit: just to add, Elias was a better player at his peak, than Parise is now. but like I said, it was a quick peak. it's a different game. back then, a player like Parise would have to be 6'2" 220 because he'd be eating sticks early and often, and getting a call around 10% of the time, if that.

what Zach does now used to be reserved for people like John LeClair.

Edited December 1, 2009 by maxpower

[Jerrydevil]

you're extrapolating... be careful. Parise has a drive I've seen from few Devils, he also needs it, because he's going to score about 10 goals from outside the circles in his life.

edit: just to add, Elias was a better player at his peak, than Parise is now. but like I said, it was a quick peak. it's a different game. back then, a player like Parise would have to be 6'2" 220 because he'd be eating sticks early and often, and getting a call around 10% of the time, if that.

what Zach does now used to be reserved for people like John LeClair.

I think you're wrong about Elias being better and that Parise is more productive because the rules are different. You're a Devil fan ... you know Pat Verbeek went into the tough areas to score goals, and lots of them. Not a big guy, yet he thrived in an era when defensemen were much more aggressive in front of the net.

But it ain't so bad to disagree. It's a message board.

[Revan]

But more than that, this guy has heart. Not many guys out there that can spark the whole lineup, but Patrik seems able to do that.

Absolutely. I remember when he came back from hepatitis in early 2006. This and Lou stepping in behind the bench turned that season around and led to the most exciting division comeback and winning streak I have ever seen.

His numbers aren't enough to put Patrik in the Hall, but he will be the first forward in Devils' history to have his number retired, and rightfully so. A Devil for life most probably, franchise scoring leader, two (possibly more) Stanley Cup championships, probably over 900 points (maybe even 1000) when he retires. A leader and a great guy, as well.

As for Zach, I love the kid and he's my second favourite Devil (after Marty and Elias), but he has a lot of years ahead of him and we'll have to wait and see what happens. I have no doubts about his skill and talent. It's just a matter of whether he sticks with this team for long years or not.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

To say Parise is better than Elias is nuts. Elias has been better for longer. Parise had a great breakout campaign last year and looks good so far this year, but it's wayyyy too early to say Parise is superior.

Elias is the best Devils Forward of all time (in that I mean he's known as a Devil, Shanahan doesn't count for example) and I think the responses illustrate that not as many fans realize that as they should.

He can play any position on the ice and serve any role asked of him. And he can do it all well. He's the ultimate devils forward in that regard, as the devils are a team of "Interchangeable parts". His style and performance frustrates fans who want effortless scoring i.e. Kovalchuk from him, but that's not his game.

I think he deserves a Jersey Retirement, and the HHOF is a possibility, although he needs a stronger resume.

Edited December 1, 2009 by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

[E-Devil]

Honestly at the peak of both of their careers (that is if we consider Parise right now at his peak), I would say Elias was more dangerous then Parise. Elias is still a very good offensive player and Zach is certainly the better player right now, but if you look at some of the old video clips of Elias in his mid twenties skating and dangling the puck, he was at the times the most dangerous winger in the league when he was confident. Elias in his prime was much stronger then Parise and I agree with Devils731 in that Elias has a lot more creativity with the puck. Elias was also a threat to score in many more places on the ice than Parise and defensively Elias also gets the nod. Zach does have the quickness advantage. Zach has such quick feet and hands he drives other teams nuts. I also do believe at the end of both of their careers, Parise's stats will easily eclipse Elias and Parise is more likely to end up in the hall of fame assuming he doesn't suffer some major injury or melt down.

I find the comparison between the two players similar to what Penguin fans say about Jagr versus Lemieux. Mario had the better career, but many Penguin fans will tell you that Jagr's best games were better that Lemieux in his prime. I kind of feel that same way between Parise and Elias. When Elias was at his peak and at his best, he was better than Parise is now. However, I do feel that Parise will have the better career because I can't remember that last time Parise had a bad game and he is always hustling and working. Elias was a very streaky player and there were times when you would wonder if he even had any ice time.

I also think Elias is a good influence on the young players on the team. Elias is one of the best players at being at the right place at the right time to score a goal. One thing I've noticed about Parise and Brian Gionta during his career year, is that both of them look a lot Elias around the net grabbing those rebounds and getting open. Parise is a much different player now than his rookie year and I think players like Elias have taught him a lot.

[Triumph]

To say Parise is better than Elias is nuts. Elias has been better for longer. Parise had a great breakout campaign last year and looks good so far this year, but it's wayyyy too early to say Parise is superior.

parise's better now, and if he continues on this pace for a few more years, he'll be better overall. i don't think people are realizing how great a player parise is. elias has 2 top 10 finishes in points - parise has 1 and is headed for 2. and that's in a league with ovechkin, malkin, and crosby.

Elias is the best Devils Forward of all time (in that I mean he's known as a Devil, Shanahan doesn't count for example) and I think the responses illustrate that not as many fans realize that as they should.

He can play any position on the ice and serve any role asked of him. And he can do it all well. He's the ultimate devils forward in that regard, as the devils are a team of "Interchangeable parts". His style and performance frustrates fans who want effortless scoring i.e. Kovalchuk from him, but that's not his game.

I think he deserves a Jersey Retirement, and the HHOF is a possibility, although he needs a stronger resume.

jersey retirement for sure. HHOF is almost certainly out of the question without something major - a resurgence to the elite (something which seems unlikely, given 2 surgeries in the last 6 months), 100+ more career goals, and a major hand in a championship or near championship team.

it is amazing that elias doesn't have a minus season since 96-97 - the devils have been a great defensive team over that time, but elias helps himself out by being a great defensive player.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Triumph

[DaneykoIsGod]

Parise has more flare.

Elias's flair:

Parise's flair:

Joking aside, it all depends on your personal definition of "flair." Parise is more likely to speed past a defender, create offense from his forecheck, make the difficult deflection and jump on his teammates after a goal. Elias is more likely to stickhandle around defenders, set up and finish one-timers, surprise everyone (including teammates sometimes) with a no-look pass and in general use more finesse.

Po-TAY-toes. Po-TAH-toes.

It isn't a knock on either to say the other has more flair. They're both great and a lot of fun to watch. I personally think Elias has more because he scores more goals on dekes and one-timers and fancy, flair-like stuff like that. A lot of Parise's come from him pounding home rebounds. It isn't a knock, just an opinion.

[maxpower]

I think you're wrong about Elias being better and that Parise is more productive because the rules are different. You're a Devil fan ... you know Pat Verbeek went into the tough areas to score goals, and lots of them. Not a big guy, yet he thrived in an era when defensemen were much more aggressive in front of the net.

But it ain't so bad to disagree. It's a message board.

Pat Verbeek was a tough sob with a drive like Zach, but he also played in an era where the goalies, the least said, the better.

the late 90's to the lockout were an entirely different breed of hockey. Elias' season in 00-01 was a monster season. probably equal to someone getting 115-120 points now just in how the game is played. and then there was the matter of icetime, he did't get icetime like the superstars do now (or then, for that matter), hell even like Zach does now.

check this out, it sticks out like a sore thumb:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20012ALLSASAll&sort=points&viewName=summary

out of the top 20 scorers, only three players have less ATOI than Elias. one is Robitallie by 1 second per game, the other two... are Devils. most of the top guys played 4-5 minutes a game more... Bure played EIGHT minutes a game more.

I think I did the math right, at Sakic's ice time, he would have gone 49-69-118. I won't do it by Bure's icetime, because that's just a ridiculous amount of ice time and you'd have to figure playing 26+ is a hinderance, more than a help.

Elias was absolutely an elite player, the problem was that he only was really for around 18 months. his talent level was far above Zach's (and I don't think Zach is a stiff, far from it), and he was able to work from the outside. if Zach could work from the outside, he'd basically be a smaller Ovechkin.

[Triumph]

you can't compare ice time that linearly. one has to recognize that players with more ice time tend to have diminished scoring in that time. nonetheless, elias definitely got some luck that season - and his 01-02 and 02-03 campaigns speak to that.