GDT: Avalanche @ Devils 7:00 EST

[sundstrom]

gah, i know you are watching the whole game. i'm saying that there is so much going on at a hockey game that something so minor as 'brodeur not freezing the puck' can't be lingering in your mind unless it leads to a scoring chance/goal against. when it does, then it registers.

when you're on the lookout for things like this, they do register. i might miss the nice play that arnott makes to get a puck out of the zone but i'm not going to miss anything that marty does as you're always concentrating when the puck is near him so you focus on everything he does.

[Triumph]

when you're on the lookout for things like this, they do register. i might miss the nice play that arnott makes to get a puck out of the zone but i'm not going to miss anything that marty does as you're always concentrating when the puck is near him so you focus on everything he does.

it's not a question of missing it, it's a question of being able to recall it later - there's a difference.

you can't have a constant screen in front and move the puck around wonderfully - the devils learned this last year. doesn't anyone remember the hue and cry about clarkson constantly being at the front of the net and the devils turning their power plays into 4 on 4s? the devils had a ton of zone time and generated lots of excellent scoring chances.

[sundstrom]

alright ron burgandy, we're going to agree to disagree here.

you've seen the twitter "war" already today. my point was that marty was clearly the most responsible party for the loss last night and while i think age/reflexes have more to do with it, his style is just as much a culprit. when you're 38 years old, you're not snapping back into place like you did as a kid. marty makes a move and then sort of flops and lunges after that. the secondary reaction time is gone.

[Derlique]

Hey, why doesn't anyone put any blame on Zach Parise, everyones golden boy? 1 goal in 5, 0 assists. Kovy is actually scoring goals

[thegame346]

Once again the Devils make an average goaltender look like an all-star. Softie goal against Marty wound up costing us the game. Kovalchuk looked strog, so did Taor... whatever. D is still puke ugly. With play like this we'll be lucky to get 30 wins. If we can turn it around and play equal to the type of talent we have we should win the east. Cheers.

[Pepperkorn]

gah, i know you are watching the whole game. i'm saying that there is so much going on at a hockey game that something so minor as 'brodeur not freezing the puck' can't be lingering in your mind unless it leads to a scoring chance/goal against. when it does, then it registers.

Yes -- they ABSOLUTELY register. I've long thought you watch a game differently than I.... and in chat even you're pretty much looking up stats the whole time just to see if they verify what you suspect you're looking at ... you can't get the feel for all the intangibles of hockey that way even in the slightest. It's nuts in fact.

You watch I know -- but sometimes things seem inexplicable to you and I think that's because you don't trust the look and feel of a game -- you need some sort of independent confirmation of the on ice happenings. Hockey isn't like that. It's an art not a science. Science is for practice. Art has to take over at game time.

Keeping the puck moving is part of Marty's art --- the flow needs to keep going for him. Actually this not covering used to drive me nuts 2000-2004 - now... heavy sigh --- it's not the -- this was what I noticed game before last... he doesn't trust his team -- so he doesn't commit fully to keeping the puck moving. Its not something specific - it's when he flips a puck to a guy it's when he's trying to clear it on his own.... he;s just holding back -- ti's a lack of trust I feel - I watched him almost flip a puck to fraser and fraser just smash in a sloppy grab it away -- then I saw him flip it to Tallinder - see now there was an exhale -- it worked but there's no time for an exhale even for the most part. It's infinitesimal hitches in his play and he gets off tempo so he, despite keeping the flow is thrown off his time.

Yes.

Yesyesyesyesy -- you see it if you're watching a game. You have to know that.

[Pepperkorn]

the secondary reaction time is gone.

this is also just a sad fact of life. Scientifically proven to visibly start at 36. After 40 - pretty much nothing can hide it and it will decline steadily from there.

I was hoping the trust would go up and make up for the slowing -- but it's sort of the opposite and it could get ugly. A vicious antitrust cycle could get going. I sort of trust Arnott to not let that happen although he coudl be just the guy to get a ball like that rolling. I dont see him doing that now... I think he knows what's up and I just feel he's got a nice intuition now -- if he doesn't jam up himself I honestly think he's got so much power for change.

you knwo and I hated Arnott here but I watched a lot of nashville and you can see he foudna way to work hard with an appropriately light touch. but ... Devils can somehow manage to find a way to put an anvil on it all...

so do you all think DM will ever give me my chat permissions back...?

I'll be busy tonight so RATS. I'd like to be watching all these games because there is an answer here.

anyhow.... so... bye!

Edited October 16, 2010 by Pepperkorn

[H.E. Pennypacker]

haha you are fvcking mental it is awesome.

[Devils731]

Yes -- they ABSOLUTELY register.

A lot of things "register" as self reinforcing what was already believed.

I watch a game, think White plays really well and then come on the board and a bunch of people think he sucked. When asked why he sucked they'll mention one bad pass or one play where the other team got a puck or body through. They won't remember the many more times White made good plays during that game. The reason why? Only the plays the reinforced their existing belief registered. The good plays White made just faded into the background as part of the game.

Heck, to continue the White thing, he's been pretty awesome this year and you'll still see Devils fans talk about how he's been weak and really needs to be AHL bound. They see/register what they expect, not what's actually happening.

It's impossible for all of us to avoid it on some level, but recognizing the fact that we all do this makes it easier to limit how badly we do it. I think Clarkson has pretty much stunk since he came back from being hurt last year and I know I'm being overly critical of him right now. Every turnover makes me roll my eyes, but I'm not holding other players on the team to that level. I'm definitely self reinforcing my poor opinion on Clarkson this year, but, like I said, none of us can help doing that so I still think he's playing poorly.

[KC Devil]

they look exactly like last season nothing's changed

I wish they looked exactly like last season....Atlantic Division Champions

And if it is all 'cuz of the 1st round play-off loss, then Washington sucks ass, too

It never ceases to amaze me how people on this board are ready to "hang Marty", kill "Whitey", count Clarkson's wrap-around fall-down's, cut Lags balls off, etc. whenever the Devs lose 2 or 3 games in a row. Amazing......yet, when I check back here after a 3 game winning streak, it will all be about "the Cup is ours", "here we go", Lags is a GREAT captain, etc..

Would everyone just sit back, wait for another 10-15 games, and then make some rational observations? It's like a junior Montreal media in here. We'll get it going........or we won't....but, history dictates that we will be okay by the season's end.

[sundstrom]

kc - this team is so much different from any team the devils have iced in the last 5 years, that relying on past history is simply not sufficient.

besides the fact that there are about 8 guys on this team that weren't here at the start of last year, you have age which renders past seasons moot.

i will still say that all i care about it making the playoffs. past seasons of being a high seed and plowing through regular seasons have proven that the second season is what counts.

i don't think this team is terribly flawed. efforts like last night (aside from brodeur) will result in wins 75% of the time. if they play like that every night and just add a little finish (i'm making this sound easier than it is), they'll be fine in the regular season.

[DevilinLA]

Maybe you're just watching from too far away. For every good play Jamie makes, it's a long time coming. He more often than not is getting beat, making lazy decisions, losing battles like tonight on the second goal...and so on.

YEa Zubrus doesn't score on the breakaway - and NO you couldn't get that from Madden from 1m/1yr. No one on this team is protecting the puck as good as Dainus.

Actually effort does win games. We need to move Jamie, so we can more time to players who give a fvck.

And Jamie is holding PAtrik back...

Yeah my Center Ice feed is less accurate here on the West Coast - thats why I just don't get it.

Anything else you want to prejudge by?

[MantaRay]

Hey, why doesn't anyone put any blame on Zach Parise, everyones golden boy? 1 goal in 5, 0 assists. Kovy is actually scoring goals

If Parise had Langs on his other wing he would be scoring in bunches.

[Triumph]

Yeah my Center Ice feed is less accurate here on the West Coast - thats why I just don't get it.

Anything else you want to prejudge by?

i think he was implying that being at the games gives one a better perspective. i think everyone on the board should read 731's post, though, it gives a pretty great account of how selection bias works. and i'm not saying i'm immune, because i most certainly am not.

If Parise had Langs on his other wing he would be scoring in bunches.

i love when posters go from relatively normal to flat out trolls. yes if it were 2008, this might be true.

[pattyelias]

If Parise had Langs on his other wing he would be scoring in bunches.

Might be true but if that's the case blame the coaching instead of Kovalchuk.

Edited October 16, 2010 by pattyelias

[cubanjd305]

Yeah my Center Ice feed is less accurate here on the West Coast - thats why I just don't get it.

Anything else you want to prejudge by?

Maybe he's watching from too close

[NJDevs4978]

i love when posters go from relatively normal to flat out trolls. yes if it were 2008, this might be true.

Or even the first part of 2009. Langs is just not the same player (or person) anymore and people can stop blaming Jacques for that now.

[maxpower]

I saw the goal like 26 times last night. he moves his glove. it's late. and it was a bomb. it was a bomb live and it was a bomb on TV.

yes, maybe he gets it when he's 28. but when he was 28, he also would have gotten far fvcking better coverage than he got on that play, even from the 3rd pair guys

[Triumph]

I saw the goal like 26 times last night. he moves his glove. it's late. and it was a bomb. it was a bomb live and it was a bomb on TV.

yes, maybe he gets it when he's 28. but when he was 28, he also would have gotten far fvcking better coverage than he got on that play, even from the 3rd pair guys

that's true. scott stevens would have willed the defensemen to cover the play better. i remember the huge emphasis on stopping shots outside the circles that the devils had back then.

[maxpower]

that's true. scott stevens would have willed the defensemen to cover the play better. i remember the huge emphasis on stopping shots outside the circles that the devils had back then.

uh huh, I remember some great defensive plays like Tallinder forgetting that Greene already had the other guy and giving the shooter 20 minutes to tee up, instead of pressuring him.

you guys act like it was on the blue line, it was about a step outside the circle. if that's what you think is a bad goal, well, with their mighty defensive stylings and a 38 year old goalie, they're going to give up alot of bad goals this year.

[Triumph]

uh huh, I remember some great defensive plays like Tallinder forgetting that Greene already had the other guy and giving the shooter 20 minutes to tee up, instead of pressuring him.

you guys act like it was on the blue line, it was about a step outside the circle. if that's what you think is a bad goal, well, with their mighty defensive stylings and a 38 year old goalie, they're going to give up alot of bad goals this year.

so on the one hand, this is the hardest shot you've ever seen, but on the other hand, the devils are going to give up a ton of goals like this. agreed that tallinder should be totally comfortable after 5 games as a devil.

i don't think it's a bad goal necessarily, but everyone's got their pet thing to bash.

[maxpower]

so on the one hand, this is the hardest shot you've ever seen, but on the other hand, the devils are going to give up a ton of goals like this. agreed that tallinder should be totally comfortable after 5 games as a devil.

i don't think it's a bad goal necessarily, but everyone's got their pet thing to bash.

I'm not asking for "totally comfortable", I'm asking for "remotely competant". all I heard about Tallinder (didn't see him enough to make a judgement myself, nor did anyone else for that matter, unless they were Sabres junkies or like Jeanerette, but I digress), is how steady he is, always makes the right decision, sound, etc.

and what I get is Kovalchuk at the point.

he better find "remotely competant" sooner or later, or we got had.