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Happy 50th to the Great One


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I got to see him play a few times, and he was something else entirely. Some of his records are just insane - 51 game point streak? 50 hat tricks? He holds more NHL records than his age in years, and quite a few are likely safe for the next couple of decades at a minimum.

I can forgive the "Mickey mouse" comments, so I'll leave that at that.

Happy Birthday Wayne, thanks for your enormous contribution to the sport.

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I got to see him play a few times, and he was something else entirely. Some of his records are just insane - 51 game point streak? 50 hat tricks? He holds more NHL records than his age in years, and quite a few are likely safe for the next couple of decades at a minimum.

I can forgive the "Mickey mouse" comments, so I'll leave that at that.

Happy Birthday Wayne, thanks for your enormous contribution to the sport.

More like "the next forever", since goalies wear decent equipment and actually try to stop pucks now.

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I got to see him play a few times, and he was something else entirely. Some of his records are just insane - 51 game point streak? 50 hat tricks? He holds more NHL records than his age in years, and quite a few are likely safe for the next couple of decades at a minimum.

I can forgive the "Mickey mouse" comments, so I'll leave that at that.

Happy Birthday Wayne, thanks for your enormous contribution to the sport.

Hard to beat those records when the game has not and will never ever be the same like the 80's shooting gallery days of hockey. We now have bigger players and goalies these days have pads the size of mattresses.

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All the people trying to discredit his records saying the goalies weren't good, scoring was high in the 80s, etc. need to realize that nobody else put up numbers anywhere near his, so it's not like everyone was scoring at will back then. What makes him the best ever is how much better he was than all the other players OF HIS TIME. You can't compare players from different eras. Obviously the game has evolved but nobody now is as dominant as he was.

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All the people trying to discredit his records saying the goalies weren't good, scoring was high in the 80s, etc. need to realize that nobody else put up numbers anywhere near his, so it's not like everyone was scoring at will back then. What makes him the best ever is how much better he was than all the other players OF HIS TIME. You can't compare players from different eras. Obviously the game has evolved but nobody now is as dominant as he was.

Last season, only 4 of the top 10 points scorers broke 100 points. In 85-86, Gretzky's best point season, all 10 of the top 10 points scorers had over 100 points. 7 out of the top 10 in 85-86 had more points than Sedin, who had the most points last year.

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Last season, only 4 of the top 10 points scorers broke 100 points. In 85-86, Gretzky's best point season, all 10 of the top 10 points scorers had over 100 points. 7 out of the top 10 in 85-86 had more points than Sedin, who had the most points last year.

Yea I understand, my point is that he is the greatest because of how much better he was than everyone else playing in the league the same time he was.

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Yea I understand, my point is that he is the greatest because of how much better he was than everyone else playing in the league the same time he was.

Which is why I have a problem when people will say he is/will be the greatest of all-time.

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Which is why I have a problem when people will say he is/will be the greatest of all-time.

The only way to compare people from different eras is to consider the discrepancy between the player and everyone else playing at the time. Nobody today is as dominant as Gretzky was. I'm not going to say he will be the greatest forever because we have no idea how dominant any future player will be, but nobody today is as good as he was in that sense.

If Gretzky played now with the talent he had then, he wouldn't be as dominant, but he would also have access to the same training and equipment that current players have.

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The only way to compare people from different eras is to consider the discrepancy between the player and everyone else playing at the time. Nobody today is as dominant as Gretzky was. I'm not going to say he will be the greatest forever because we have no idea how dominant any future player will be, but nobody today is as good as he was in that sense.

If Gretzky played now with the talent he had then, he wouldn't be as dominant, but he would also have access to the same training and equipment that current players have.

Again, a lot of that was due to the fact of the era he played in. In fact, a lot of players in that era you could argue would be dominant now with the numbers they put up then, it is just that he had a great supporting cast back then with Kurri on his wing to help him rack up all those assists. He is def in the top 3 all-time offenseman, just do not think #1 in offense and best player in any position all-time. (For me that is either Orr or Lemieux)

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Gretzky was awesome but he wasn't a game changer. Those Oilers teams of the eighties were a perfect storm of talent. The Oilers were a pretty solid team in the WHA and one can argue that the introduction of Scandinavian players after the acquisition of the Nords, Jets, Whalers and Oilers by the NHL was a big shock to the league. A really excellent book to pick up is "Rebel League" by Ed Willes. It's all about the WHA and it's a fascinating read.

Not even Gretzky could help the Kings, Blues or Rags get to the ultimate prize.

I actually read somewhere that Gretzky was terrible on the penalty shot.

Gretzky also had McSorley as like his personal enforcer. McSorley was someone to be feared back then. Actually, McSorley going with Gretzky to LA was one of Gretz's stipulations.

Penguins suck. Mario Lemieux played for the Penguins, ergo Lemieux sucks.

No, seriously he was really talented and had to fight through a lot. I read he had such terrible back problems that he couldn't even tie his own skates but he still went out and played. That's dedication.

Edited by CarpathianForest
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All the people trying to discredit his records saying the goalies weren't good, scoring was high in the 80s, etc. need to realize that nobody else put up numbers anywhere near his, so it's not like everyone was scoring at will back then. What makes him the best ever is how much better he was than all the other players OF HIS TIME. You can't compare players from different eras. Obviously the game has evolved but nobody now is as dominant as he was.

But we're not talking about whether he's the greatest player of all time, we're talking about whether his records will ever be broken. They won't be, unless they find a conversion to turn today's stats into the stats of the 80s, where everyone and their mothers were PPG players.

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Again, a lot of that was due to the fact of the era he played in. In fact, a lot of players in that era you could argue would be dominant now with the numbers they put up then, it is just that he had a great supporting cast back then with Kurri on his wing to help him rack up all those assists. He is def in the top 3 all-time offenseman, just do not think #1 in offense and best player in any position all-time. (For me that is either Orr or Lemieux)

Fair enough, he did have a good supporting cast, but then again I think many legendary superstars did. I'm not going to argue over whether he is the best ever because I don't think anyone can win that argument and I never had the chance to see guys like Orr and Howe play. I'm just addressing the opinion held by some that Gretzky's records should not be held in such high regard compared to today's players.

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But we're not talking about whether he's the greatest player of all time, we're talking about whether his records will ever be broken. They won't be, unless they find a conversion to turn today's stats into the stats of the 80s, where everyone and their mothers were PPG players.

But you also don't know how the game will change in the next 20, 50, or 100 years. Who in the 80s predicted what the NHL would be like in 2002? We have no idea how the game will change. Perhaps for some reason decades in the future they will decide to play four on four throughout regulation, we don't know what's going to happen, so we don't know if his records will be broken.

Another point is that forever is a really long time, suppose the NHL exists as it is now for another 500 years. I think over a long enough time span it's safe to say someone could come along and break his records just as I think it's safe to say that the universe is so vast that there are probably aliens out there.

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But you also don't know how the game will change in the next 20, 50, or 100 years. Who in the 80s predicted what the NHL would be like in 2002? We have no idea how the game will change. Perhaps for some reason decades in the future they will decide to play four on four throughout regulation, we don't know what's going to happen, so we don't know if his records will be broken.

If that's the case then I don't see why the records should even be kept in the same rule book. Maybe Bettman decides to start using soccer nets for goals in order to increase goal totals. Perhaps then somebody could challenge Gretzky's records, but it wouldn't exactly be the same thing, would it?

Another point is that forever is a really long time, suppose the NHL exists as it is now for another 500 years. I think over a long enough time span it's safe to say someone could come along and break his records just as I think it's safe to say that the universe is so vast that there are probably aliens out there.

You're taking things a little too literally now.

Edited by iamtheprodigy
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If that's the case then I don't see why the records should even be kept in the same rule book. Maybe Bettman decides to start using soccer nets for goals in order to increase goal totals. Perhaps then somebody could challenge Gretzky's records, but it wouldn't exactly be the same thing, would it?

That's just the way it is, the game changes, so you can't assume the league will always be exactly how it is now.

You're taking things a little too literally now.

Why?

Are we at least agreed on the "Happy Birthday" part? LOL :)

No, I hope he has an awful birthday. :P

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Gretzky was awesome but he wasn't a game changer.

You don't have to think he was the game's all time greatest player...which can be argued from a million different angles anyway; but to say the league's all time leading scorer and someone that scored over 200 points 4 times in his career wasn't a game changer is the definition of insane. There is just no rational way that can be argued.

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You don't have to think he was the game's all time greatest player...which can be argued from a million different angles anyway; but to say the league's all time leading scorer and someone that scored over 200 points 4 times in his career wasn't a game changer is the definition of insane. There is just no rational way that can be argued.

I'm talking about game changer in the bigger sense which pretty much no athlete in any sport is a game changer. Gretzky didn't get the Rangers, Blues or Kings a Stanley Cup ring. As a matter of fact the Oilers won one more cup when he left.

His impact in hockey was huge, but he's not the be all end all of the sport.

Like I mentioned before, the Oilers' success in the eighties was due in large part to a bunch of other things not just Gretzky. I'm sure Messier, Kurri, Coffey and Fuhr had something to do with their success.

Saying this guy or that guy was the game's all-time greatest player is a silly argument. One guy could say it's Gretz cause he scored so much and was so talented, one guy could say it's Orr because he changed the way defensemen were utlized, or Maurice Richard, or Gordie Howe or Lemieux, the list goes on and on.

Edited by CarpathianForest
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