PAT MUST STICK WITH GEG

[Elias Sports Bureau]

Marshall is not an offensive player and there is no reason why he should be on the powerplay....and don't give me that physical pressence in front of the net garbage, Ottawa, Detroit, and Colorado don't stick a big 4th liner on their powerplay units.

We've always had physical presence in front of the net on some of our unit. Stan used to tout Jim McKenzie for the job and he wasn't even as good at it as Marsh or Turner.

The reason why it gets done here is because it worked. It worked in the playoffs, it's got us in the middle of the pack this year instead of last in the league.

There's nothing wrong with the first power-play unit. It's getting all the goals that we get on the PP.

[Elias Sports Bureau]

Gionta is skill, a player like Rupp gives you size and skill.

Rupp gives us nothing. I'm less and less impressed with him every day. He seemed to forget everything he had learned and was doing before he got sat when he came back. I don't go yelling deal people, but if we can get something for him... well I don't think he fits the system at all.

He doesn't have hockey smarts, in regards to what this team is trying to do, and he only fares well when people do the work for him.

I don't need to see him skate through a couple guys only to not get his shot off. Again, I'd rather have the guys with heart out there. Esp. since they have as many... or more points than him.

[Don]

... a player like Rupp gives you size and skill.

But mostly just size.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

We done it ever since we lost our two offensive RW's. No it isn't effective becasue of marshall it is becasue Elias and Gomez are finally playing well. All the PP goals I seen have been created by Gomez, Elias, Niedermayer and Rafalski.....Marshall does nothing except allow the PK'ers to focus on the left side on the ice.

[Weekes Head]

Gionta is skill, a player like Rupp gives you size and skill.

Really? Where's all that skill then? I've yet to see it...well...on a consistant basis, anyways...

Then again, maybe if he kept his feet on the ice instead of his butt on the ground, he might be able to actually show a little of that skill.

Until then, I'd say he's mostly size, not skill.

[LizDevil30]

Gionta is skill, a player like Rupp gives you size and skill.

Hmmm, I'm still waiting to see Rupp's skill. He isn't falling down as much, so his skating skill is improving. But I'd bet Gionta could steal the puck from him fly downt the ice and score a goal. B) Rupp might get within a few feet of him, once he picked himself up off the ice that is. Obviously the honeymoon with Rupp has worn off for me.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

... a player like Rupp gives you size and skill.

But mostly just size.

Rupp has great hands and I was impressed by him in the Toronto game, it is pretty hard to do anything with Rasmussen and Stevenson. You see what happens to players like Berglund, Rupp and Gionta when playing with the likes of Friesen, Langnebrnner, Elias and Gomez. Players can only be as good as their linemates, you seen how good Gomez was on the 4th line....well Rpp is in the same situation.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

Gionta is skill, a player like Rupp gives you size and skill.

Really? Where's all that skill then? I've yet to see it...well...on a consistant basis, anyways...

Then again, maybe if he kept his feet on the ice instead of his butt on the ground, he might be able to actually show a little of that skill.

Until then, I'd say he's mostly size, not skill.

Do you ever watch him stickhandle.....the guy has great hands for a 6`5 230 pound beast. PowerForwards take alot longer to develop....look at players like Bell and Bertuzzi. Pyatt is another that Buffalo is waiting for. Rupp did get us a cup...you all seemed to hold on to Friesen ad Marshall becasue of their runs yet you throw away the one that actually won the cup.

[Elias Sports Bureau]

We done it ever since we lost our two offensive RW's. No it isn't effective becasue of marshall it is becasue Elias and Gomez are finally playing well. All the PP goals I seen have been created by Gomez, Elias, Niedermayer and Rafalski.....Marshall does nothing except allow the PK'ers to focus on the left side on the ice.

No one said it was effective BECAUSE of Marshall. But it's effective with him there.

He's told to go plant himself at the net. He does it. He blocks the line of vision. It's solid.

Now about that SECOND UNIT... which I just realized that when they play I'm sitting there waiting for the first unit to come back out. Do they even get CLOSE to a goal on the PP???

We certainly have enough talent for two PP units. Hopefully bringing this to light will get us three goals from that unit tonight. And I will be the happiest one.

Really but the Marshall issue is secondary, tertiary or maybe even dozeniary to what our PP problem should be considered. He has more PP points than guys who should have them.

[Elias Sports Bureau]

Do you ever watch him stickhandle.....the guy has great hands for a 6`5 230 pound beast. PowerForwards take alot longer to develop....look at players like Bell and Bertuzzi. Pyatt is another that Buffalo is waiting for. Rupp did get us a cup...you all seemed to hold on to Friesen ad Marshall becasue of their runs yet you throw away the one that actually won the cup.

I see him stickhandle. I see him go through guys and then blow the plays. Without even a shot. That's why people have lost enthusiasm for him.

He played very very well in last year's Finals. He hasn't played nearly as well this year. He hasn't played smartly. Friesen and Langenbrunner gave him an awful lot to work with. They've played a little together this year, but not much and I guess Burnsy wasn't very impressed.

He doesn't seem to have it IN him to be a Bertuzzi, let alone that he's not built like a freight truck. Some guys, just don't have that drive. That's why everyone's not a Forsberg-type player. You have to have it in your head and your heart as well as your ability.

Edited March 1, 2004 by Elias Sports Bureau

[Jerrydevil]

I know that Marshall is good at being a pylon, but there's got to be someone who can be a pylon and handle/shoot the puck, too!

I remember when Stan toted McKenzie for the PP. The Diet Coke I was drinking nearly came out of my nose.

Sorry for the visual.

I've seen Madden on the PP lately, too. That's as bad as running Marshall out there.

[Triumph]

Marshall's all we've got for that.

Rupp is a joke, even mentioning Bertuzzi in the same sentence with him is a joke. Yeah, yeah, I know, power forwards take a long time to develop. But this is a player who has not scored 20 goals on any professional level. He has never been consistently dominant at any level of hockey, either major junior or the AHL. The Devils will get rid of him soon. If not at the deadline, he will be waived by December 1, 2004 (assuming an NHL season next year, which I shouldn't be).

The Devils don't have anyone to set up on a power play with a good shot that can go in unscreened from the top of the slot. So, they need a guy who can take the punishment in front, screen the goalie, and maybe get a few deflections. That guy is Marshall. How many times last year did I hear Chico's famous "Well, they're getting shots on the power play, it was a good power play." as I hear the opposing goalie banging his stick on the ice once again. It's because the Devils didn't get in front of the net enough and don't have the kind of shooters that can operate a power play without getting in front.

Edited March 1, 2004 by Triumph

[LizDevil30]

The Devils will get rid of him soon. If not at the deadline, he will be waived by December 1, 2004.

Trade him! Get something for him.

[LizDevil30]

Just a thought, anyone of interest on the Blue Jackets? Maybe Rupp would like to go home.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

Marshall's all we've got for that.

Rupp is a joke, even mentioning Bertuzzi in the same sentence with him is a joke. Yeah, yeah, I know, power forwards take a long time to develop. But this is a player who has not scored 20 goals on any professional level. He has never been consistently dominant at any level of hockey, either major junior or the AHL. The Devils will get rid of him soon. If not at the deadline, he will be waived by December 1, 2004 (assuming an NHL season next year, which I shouldn't be).

The Devils don't have anyone to set up on a power play with a good shot that can go in unscreened from the top of the slot. So, they need a guy who can take the punishment in front, screen the goalie, and maybe get a few deflections. That guy is Marshall. How many times last year did I hear Chico's famous "Well, they're getting shots on the power play, it was a good power play." as I hear the opposing goalie banging his stick on the ice once again. It's because the Devils didn't get in front of the net enough and don't have the kind of shooters that can operate a power play without getting in front.

MARSHALL SUCKS.....get it through your head...he doesn't have a shot, he is slower then Daneyko, he takes dump penalties, and is horribleeeeeeeeeee defensivly. Look at the stats then look at him play....Marshall sucks

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

BTW Jackman update, last night had a goal and an assist which puts him to 9 points in 9 games.

[Triumph]

Uh, again, my point was never that Jackman sucks, just that Toronto had no place for him, which is true. They were never going to give him 25 minutes a game like Pittsburgh is. And he can score all the points he wants, it means very little until he can do it for a good team. Toronto does not regret dealing Richard Jackman. They weren't going to get anything more for him.

I see Marshall tied for 3rd on the team in power play goals. That seems like a pretty good stat.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

By the looks of his stats so far maybe they should have played him 18 min a game ahead of bums like Marchment and Berg.

Behind Elias and Niedermayer.....who else is going to shoot the puck. Elias adn Niedermayer probably have well over half the PP goals.

[Nieuwy25]

By the looks of his stats so far maybe they should have played him 18 min a game ahead of bums like Marchment and Berg.

Behind Elias and Niedermayer.....who else is going to shoot the puck. Elias adn Niedermayer probably have well over half the PP goals.

They tried that, Jason. He wasn't good.

Malhotra's doing great in Columbus, too. He was not going to get that kind of time in Dallas behind Modo, Arnott, Turgeon, even Kapanen. Same thing with Jackman. Pittsburgh is a better fit for him.

[Triumph]

Typical fallacy of ignoring context and assuming all teams are the same.

Nieuwy's got a good point about Malhotra. He too was a bust on two teams, now he's doing well on Columbus. The real proof will be if and when he can play well on a playoff team. Same with Jackman. Playoff teams can't afford to sit around and wait until these guys play well. That's why Mike Rupp will be gone. And that's why the Devils released Pierre Dagenais, and now he's going to score 20 goals for Montreal. Who cares? He was never going to do that here.

And Elias and Niedermayer don't have well over half. I closed the stats, but I believe Elias has 8, Niedermayer 7, Marshall, Brylin, and Friesen with 5.

Edited March 1, 2004 by Triumph

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

I didn't realize the 2nd line had that many PP goals.

[Jerrydevil]

All right, I'll cut Marshall a little slack. He screens the goalie pretty well, and he cleans up the garbage once in a while.....I know it irritated someone when I brought up McKay, but he was a good PP grinder. Marshall isn't quite as good.

[Swede]

Marshall is not an offensive player and there is no reason why he should be on the powerplay....and don't give me that physical pressence in front of the net garbage, Ottawa, Detroit, and Colorado don't stick a big 4th liner on their powerplay units.

Well, if you watch the Detroit powerplay, you might se a guy wearing #96 standing infront of the goalie for the entire 2 minutes (or at least it feels that way)

Sometimes Ottawa puts Chara down there... and he isn't exactly Giontasize.

I feel that it is vital to have someone infront of the net to tie up a defender and interfere with the tender from time to time. Marshall might not be the answer, but you have got to have someone there

[Derek21]

But while the Goal Every Game (GEG) Line of Scott Gomez, Patrik Elias and Brian Gionta was turning into the EGG Line, as in goose-egg, in Saturday's 3-0 loss in Toronto, Burns went further. Too far, perhaps.

That explains his nickname for them. Even when he writes a good article, he still gets ripped . This was a well written column about the Devils' problems. Burns should give his top line more time because they're the only ones scoring.

The whole Rupp debate is interesting. But I agree with Jason about him. He's got size and skill. It's hard to do much when you're reduced to a 4th line guy playing with hands of stone Rasmussen and Stevenson. If you surrounded Rupp with quality players (Ex. Friesen and Langenbrunner), he'd do well. You can argue that he's inconsistent and doesn't deserve it. Fine. But last I checked, the only way a young player starts to develop is if the coach shows confidence in them.

Look at Manny Malhotra. He never was given a role on the Rangers. He played his best in his rookie season when Gretzky went down increasing expectations. Then had a good stint with Messier and Dvorak towards the end of Year Three ('00-01). He had some chemistry with them but as usual, didn't get a sniff the following season because that's how the Rangers are . Just look at Lundmark. A player with more talent and a guy willing to mix it up and all he gets is 8-9 minutes. It's difficult to have success that way with 4th liners. I'm guessing Dallas was the same situation because of their depth up the middle. Now, in Columbus, he's getting 12-14 minutes of ice and succeeding in an actual role.

Ric Jackman is fast becoming another one quickly for the Pens. He definitely has a good shot. Saw that one-timer goal he scored at the Isles yesterday. And he has some ability. If he continues to play well, that deal will go down as a smart one by Craig Patrick.

And finally, Pierre Dagenais. He's proving exactly what I always believed. That he could be a good goalscorer at this level. I still never understood why the Devils just tossed him away like trash. That small stint where he had five points (3-2-5) in 9 games was ample proof that he had ability. I guess he just didn't fit their system, right?

That explains his +11 rating in Montreal. He never got a sniff in Florida but the Habs took a chance because Mike Ribeiro and him were teammates in juniors. They lit it up together. So, the Habs signed him and he earned his way back up. Then, found a chemistry with his good pal. Now, he's starting to show signs that he can be successful. He's always had a good shot and is smart at getting open around the net. Watch the game tonight. He'll try to sneak into an area for a one-time pass from Ribeiro setting up behind the net. It's a good fit. Plus they have the dangerous Michael Ryder on the line. So, it's triple threat.

Bottom line is with any young player, they have to be shown confidence from their coach. If they don't get enough ice-time, it's tough to succeed at any level.

[Triumph]

The coach only shows confidence in him if he's given a reason to. Scott Gomez started off with Krys Oliwa and Denis Pederson on his wing. 15 games into the season Lou L thought he was playing so well that he got Claude Lemieux for him to play with.

Manny Malhotra's another story, he may have gotten screwed by the Rangers. But Dagenais and Rupp are or were giant liabilities. Rupp still can't backcheck well and he's just not a 2nd line player in the NHL. Period. Not yet, anyway. He wasn't even a 2nd line player in the AHL. I know he has skill, but he refuses to play his way off the 4th line. It's not about confidence, it's about showing your coach that you're too good for the position you've been put in, by making an impact every game. Rupp doesn't do that.

And Dagenais had skill, but ALL he does is score. That's not Lou's strategy; he gets guys that can do it all. Dagenais is scoring well now, but as I said all through the Dage debate, if he is not scoring 30 goals a season, he's not worth it. He's not a good playmaker, he's not a good skater, he doesn't play good physical hockey, all he does is score and every minute he's out there not scoring, he's hurting your team by wasting a roster spot.

Montreal can have Dagenais. He might even turn out like Sheppard or Andreychuk and end up with 200-300 career goals. He'll also probably be like them and never win a Stanley Cup.