The 2014 NJ Devils Offseason Thread

[RizzMB30]

it also means he can go back and forth without having to pass through waivers, i believe.

This is what I was referring to.  Hopefully Sestito or Gionta down in the minors.  I know I should hold my breath. 

[The 29th Pick]

This is what I was referring to.  Hopefully Sestito or Gionta down in the minors.  I know I should hold my breath. 

as long as Pete's coaching this team, Gionta is playing with the big club

[Daniel]

I've definitely been a drinker of Lou-Aid for a while, but I'm starting to get the feeling that this is going to be a disastrous offseason.  I know just having discussions with the fourth liners doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it could be a sign that there really isn't much of a plan to improve the forward depth.  (As I said, I don't really have a problem with those players as such, but the fact that they're still in the discussion is an indicator of what else is there, i.e. not much).

 

And the fact that we've heard about "discussions" with other players, but only the usual boilerplate that Lou would like to have Fayne back (same stuff we heard with Brian Gionta, Clarkson and Martin) seems to me that there's not much of an effort there, and that he's not going to be re-signed.  It would be criminal if Fayne goes, but Salvador stays.  Then of course there's the potential disaster of losing Gelinas or Larsson to waivers (I believe Gelinas is waiver eligible, and I know Larsson is).  The only thing I'm taking as a given at this point is that Volchenkov gets bought out.  That doesn't really solve much.

 

In a way, the analytics person might cause Lou to double down is his attachment to players like Salvador, who, when you think about it, doesn't even bring much to the table in terms of his supposed intangibles and leadership.  Jagr was obviously the de facto captain this year, and I don't see why Zajac couldn't handle the lockerroom stuff just as well or at least sufficiently. And even if you assume the guy still has his "clutchness" for playoff hockey (and it's a doubtful premise that he ever had it) it isn't worth anything if you can't get to the playoffs, or if you end up facing Boston in the first round.

[Triumph]

it also means he can go back and forth without having to pass through waivers, i believe.

 

This better be a joke.  If so it's a good one.

[fsu1852]

it also means he can go back and forth without having to pass through waivers, i believe.

 

Nah, just means he can take a lower salary if he is in the AHL

[devilsrule33]

I've definitely been a drinker of Lou-Aid for a while, but I'm starting to get the feeling that this is going to be a disastrous offseason.  I know just having discussions with the fourth liners doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it could be a sign that there really isn't much of a plan to improve the forward depth.  (As I said, I don't really have a problem with those players as such, but the fact that they're still in the discussion is an indicator of what else is there, i.e. not much).

 

And the fact that we've heard about "discussions" with other players, but only the usual boilerplate that Lou would like to have Fayne back (same stuff we heard with Brian Gionta, Clarkson and Martin) seems to me that there's not much of an effort there, and that he's not going to be re-signed.  It would be criminal if Fayne goes, but Salvador stays.  Then of course there's the potential disaster of losing Gelinas or Larsson to waivers (I believe Gelinas is waiver eligible, and I know Larsson is).  The only thing I'm taking as a given at this point is that Volchenkov gets bought out.  That doesn't really solve much.

 

In a way, the analytics person might cause Lou to double down is his attachment to players like Salvador, who, when you think about it, doesn't even bring much to the table in terms of his supposed intangibles and leadership.  Jagr was obviously the de facto captain this year, and I don't see why Zajac couldn't handle the lockerroom stuff just as well or at least sufficiently. And even if you assume the guy still has his "clutchness" for playoff hockey (and it's a doubtful premise that he ever had it) it isn't worth anything if you can't get to the playoffs, or if you end up facing Boston in the first round.

 

I really think this is a great off-season to judge if Lou is the right GM for the future (No, he won't ever be fired, but the average fans needs to judge him like any other GM and forget his name is Lou) or where this team might go. I know he might be handcuffed in some respects, and I know rebuilding is never on the table for him, but after two crummy years (not all his fault), he is either seeing what's wrong with this team or not.

 

Salvador/Volch over Fayne would be criminal. Bringing back the entire 4th line...stupid. Thinking that this forward group is remotely good enough,,,not a chance.

 

I fvcking hate talk about leadership. Leaders are used for players that win or are old and sucky. I'm taking talent over all the BS intangibles all day. Everything Lou talks about is the character and leadership this guy brings (Jagr, Zidlicky...already). We've got a lineup full of it apparently so don't bring anymore guys back for that lame reason. Insert skill into your lineup. The narrative changes when you win who the leaders are.

 

A team full of talent and skill is beating team leadership.

 

It be great to know what Lou's thought process is with the buyout. Is he even considering guys like Salvador or Zubrus. It's hard to think he is when he gave them both ridiculous 3-year contracts.

Edited June 18, 2014 by devilsrule33

[The 29th Pick]

I agree with this is Lou's off-season to shine as a GM

 

Good is not good enough when better is expected

 

let's see what he'll do

[DJ Eco]

I know he might be handcuffed in some respects, and I know rebuilding is never on the table for him, but after two crummy years (not all his fault), he is either seeing what's wrong with this team or not.

 

You said everything I wanted to say. I'd edit that last part to read:

 

After a few crummy years, we will either see if he's what's wrong for this team or not. Our offseasons have been a circus, he has a fresh slate and a bigger wallet than he ever had before, and he better make it work for us.

[Triumph]

Salvador over Fayne is a false equivalency - Fayne is a UFA.  He can go wherever he likes.

 

One of the issues this team has is that its two best forwards are also its two oldest players.  You can't play Jagr 21 minutes a game every night.  Elias was getting his ice time cut seriously in the 2nd half of the season.  That means having a 4th line that can take 9-10 minutes of ES time if necessary.  Still, spending a bunch of money on a 4th line is stupid.  If you can get CBGB back for $3M, it's probably worth it, but if they're getting $4M, that's a large mistake.

 

Re-signing Sislo is a good move for depth, he can definitely play a 4th line role.  I'm hoping they'll keep TImmins, he seems like he could play 4th line if need be.  People also forget that your top 12 forwards are not the only players who will play.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Triumph

[Derlique]

Can someone let me know how the cap/bonus overage works for this year? Capgeek says we went over last year between 2-3 million, so that amount can't be used this year? Also, does it factor into what we can do in the summer in terms of how much we can go over the cap before the start of the season?

[devilsrule33]

Salvador over Fayne is a false equivalency - Fayne is a UFA.  He can go wherever he likes.

 

One of the issues this team has is that its two best forwards are also its two oldest players.  You can't play Jagr 21 minutes a game every night.  Elias was getting his ice time cut seriously in the 2nd half of the season.  That means having a 4th line that can take 9-10 minutes of ES time if necessary.  Still, spending a bunch of money on a 4th line is stupid.  If you can get CBGB back for $3M, it's probably worth it, but if they're getting $4M, that's a large mistake.

 

Re-signing Sislo is a good move for depth, he can definitely play a 4th line role.  I'm hoping they'll keep TImmins, he seems like he could play 4th line if need be.  People also forget that your top 12 forwards are not the only players who will play.

 

You are right about Salvador over Fayne being a false equivalency, but it be easier for Lou to try and work out an offer with Fayne's agent if he new that signing him means they'll have to move Salvador. Fayne should be a priority, but I don't get the feeling he is right now. Usually, we get some quotes from the player and agent that lets us know how interested Lou was.

 

Fayne should try and get to free agency though.

[Daniel]

Salvador over Fayne is a false equivalency - Fayne is a UFA.  He can go wherever he likes.

 

 

 

It isn't really.  Fayne is not Zach Parise with at least five teams willing to throw no less than $60 million at him.  If Lou offered Fayne $9 million over three years right now (i.e. less than what he gave Salvador two years ago), there's a good chance he takes it.  No I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but all indications are that Lou is not even talking to Fayne.

 

By the same token, Lou could get rid of Salvador fairly easily, one way or another.  He doesn't have an NTC, and he could probably be a sixth defenseman on a handful of teams, especially if the Devils retain 1/3 of his salary.

 

In a way, not making an effort to keep Fayne would be ironic.  He's a defenseman that has proven to be a guy who could be a second pairing defenseman on roughly half of the teams in the league that Lou basically got out of nowhere (the fifth round of the draft), who would probably be getting less than most second pairing defensemen.  You would think that he's a prototypical Devils player, and a boost to Lou's ego. 

[Triumph]

It isn't really.  Fayne is not Zach Parise with at least five teams willing to throw no less than $60 million at him.  If Lou offered Fayne $9 million over three years right now (i.e. less than what he gave Salvador two years ago), there's a good chance he takes it.  No I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but all indications are that Lou is not even talking to Fayne.

 

By the same token, Lou could get rid of Salvador fairly easily, one way or another.  He doesn't have an NTC, and he could probably be a sixth defenseman on a handful of teams, especially if the Devils retain 1/3 of his salary.

 

In a way, not making an effort to keep Fayne would be ironic.  He's a defenseman that has proven to be a guy who could be a second pairing defenseman on roughly half of the teams in the league that Lou basically got out of nowhere (the fifth round of the draft), who would probably be getting less than most second pairing defensemen.  You would think that he's a prototypical Devils player, and a boost to Lou's ego. 

 

You've got 8 guys signed for next year already.  Then you've got Severson in the minors.  I like Fayne a lot, but unless they move one of the young D, I'm not sure he should be retained except at a very fair price point (I'm already assuming one of Salvador or Volchenkov will be the compliance buyout).  And so NJ shouldn't really be talking to Fayne's agent until this sort of deal happens, and I imagine it would happen around the draft.

[NJDevils1214]

I really hope the staff don't  plan on trying to keep the 4th line intact. It's time to let that go.

[Daniel]

You've got 8 guys signed for next year already.  Then you've got Severson in the minors.  I like Fayne a lot, but unless they move one of the young D, I'm not sure he should be retained except at a very fair price point (I'm already assuming one of Salvador or Volchenkov will be the compliance buyout).  And so NJ shouldn't really be talking to Fayne's agent until this sort of deal happens, and I imagine it would happen around the draft.

 

If the plan were to get rid of Volchenkov and Salvador, and keep Fayne, in 2013-14 the defense is: Zidlicky, Greene, Fayne, Merrill, Larsson, Gelinas, Harrold.  You also have Severson, Helegson and Scarlett who all seem like plausible call ups in the event of injuries, or you can make a Skoula/Havelid trade as a last resort.

 

The following year, when you would hope that Severson is ready to be a full-time NHLer, Greene, Zidlicky and Harrold are not under contract, albeit I assume and hope that Lou keeps Greene around.  If it looks like Gelinas is nothing more than a MAB clone, or Severson is Matt Corrente, you can re-up Zidlicky who seems like he'll keep signing one year deals as long as Lou wants to keep him around.

 

In two years, Santini might plausibly be ready to play the NHL (and that's doubtful), at which time we have no idea what the defense corps will look like.

 

EDIT:  And even if you kept one of Volechenkov/Salvador, you can always put Harrold on waivers.  There's a 50/50 chance that he makes it through.  That's a small price to pay to ensure that you keep a valuable player like Fayne.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Daniel

[CarpathianForest]

Kinda sucks that we have a solid D that is kind of cockblocking our ability to bring in a couple 1st or 2nd liners

[Triumph]

If the plan were to get rid of Volchenkov and Salvador, and keep Fayne, in 2013-14 the defense is: Zidlicky, Greene, Fayne, Merrill, Larsson, Gelinas, Harrold.  You also have Severson, Helegson and Scarlett who all seem like plausible call ups in the event of injuries, or you can make a Skoula/Havelid trade as a last resort.

 

The following year, when you would hope that Severson is ready to be a full-time NHLer, Greene, Zidlicky and Harrold are not under contract, albeit I assume and hope that Lou keeps Greene around.  If it looks like Gelinas is nothing more than a MAB clone, or Severson is Matt Corrente, you can re-up Zidlicky who seems like he'll keep signing one year deals as long as Lou wants to keep him around.

 

In two years, Santini might plausibly be ready to play the NHL (and that's doubtful), at which time we have no idea what the defense corps will look like.

 

EDIT:  And even if you kept one of Volechenkov/Salvador, you can always put Harrold on waivers.  There's a 50/50 chance that he makes it through.  That's a small price to pay to ensure that you keep a valuable player like Fayne.

 

I don't really think this is plausible.  I don't see them getting rid of both Volchenkov and Salvador - these players were on their top PK unit.  They're going to throw that over in one season?  I don't see it.  And that's the real point - Mark Fayne doesn't play a whole lot.  18 minutes a game for each of the last two seasons.  That's 3rd pairing minutes on a team with flat ice time distribution.  Now we know he played against better competition, but they don't play him a ton, and I don't see the sense in paying a lot for that.  Play goes forward when Fayne is on the ice, but I don't think his play-driving is worth that much - he doesn't have no offense, but he doesn't have a ton either.  

[Daniel]

I don't really think this is plausible.  I don't see them getting rid of both Volchenkov and Salvador - these players were on their top PK unit.  They're going to throw that over in one season?  I don't see it.  And that's the real point - Mark Fayne doesn't play a whole lot.  18 minutes a game for each of the last two seasons.  That's 3rd pairing minutes on a team with flat ice time distribution.  Now we know he played against better competition, but they don't play him a ton, and I don't see the sense in paying a lot for that.  Play goes forward when Fayne is on the ice, but I don't think his play-driving is worth that much - he doesn't have no offense, but he doesn't have a ton either.  

 

The question is how much more Fayne adds than Volchenkov and Salvador, both of whom you'd be paying more, and if you'd be comfortable giving Fayne more minutes than he's gotten, especially when you take into account that he would presumably make that up by getting PK time.  (It's also possible that Fayne's average icetime looks low because he was in DeBoer's doghouse for the first month or two of the season). 

 

I don't know the nuts and bolts, but it really seems like the Devils PK is close to being a set of interchangeable parts.  I mean, I guess Volchenkov adds a shot blocking element, but I don't see what Salvador brings that can't be taught to a more skilled player.   

[Derlique]

The question is how much more Fayne adds than Volchenkov and Salvador, both of whom you'd be paying more, and if you'd be comfortable giving Fayne more minutes than he's gotten, especially when you take into account that he would presumably make that up by getting PK time.  (It's also possible that Fayne's average icetime looks low because he was in DeBoer's doghouse for the first month or two of the season). 

 

I don't know the nuts and bolts, but it really seems like the Devils PK is close to being a set of interchangeable parts.  I mean, I guess Volchenkov adds a shot blocking element, but I don't see what Salvador brings that can't be taught to a more skilled player.   

As much as I/we rip Salvador and Volchenkov, they are very good on the PK.  There are certain instincts out there that can only be refined with experience.  By the way, I don't think Fayne coming back is contingent on a buyout.  He is a RH and I suspect both he and Larsson can't both exist on the roster.  If they think Larsson can replace what he does, than I doubt he is back

[CarpathianForest]

Although they are top pk'ers you have to take into account that Volch and Sal are one year older in the downside of their careers. That means they'll be much slower and injury prone. It's just a matter of time before they become completely useless. Sal scares the hell out of me in his own zone. His puck handling has become very shaky and reactionary.

[nessus]

I really hope the staff don't  plan on trying to keep the 4th line intact. It's time to let that go.

It really is. I was hopeful that they'd finally realize that now that it has been two seasons since CBGB was so productive.

 

I'd be happy with a fourth line of: Carter-Zubrus-Matteau

 

That would leave space in the top 9 for:

Jagr

Zajac

Elias

Henrique

Clowe

Brunner

Ryder

Ruutu

 

Then Lou could probably sign a UFA for that last spot, if that's his plan. Moving Ryder to a team with a system that he better fits would open up a spot for Josefson, too, who hopefully will be a regular this season.

[Triumph]

It really is. I was hopeful that they'd finally realize that now that it has been two seasons since CBGB was so productive.

 

I'd be happy with a fourth line of: Carter-Zubrus-Matteau

 

That would leave space in the top 9 for:

Jagr

Zajac

Elias

Henrique

Clowe

Brunner

Ryder

Ruutu

 

Then Lou could probably sign a UFA for that last spot, if that's his plan. Moving Ryder to a team with a system that he better fits would open up a spot for Josefson, too, who hopefully will be a regular this season.

 

It's been one season since Carter-Gionta-Bernier was productive.  They combined for 18 goals in 2012-13, which is perfectly acceptable for the roles they were playing.

[sokar]

why are the Devils worried about the fourth line when they need to address the first two lines

[thefiestygoat]

Really happy to see Sislo get re-signed. I hope he can break through and get a place on the 4th line.

[sokar]

https://twitter.com/capgeek/status/479077203674939394

 

Cap Geek is saying Devils are $2.25mil in bonus overages

Edited June 18, 2014 by sokar