Triumph Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I really didn't think that any of last night's goals were 'soft' - sometimes guys just make their shots, that was definitely what happened on goal 2 - but goal #3 is a perfect example of a goal that gets by Brodeur with some consistency that just doesn't necessarily go in on other goalies because Brodeur just has more holes than most goalies - he's not technically sound. He's beaten on tips way more often than Schneider as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) So I just saw Clowe's injury live..he looked bad on the bench. I'm hoping he just had the wind knocked out of him or something...but I'm scared we're going to hear that dreaded "C" word within the next few days. http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=591809 Edited April 1, 2014 by Devilsfan118 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I really didn't think that any of last night's goals were 'soft' - sometimes guys just make their shots, that was definitely what happened on goal 2 - but goal #3 is a perfect example of a goal that gets by Brodeur with some consistency that just doesn't necessarily go in on other goalies because Brodeur just has more holes than most goalies - he's not technically sound. He's beaten on tips way more often than Schneider as a result. This is spot on. All of last night's goals were good goals that any goaltender would have had a lot of difficulty stopping. However, because guys like Schneider, the Queen, etc. play a strict butterfly, they are more easily able to take away the bottom of the net and have less holes to contend with as a result. Brodeur always relied upon his quickness and athleticism to make up for some of his holes created by the hybrid style he plays but, as he has gotten older, his reactions have slowed making it easier for some of these pucks to get through him. Unfortunately, it's a part of every athletes' life, no matter how great you are. What drives me nuts coming on this Board is the complete overreaction/over-analyzation to everything Brodeur says and does these days by some on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msweet Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 It was clear from the Rock last night that Florida had little interest in playing defense against the Zajac-Jagr line. They had so much space and time. Zajoc could have had 2 more. The only thing Fla was interested in was smacking Elias around... no one seem to try to defend him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Too many excuses by so many for Brodeur. The guy has a .900 save percentage and I don't want to know what his GAA is. He is a bad goalie at this stage of his career, stop sugar coating it. He needed to make ONE of those saves and he didnt. That kind of game has happened in regularity over these past 3 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I wasn't ripping Marty really...more pointing out that pucks have a way of getting past him about 10% of the time now overall, and it's not a new trend. This dates back to the start of last season. Among the Marty hate garbage and the fervent Marty supporters this is a 'post of reason'. This is exactly true. Marty just doesn't stop certain shots anymore. Somehow shots just beat him. Even if the shots are well-placed or deflections, Marty lets those shots in much more frequently than goalies such as Cory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Among the Marty hate garbage and the fervent Marty supporters this is a 'post of reason'. This is exactly true. Marty just doesn't stop certain shots anymore. Somehow shots just beat him. Even if the shots are well-placed or deflections, Marty lets those shots in much more frequently than goalies such as Cory. Unfortunately, you get conditioned to feeling a certain way about a player based on recent track record. Right now, everytime I see the opposing team taking a shot on goal with Marty in net I'm nervous. I hate feeling that way, but I can't help it. Marty is 43rd in save% this season among qualifiers. He was 38th last season. His numbers since the beginning of 2013: 66 GP, 1577 SA, 1420 S, .9004 save% No axe to grind here...I don't love some of his comments lately, but all of that aside, the one thing that can't be disputed by anyone is that pucks now get past Marty at a rate that ranks near the bottom of the league, compared to his peers. Sure, you'll get the occasional save%-friendly game or even a string of them, but we know how the law of averages work...if you're having some .920 and .930 stretches, there's going to be .880 and .870 stretches that bring the number down to .900. Even when Marty had his .906, .910, .906 and .906 run from 1999-2002, those save%s were good for middle-of-the-pack back then, and as both fans and teammates noted, he had a knack for coming up with "big" saves (and raised his play considerably during the 2000 Cup run, though he was wildly inconsistent during the 2001 playoffs). He was NEVER near the bottom of the league like he is now, and what's sadder is that where he ranks doesn't feel like it's due to rotten luck or anything outside his control. It just feels like that's an accurate representation of what he now is compared to other NHL goalies in 2014. And more and more people are seeing it. Edited April 1, 2014 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, you get conditioned to feeling a certain way about a player based on recent track record. Right now, everytime I see the opposing team taking a shot on goal with Marty in net I'm nervous. I hate feeling that way, but I can't help it. Marty is 43rd in save% this season among qualifiers. He was 38th last season. His numbers since the beginning of 2013: 66 GP, 1577 SA, 1420 S, .9004 save% No axe to grind here...I don't love some of his comments lately, but all of that aside, the one thing that can't be disputed by anyone is that pucks now get past Marty at a rate that ranks near the bottom of the league, compared to his peers. Sure, you'll get the occasional save%-friendly game or even a string of them, but we know how the law of averages work...if you're having some .920 and .930 stretches, there's going to be .880 and .870 stretches that bring the number down to .900. Even when Marty had his .906, .910, .906 and .906 run from 1999-2002, those save%s were good for middle-of-the-pack back then, and as both fans and teammates noted, he had a knack for coming up with "big" saves (and raised his play considerably during the 2000 Cup run, though he was wildly inconsistent during the 2001 playoffs). He was NEVER near the bottom of the league like he is now, and what's sadder is that where he ranks doesn't feel like it's due to rotten luck or anything outside his control. It just feels like that's an accurate representation of what he now is compared to other NHL goalies in 2014. And more and more people are seeing it. It's a little bit of the shock factor that has made me uncomfortable with Marty in net the last few years. It's like, my mind anticipates the save and has already moved on to a rebound and a Devils breakout but then the puck goes in and time all of a sudden shoots back to the present and I'm like "WTF just happened?" If you have watched hockey for a while, your mind has grown to expect what should and should not be stopped. You don't need any stats to tell you that Marty is letting in bad goals, it's obvious to the senses. Edited April 1, 2014 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's a little bit of the shock factor that has made me uncomfortable with Marty in net the last few years. It's like, my mind anticipates the save and has already moved on to a rebound and a Devils breakout but then the puck goes in and time all of a sudden shoots back to the present and I'm like "WTF just happened?" If you have watched hockey for a while, your mind has grown to expect what should and should not be stopped. You don't need any stats to tell you that Marty is letting in bad goals, it's obvious to the senses. Agree about not needing the stats to see what's obvious, but the stats and rankings flesh out just HOW far he's fallen. And it happened pretty suddenly too...he needed terrific second halves in 2011 and 2012 just to rank 33rd overall in both seasons (.903 and .908). Before that: 2001 (.906) 20th 2002 (.906) 21st 2003 (.914) 14th 2004 (.917) 14th 2006 (.911) 11th 2007 (.922) 3rd 2008 (.920) 6th 2009 (.916) 16th (only played 31 games) 2010 (.916) 12th 2011 (.903) 33rd 2012 (.908) 33rd 2013 (.901) 38th 2014 (.900) 43rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) pissed that brodeur got the win lol Edited April 1, 2014 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Agree about not needing the stats to see what's obvious, but the stats and rankings flesh out just HOW far he's fallen. And it happened pretty suddenly too...he needed terrific second halves in 2011 and 2012 just to rank 33rd overall in both seasons (.903 and .908). Before that: 2001 (.906) 20th 2002 (.906) 21st 2003 (.914) 14th 2004 (.917) 14th 2006 (.911) 11th 2007 (.922) 3rd 2008 (.920) 6th 2009 (.916) 16th (only played 31 games) 2010 (.916) 12th 2011 (.903) 33rd 2012 (.908) 33rd 2013 (.901) 38th 2014 (.900) 43rd And to round out the point, his save pct. the last 4 years matches up exactly to when the dip in his play became perceivable. It's not just the save pct. though. Even in the 2 straight shutouts he had this season, I don't feel like he was anything special. He just never steals a game anymore. He has had a few really good games this year. Nothing spectacular. The Flyers game earlier this month and the Sharks game back towards the beginning of the year are the only games that really stand out in my mind. But I'm not the best at recalling stuff either. For sh!ts and giggles, here are Patrick Roy's last five years: 1998-1999 AVALANCHE 61 32 19 8 .917 2.29 (8th) 1999-2000 AVALANCHE 63 32 21 8 .914 2.28 (10th) 2000-2001 AVALANCHE 62 40 13 7 .913 2.21 (13th) 2001-2002 AVALANCHE 63 32 23 8 .925 1.94 (2nd) 2002-2003 AVALANCHE 63 35 15 13 .920 2.18 (7th) There's something to be said for retiring at 38 before the game gets the best of you. Then again, that Colorado team was a lot better than our present day Devils team. Their career save pcts. are about the same (.912 for Marty (and dropping) and .910 for Roy - though, Roy played in the 80's and early 90's when goals came like rain). Edited April 1, 2014 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) At least in 2010 and 2011, he was very good in each of those second halves. .920+ in both. Hard to really compare Roy's and Brodeur's save%s...Roy was putting up .900+ save% in the Live Puck Era, where good was considered to be anything in the .885-.895 range, and only a handful of goalies were around .900. Unfortunately, when people are debating Roy/Brodeur/Hasek, Marty will get the "hung on too long" tag...yet another reason why I hope he doesn't play again next season. People will also argue that Roy still had gas in the tank and could've easily played another year or two, though what caused Roy to retire when he did was apparently his propensity for being hard on himself and for taking losses very hard: http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_24922147/patrick-roy-notes-how-martin-brodeur-has-taken Hasek and Roy did finish their careers on better teams than this current Devils squad, FWIW. Edited April 1, 2014 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 At least in 2010 and 2011, he was very good in each of those second halves. .920+ in both. Hard to really compare Roy's and Brodeur's save%s...Roy was putting up .900+ save% in the Live Puck Era, where good was considered to be anything in the .885-.895 range, and only a handful of goalies were around .900. Unfortunately, when people are debating Roy/Brodeur/Hasek, Marty will get the "hung on too long" tag...yet another reason why I hope he doesn't play again next season. People will also argue that Roy still had gas in the tank and could've easily played another year or two, though what caused Roy to retire when he did was apparently his propensity for being hard on himself and for taking losses very hard: http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_24922147/patrick-roy-notes-how-martin-brodeur-has-taken Hasek and Roy did finish their careers on better teams than this current Devils squad, FWIW. Point is, I think those last 5 years are telling. His 2nd to last year he was 2nd in the league. This is spot on (from the link you posted): "No, it was different," Roy said. "My personality is a lot different than his. I'm not saying he is not taking the game seriously. He has probably a better approach than I had. After losses, I took it tough. I took it almost personal. Marty takes it more like, 'Hey, let's go back tomorrow.' I think that helps to have a longer career, without a doubt." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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