Would you trade Adam Larsson...

[mouse]

Triumph the coaches know that Lou made a mistake. Salvador is not the anchor of this defense. Assume Salvador is done as it appears who is his replacement certainly not Larsson they play a different game. I am not sure that Harrold can do the job. Increasing minutes of Severson and Merrill will accomplish something but rookies make mistakes. Gelinas is the defensive disaster we all ecpected. The three line offense is struggling against better teams. Signing Gomez doesn't help the defense but could help the offense but we must rid ourselves of Gionta who can't win a faceoff, doesn't have the reach for the PK and for the most part is lost on offense. Tootoo isn't a positive influence he takes to many penalties. Ruttu needs line mates. The fourth line is to be a line that allows the other 3 lines to get some rest but playing 6 or 7 minutes total won't make that happen. We are right back to last season Lou didn't get it and DeBoer can't see the problems of his player selections. The future doesn't look bright. I like Cammy with Elias and Havlet. I don't see a wing for Zajac and Jagr anywhere. Henrique with Ryder and Clowe isn't working. We will be on the bubble unless Lou makes some moves and DeBoer smarten up.

Let's calm down a little. They won 3 in a row, and looked pretty good doing it. They played 1 terrible period against the Caps, then lost to a good Sharks team. Are they perfect? No. But the d is going to get better as the kids mature, and the top 3 lines actually look pretty solid. If Clowe can stay healthy, that line is going to have some very good games (as they already have). 

[sundstrom]

A) That's beneath you

B) I don't agree that he's on the same level as Marty vis-a-vis the coaching staff.  He's not Marty, he's not a larger than life figure.  And I do agree with Tri they legit think he's the best option atm, they have a blind spot/mancrush with him.  If they didn't think that way but 'had' to play him he'd be getting Volch minutes/role

 

a) it is. i just feel like it takes 4x as long for the coaching staff to see things others do. they're biased just as we are, but a different way. what happens in the room carries much more weight with them than us.

 

b) nobody was on the same level as marty - it doesn't mean pdb doesn't have his favorites. obviously my hyperbolic rants are over the top. but if he's so obviously awful and still in the same position with this team in a month, we'll all be furious.

[SterioDesign]

a) it is. i just feel like it takes 4x as long for the coaching staff to see things others do. they're biased just as we are, but a different way. what happens in the room carries much more weight with them than us.

 

b) nobody was on the same level as marty - it doesn't mean pdb doesn't have his favorites. obviously my hyperbolic rants are over the top. but if he's so obviously awful and still in the same position with this team in a month, we'll all be furious.

 

There's really an obvious stubbornness from Lou and the coaches. We all know that. We've all seen it and it's repeating all the time. 

 

And it's not just us, everywhere you can find Devils fans opinions... any forums, twitter, fb, TG's blog... etc etc of course there's always crazy fans that goes over the top but the same stuff always come back with all those opinions.

 

The whole favouritism of the vets is not something we're making up. We're the oldest team in the league pretty much every year. Lou keep signing over the hill vets or trade for them to patch holes. it did paid off quite a few times but I'd like to see Lou go all out and get a YOUNG core forward.

 

If we'd trade Larsson you watch.... an old declining vet mid 30s with something to prove will be on its way to NJ. We might get a few average seasons out of him and we'll watch Larsson play on that team for years and year after our old guy is retired. 

 

I think we can agree that all this favouritism has hurt the team on some level at times and really didnt help some of our rookies to develop. But it's great to see guys like Merril and Severson playing so well that they pretty much can't be scratch for now. I'd still like to see Larsson taking Sal's spot. 

Edited October 20, 2014 by SterioDesign

[Devil Dan 56]

There's really an obvious stubbornness from Lou and the coaches. We all know that. We've all seen it and it's repeating all the time.

And it's not just us, everywhere you can find Devils fans opinions... any forums, twitter, fb, TG's blog... etc etc of course there's always crazy fans that goes over the top but the same stuff always come back with all those opinions.

The whole favouritism of the vets is not something we're making up. We're the oldest team in the league pretty much every year. Lou keep signing over the hill vets or trade for them to patch holes. it did paid off quite a few times but I'd like to see Lou go all out and get a YOUNG core forward.

If we'd trade Larsson you watch.... an old declining vet mid 30s with something to prove will be on its way to NJ. We might get a few average seasons out of him and we'll watch Larsson play on that team for years and year after our old guy is retired.

I think we can agree that all this favouritism has hurt the team on some level at times and really didnt help some of our rookies to develop. But it's great to see guys like Merril and Severson playing so well that they pretty much can't be scratch for now. I'd still like to see Larsson taking Sal's spot.

You mention all this favoritism, and in the same post mention Merrill and Severson who are getting plenty of playing time. Plus Gelinas who earned his way on. Plus Henrique who worked his way on to the team when Zajac went down a few years ago. When young guys prove they can take the minutes, they get playing time. Until they do, the coaches prefer to stick with their veterans. This isn't exclusive to Jersey.

[hystyk28]

As long as they ice Henrique with 3rd line minutes and give Zubrus top 6, this team is doomed.

[Triumph]

As long as they ice Henrique with 3rd line minutes and give Zubrus top 6, this team is doomed.

 

You mean as long as they give Zubrus the same amount of ice time as Henrique, the team is doomed?  

Henrique is not that good.  He has an accurate shot and he skates well, but he doesn't have the kind of awareness that leads to big offensive numbers.

[SterioDesign]

You mention all this favoritism, and in the same post mention Merrill and Severson who are getting plenty of playing time. Plus Gelinas who earned his way on. Plus Henrique who worked his way on to the team when Zajac went down a few years ago. When young guys prove they can take the minutes, they get playing time. Until they do, the coaches prefer to stick with their veterans. This isn't exclusive to Jersey.

 

2 exceptions of guys who played really well against god knows how many obvious examples of vets favouritism, can you honestly deny it ??? Merril and Severson have played really well, any youngsters making a few mistakes will have to deal with consequences while Salvador or the other vets can get away with murder every game. It was like that in Florida too, we heard about it even before Deboer coached his first game in NJ.

 

It's to the point where it's not even my opinion, it's simply a fact

Edited October 20, 2014 by SterioDesign

[CarpathianForest]

You mean as long as they give Zubrus the same amount of ice time as Henrique, the team is doomed?  

Henrique is not that good.  He has an accurate shot and he skates well, but he doesn't have the kind of awareness that leads to big offensive numbers.

 

 

I love it! Everyone is terrible!

[hystyk28]

Remove for me being an idiot.

Edited October 20, 2014 by hystyk28

[hystyk28]

You mean as long as they give Zubrus the same amount of ice time as Henrique, the team is doomed?  

Henrique is not that good.  He has an accurate shot and he skates well, but he doesn't have the kind of awareness that leads to big offensive numbers.

Yes, let's ice Zubrus in the top six. Henrique is as well rounded as any player we have and needs more minutes.

[Devil Dan 56]

2 exceptions of guys who played really well against god knows how many obvious examples of vets favouritism, can you honestly deny it ??? Merril and Severson have played really well, any youngsters making a few mistakes will have to deal with consequences while Salvador or the other vets can get away with murder every game. It was like that in Florida too, we heard about it even before Deboer coached his first game in NJ.

It's to the point where it's not even my opinion, it's simply a fact

Didn't they just buy out Volchenkov and let Fayne walk so the younger players could get playing time? Aren't 3 of the 6 defensemen these young players that you claim aren't getting a chance? And if one of them gets scratched, isn't the next person in line another 21 year old who played over 60 games his rookie year?

And oh god forbid a younger player might face consequences!! Why, every kid coming in should be handed a starting spot in the NHL. It works so well in Edmonton every year.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Devil Dan 56

[Triumph]

2 exceptions of guys who played really well against god knows how many obvious examples of vets favouritism, can you honestly deny it ??? Merril and Severson have played really well, any youngsters making a few mistakes will have to deal with consequences while Salvador or the other vets can get away with murder every game. It was like that in Florida too, we heard about it even before Deboer coached his first game in NJ.

 

It's to the point where it's not even my opinion, it's simply a fact

 

I don't think the Devils are different in this respect than any other team in the league.  Here's what we do know:

 

The Devils haven't made a significant trade involving young players since they traded for Ilya Kovalchuk.  None of the young players traded in that deal are playing in the NHL.  The Devils' draft picks currently playing in the NHL who are not playing for NJ are:  Matt Halischuk, Zach Parise, Mark Fayne, Paul Martin, Deryk Engelland, Brian Gionta, Willie Mitchell.  4 left via free agency, one was never signed by the team, and 2 were traded.

 

They also haven't drafted very well (nor have they had that many draft picks) over the last 10 years.  

 

So that's why the team is that old.  The team's players have either gotten older or retired or left via free agency and the team was left to patch holes that way.  Of the forwards currently on the roster, the Devils have traded for one guy (Ruutu), they have drafted 4 others (Elias, Henrique, Zajac, Josefson), and they signed one via undrafted free agency (S. Gionta).  The rest were guys playing somewhere else that they signed as UFAs - and UFAs, barring special cases, are always going to be 27 or older.  I'm sure the Devils would've loved it if Mattias Tedenby had been a good player, but he wasn't - they were left to fill that hole another way.

[ATLL765]

I'd really like to see Henrique at LW with Elias and Havlat, but then I don't know who you put in as the 3C.

[BostonNala370]

Let's calm down a little. They won 3 in a row, and looked pretty good doing it. They played 1 terrible period against the Caps, then lost to a good Sharks team. Are they perfect? No. But the d is going to get better as the kids mature, and the top 3 lines actually look pretty solid. If Clowe can stay healthy, that line is going to have some very good games (as they already have).

I guess DeBoer has learned something but he can't let go to Mr Waste S. Gionta.

[mouse]

I guess DeBoer has learned something but he can't let go to Mr Waste S. Gionta.

We've beaten that horse into the ground, but since Carter's gone, who are you gonna ice as the 4th line center? Josefson has shown too many times that if he's going to be worth anything (and he may not be), he needs decent linemates. Short of moving Zubs back to center and dropping him to the 4th line, DeBo's hands are tied. I admit that's partially because of his and Lou's love for Gio, but at this point, he's their guy.

[BostonNala370]

We've beaten that horse into the ground, but since Carter's gone, who are you gonna ice as the 4th line center? Josefson has shown too many times that if he's going to be worth anything (and he may not be), he needs decent linemates. Short of moving Zubs back to center and dropping him to the 4th line, DeBo's hands are tied. I admit that's partially because of his and Lou's love for Gio, but at this point, he's their guy.

As a true Devils fan you can never beat to death a bad player. As for Josefson he won't be worse than Gionta. Tootoo is not an effective lineman for either. Zubrus is not a first or second line wing at this point he is 4th line material. Try Brunner Josefson Zubrus or substitute Ruutu for Brunner.

We also have Gomez waiting.

So there are choices other than Mr Waste. There are choices within this collection of players.

We need a wing for the Zajac/Jagr line. Hello Lou.

[SterioDesign]

Didn't they just buy out Volchenkov and let Fayne walk so the younger players could get playing time? Aren't 3 of the 6 defensemen these young players that you claim aren't getting a chance? And if one of them gets scratched, isn't the next person in line another 21 year old who played over 60 games his rookie year?

And oh god forbid a younger player might face consequences!! Why, every kid coming in should be handed a starting spot in the NHL. It works so well in Edmonton every year.

 

dude i went back and forth trying to be neutral with my post trying to put everything into consideration, that's why i stated different situations. If you want to be in total denial and ignore some stuff and just focus on what can go against my opinion, go right ahead. Free country

[Devil Dan 56]

dude i went back and forth trying to be neutral with my post trying to put everything into consideration, that's why i stated different situations. If you want to be in total denial and ignore some stuff and just focus on what can go against my opinion, go right ahead. Free country

 

Who is in denial? Your pattern is always the same. You bring up a point, someone disagrees, and then you say they don't get it, or they are in denial. You abandon the actual hockey discussion. Maybe, if people never get what you're trying to say, it's you. No one is saying Sal isn't slow, just that it's not uncommon or some evil plot that a lot of coaches tend to trust their veterans and make their rookies earn playing time. 

 

Now for the actual hockey discussion... You totally ignored what I pointed out, which is that half the defensemen are 23 or younger. That looks like young guys getting a chance. But when you only have 4 guys who can kill penalties (Greene, Salvador, Merrill, Severson), and 3 of them can also work the power play (Greene, Severson, Merrill), you have to rely on the 4th to kill penalties. Zid or Gelinas won't be on the PK. 

 

Here is the average time on ice this season.... Greene (22:26), Salvador (20:45), Zidlicky (20:41), Merrill (20:25), Severson (19:52), Gelinas (15:52). 

 

Greene is getting the most, as he should be. Sal is too high, but Merrill is right behind him. As the year does on, we should notice an increase for Merrill and Severson. Larsson playing could also change the dynamic. 

 

The issue is here... Average short handed time on ice per game... Salvador (6:05), Greene (5:23), Merril (2:39), Severson (1:27). As the coaching staff trusts the younger players more and accepts that Sal is done, these numbers will change. If we look at these numbers in 4 - 6 weeks there should hopefully be a noticeable difference. 

 

Also, while I was looking up the numbers, here are the average PP mins... Zidlicky (3:33), Severson (3:10), Gelinas (2:39), Merrill (2:12), Greene (0:39), Salvador (0:00). Same thing here. Severson, Gelinas, and Merrill's number should creep up. 

[SterioDesign]

Who is in denial? Your pattern is always the same. You bring up a point, someone disagrees, and then you say they don't get it, or they are in denial. You abandon the actual hockey discussion. Maybe, if people never get what you're trying to say, it's you. No one is saying Sal isn't slow, just that it's not uncommon or some evil plot that a lot of coaches tend to trust their veterans and make their rookies earn playing time.

Now for the actual hockey discussion... You totally ignored what I pointed out, which is that half the defensemen are 23 or younger. That looks like young guys getting a chance. But when you only have 4 guys who can kill penalties (Greene, Salvador, Merrill, Severson), and 3 of them can also work the power play (Greene, Severson, Merrill), you have to rely on the 4th to kill penalties. Zid or Gelinas won't be on the PK.

Here is the average time on ice this season.... Greene (22:26), Salvador (20:45), Zidlicky (20:41), Merrill (20:25), Severson (19:52), Gelinas (15:52).

Greene is getting the most, as he should be. Sal is too high, but Merrill is right behind him. As the year does on, we should notice an increase for Merrill and Severson. Larsson playing could also change the dynamic.

The issue is here... Average short handed time on ice per game... Salvador (6:05), Greene (5:23), Merril (2:39), Severson (1:27). As the coaching staff trusts the younger players more and accepts that Sal is done, these numbers will change. If we look at these numbers in 4 - 6 weeks there should hopefully be a noticeable difference.

Also, while I was looking up the numbers, here are the average PP mins... Zidlicky (3:33), Severson (3:10), Gelinas (2:39), Merrill (2:12), Greene (0:39), Salvador (0:00). Same thing here. Severson, Gelinas, and Merrill's number should creep up.

What happened tnight is EXACTLY what i was saying. Vets can get away with MURDER and never see a bit of consequences.

Zids made the biggest mistake of the game and didnt skip a beat. Larsson would have done that? Oh lord, he'd be in deboer's car trunk on its way to mexico's borders.

What i see is deboer putting way too much in guys that will be gone soon and who are barely doing a better job than the kids if anything. We have a good foundation of kids on the D but the coaching staff is really playing with the "relationship" there. No one knows for sure if reports from those guys being unhappy or asking for trade is real or not but its certainly not impossible. If youre not happy youre not gonna be successful in your role.

But seeing pete's favs on the ice in OT or with 1 minute left or getting an offensive zone start? Like wtf. All im trying to say is dont try to pretend im making this up or something. The favoritism is real and its hurting the team in many ways

Edited October 22, 2014 by SterioDesign

[TheRedStorm]

What happened tnight is EXACTLY what i was saying. Vets can get away with MURDER and never see a sign of consequences.

Zids made the biggest mistake of the game and didnt skip a beat. Larsson would have done that? Oh lord, he'd be in deboer's car trunk on its way to mexico's borders.

What i see is deboer putting when too much in guys that will be gone soon and who are barely doing a better job than the kids if anything. We have a good foundation of kids on the D but the coaching staff is really playing with the "relationship" there. No one knows for sure if reports from those guys being unhappy or asking for trade is real or not but its certainly not impossible. If youre not happy youre not gonna be successful in your role.

But seeing pete's favs on the ice in OT or with 1 minute left or getting an offensive zone start? Like wtf. All im trying to say is dont try to pretend im making this up or something. The favoritism is real and its hurting the team in many ways

 

Every coach on every team has favorites and leans on them more then he should, sometimes at the expense of the team and roster. Lemaire and Bobby Carpenter ring a bell? Hell, arguably, Lemaire lost a playoff series with that. Pete, rightfully or wrongfully, believes in the players he assigns responsibilities too like any other coach. If you bring another coach in here, he's going to do the same thing either with the same players or others. It's a tricky slope. Personally, i think if you take Pete's Pets away he'll have no choice right Lou?

Edited October 22, 2014 by TheRedStorm

[2ELIAS6]

i agree with the way that the coaching staff handles the the young players and the vets differently is not right at all.. everyone should be treated the same on this team..if a vet player makes a costly mistake as what zid did tonight maybe he should sit (even though i wouldnt sit a player for one mistake like that enless it was happening over and over) and we all know that he will not sit for that but as said if it was one of the younger guys he would be out in a second...this i just cannot stand anymore and im surprised he gets away with this.

[Devil Dan 56]

What happened tnight is EXACTLY what i was saying. Vets can get away with MURDER and never see a bit of consequences.

Zids made the biggest mistake of the game and didnt skip a beat. Larsson would have done that? Oh lord, he'd be in deboer's car trunk on its way to mexico's borders.

What i see is deboer putting way too much in guys that will be gone soon and who are barely doing a better job than the kids if anything. We have a good foundation of kids on the D but the coaching staff is really playing with the "relationship" there. No one knows for sure if reports from those guys being unhappy or asking for trade is real or not but its certainly not impossible. If youre not happy youre not gonna be successful in your role.

But seeing pete's favs on the ice in OT or with 1 minute left or getting an offensive zone start? Like wtf. All im trying to say is dont try to pretend im making this up or something. The favoritism is real and its hurting the team in many ways

 

Again, you focus on small instances instead of big picture. Pete trusts his veterans more, like most coaches do. He's not going to suddenly flip everything and play all rookies. It's going to be gradual. I pointed out the playing time. If you look at the last night, Severson played more than Sal, which is a good start. Merrill also got some of Sal's PK time. Now, I don't get Pete's problem with Larsson, but Sal's time is definitely changing. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by Devil Dan 56

[SterioDesign]

Every coach on every team has favorites and leans on them more then he should, sometimes at the expense of the team and roster. Lemaire and Bobby Carpenter ring a bell? Hell, arguably, Lemaire lost a playoff series with that. Pete, rightfully or wrongfully, believes in the players he assigns responsibilities too like any other coach. If you bring another coach in here, he's going to do the same thing either with the same players or others. It's a tricky slope. Personally, i think if you take Pete's Pets away he'll have no choice right Lou?

Its find to have favorites if they can do the job or have the skills or wtv to do it. Deboer's decision doesnt make any sense whatsoever.

[Triumph]

Larsson turned the puck over that led to that big Nash rush where he ran over Schneider and he sat after that.  That turnover was not as bad as Zidlicky's but it was bad - Zidlicky's easily could've ended up being harmless, Larsson's could've ended up in the net.

[CarpathianForest]

Larsson turned the puck over that led to that big Nash rush where he ran over Schneider and he sat after that.  That turnover was not as bad as Zidlicky's but it was bad - Zidlicky's easily could've ended up being harmless, Larsson's could've ended up in the net.

 

Zidlicky also has a bad habit of trying to play cute in his own end hence the Nash goal.