RunninWithTheDevil Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 22 hours ago, MB3 said: Taking Severson? Why should the Devils be in the business of trading one of their best defenseman? WOW idk how my brain typed "Severson" but I meant "Carrick" as the original tweet suggested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: it happened we literally got Clowe that way. The Sharks were very well in the playoffs but they knew he wasnt coming back so they traded him to us. That's one example off the top of my head We literally didn’t, we signed him as a free agent. But assuming that you are talking about when the Rangers traded for him… Come on, are you seriously comparing trading Clowe, already in obvious decline due to head injuries and having played 28 games between October and April, to trading Panarin and Bobrovsky? That’s an awful, inaccurate example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: And on a side note, I'm absolutely interested in dealing for Jones, provided the Devils could sign him long-term. But I'd check out Hamilton first, as he'll only cost money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, SterioDesign said: And i just don't think teams let their top 2 players at the same time go into their last contract season without an extension where you lose all leverage and can lose them for nothing. I'll ask you again. Would you want Hughes, Hischier, Smith, Sharangovich and all those guys go in their last season without a contract in their prime years? On top of that ,say that you would, would you refuse to talk contract with them through the season and just wait after the season, so that they are literally weeks away from free agency? Would you do that if you were the GM? Did Columbus refuse to talk contract with Panarin or Bobrovsky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: We literally didn’t, we signed him as a free agent. But assuming that you are talking about when the Rangers traded for him… Come on, are you seriously comparing trading Clowe, already in obvious decline due to head injuries and having played 28 games between October and April, to trading Panarin and Bobrovsky? That’s an awful, inaccurate example. oh sh!t you're right, they traded Clowe to the rangers and then we signed him in the summer Well doesn't change my point that they were in the playoffs and traded one of their UFA. And it also doesnt happen often cause most GMs make sure to lock up their top players before their last season, its all part of my point. Too risky for nothing to wait Edited June 16, 2021 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said: Did Columbus refuse to talk contract with Panarin or Bobrovsky? They did talk and try to sign Panarin but figured it wouldn't happen and Bob straight up told them he wasn't re-signing. One of the 2 fine you gamble, but if you know you're losing 2 of those players for sure and that you're not even in the playoffs at the deadline, i'd personally cut my losses and get assets or players i can build around and keep building vs taking such a huge step back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: oh sh!t you're right, they traded Clowe to the rangers and then we signed him in the summer Well doesn't change my point that they were in the playoffs and traded one of their UFA But that’s not what we’re talking about. There is no comparison between a UFA with a head injury who can barely play and your best forward/starting goalie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 The Devils were the 6 seed and the Kings were the 8 seed in 2012. Kings were the last seed in their division in 2014. The Oilers were the 8 seed in 2006 when they made it to the cup final. I'm sure there are other long shots like this that I'm not looking up, but yeah, seems like anything can happen if you get hot at the right time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: We literally didn’t, we signed him as a free agent. But assuming that you are talking about when the Rangers traded for him… Come on, are you seriously comparing trading Clowe, already in obvious decline due to head injuries and having played 28 games between October and April, to trading Panarin and Bobrovsky? That’s an awful, inaccurate example. To be fair, that was only a 48-game season (2013)...that season started in January. But yeah, Clowe scored exactly ZERO goals in his 28 GP played with the Sharks that year...guess now all UFAs-to-be are created equal? You are right, not a good example at all. If anything, I'm guessing maybe the Rangers were a little desperate at the time? They gave up a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th-rounder for Clowe...that's a pretty decent haul, given his issues...sounds like an offer SJ would've been crazy to refuse. Edited June 16, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 minute ago, SterioDesign said: They did talk and try to sign Panarin but figured it wouldn't happen and Bob straight up told them he wasn't re-signing. One of the 2 fine you gamble, but if you know you're losing 2 of those players for sure and that you're not even in the playoffs at the deadline, i'd personally cut my losses and get assets or players i can build around and keep building vs taking such a huge step back I think if they weren't so desperate for playoff success they probably would have made a trade with at least one of those guys. Twenty years without a playoff series win, I think they panicked a bit and tried to go for it before the window closed. And their playoff run was basically Homer jumping Springfield Gorge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: I think if they weren't so desperate for playoff success they probably would have made a trade with at least one of those guys. Twenty years without a playoff series win, I think they panicked a bit and tried to go for it before the window closed. And their playoff run was basically Homer jumping Springfield Gorge. That, and I think it's easy to assume that you're going to get these dynamic young pieces to build around when you deal these guys off. These top-end UFAs-to-be with only one year left on their deals don't always fetch that great of a return (of course if you can get the would-be UFA to sign an extension with his new team, it can be a different story). Edited June 16, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: I think if they weren't so desperate for playoff success they probably would have made a trade with at least one of those guys. Twenty years without a playoff series win, I think they panicked a bit and tried to go for it before the window closed. And their playoff run was basically Homer jumping Springfield Gorge. Again, i said like 4 times today already. I understand why they did it. But it was still a mistake and they got the short end of it as it was very easy to predict. Guaranteed they are a better team today if they had wtv they could have got for a full season of Bob and Panarin which were both on top of the world today. And this is not hindsight 20/20, i said the same thing before the playoffs that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: We literally didn’t, we signed him as a free agent. But assuming that you are talking about when the Rangers traded for him… Come on, are you seriously comparing trading Clowe, already in obvious decline due to head injuries and having played 28 games between October and April, to trading Panarin and Bobrovsky? That’s an awful, inaccurate example. Well then would Shero making sure to lock up Crosby and Malking before their last season. Then giving an ultimatum to Staal then trading him before his last season a better example? Or basically every team in the league who made a deep run with their top players locked up? I'll put the research on you now. Who's the last team who won the cup with their top 2 players not locked up? Edited June 16, 2021 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: The funny thing is if it happens, we'll do what we always do when the Devils make a deal like this..."Hey, the guy was an 8th-overall pick in his draft...only cost him a 3rd-rounder to get him, and who knows if whoever the Devils drafts with that 3rd-rounder ever even makes it to the NHL...maybe a change of scenery?" Basically look for silver linings wherever they may lie...I just don't want to do that right now. Get me a guy (even if it's a seemingly "boring" stay-at-home type but someone that I know is good at what he does and will help make the team better) that I KNOW is going to come in and do whatever job is expected of him. Not some enigma who MAY figure it out. And more reason why it is likely Devils would trade for Risto. The trade is the Devil-ish type trade they have been making for the past handful of years. More of the picks and parts for other team's scraps/projects/disgruntled players and hoping they work out. They are never difference makers but big enough names to make the fans excited, sell more tickets, and management/ownership can claim they did something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: Well then would Shero making sure to lock up Crosby and Malking before their last season. Then giving an ultimatum to Staal then trading him before his last season a better example? Or basically every team in the league who made a deep run with their top players locked up? I'll put the research on you now. Who's the last team who won the cup with their top 2 players not locked up? That’s still not the same thing. We’re talking about something very specific. Trading your best players before a playoff run. The best example you came up with was Ryan Clowe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: That’s still not the same thing. We’re talking about something very specific. Trading your best players before a playoff run. The best example you came up with was Ryan Clowe. There's not that many examples cause GMs usually take care of business and get them locked up before the season. That's the whole point. You also have a lot more chance to keep and re-sign a guy getting things rolling before the season and when things are good than when a guy is weeks away and tempted by free agency or when he has a sour taste from how the season ended. And my best example is Jordan Staal off the top of my head, not ryan clowe There's more. The Blues trading Shattenkirk when they were well in the playoffs Edited June 16, 2021 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: And more reason why it is likely Devils would trade for Risto. The trade is the Devil-ish type trade they have been making for the past handful of years. More of the picks and parts for other team's scraps/projects/disgruntled players and hoping they work out. They are never difference makers but big enough names to make the fans excited, sell more tickets, and management/ownership can claim they did something. I'm not convinced that this is going to be the MO forever...I understood it when there was not much of a core. But I agree fully, no more of this, especially in Risto's case, since it sure seems like he's completely the wrong guy to take a flyer on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: There's not that many examples cause GMs usually take care of business and get them locked up before the season. That's the whole point. You also have a lot more chance to keep and re-sign a guy getting things rolling before the season and when things are good than when a guy is weeks away and tempted by free agency or when he has a sour taste from how the season ended. And my best example is Jordan Staal off the top of my head, not ryan clowe Again, you are assuming that you CAN re-sign the guy in question, and I already agreed it’s a terrible idea to let it get to that point. Staal is a better example, still does not compare to Panarin alone, let alone Panarin AND Bobrovsky. Edited June 16, 2021 by mfitz804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Again, you are assuming that you CAN re-sign the guy in question, and I already agreed it’s a terrible idea to let it get to that point. i also forgot Tampa who traded St-Louis, their CAPTAIN to the Rangers when they were both in the playoffs. Plus Shattenkirk from st-louis. It's happening. Edited June 16, 2021 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: i also forgot Tampa who traded St-Louis, their CAPTAIN to the Rangers when they were both in the playoffs. One small detail...St Louis demanded to be traded: Martin St. Louis traded to New York Rangers from Tampa Bay Lightning (espn.com) St. Louis requested a trade out of Tampa Bay after he was initially snubbed by general manager Steve Yzerman -- also the GM of Team Canada -- when his boss named the 2014 Olympic squad. St. Louis later was added as an injury replacement for the Lightning's Steven Stamkos and won a gold medal with Team Canada, but that apparently did not change the situation. When asked if St. Louis had a hand in making the trade happen, Yzerman told reporters on Wednesday afternoon the two had "multiple" discussions about St. Louis' future with the franchise. However, Yzerman mostly deferred to St. Louis saying, "I'm not going to stand here and judge him." St. Louis, who was named Tampa Bay's captain prior to this season, had a no-trade clause in his contract and reportedly told Yzerman that New York was his preferred destination. Yzerman acknowledged St. Louis' trade request in a written statement Wednesday. "We'd like to thank Marty for everything he has done on and off the ice during his outstanding 13-year career in Tampa Bay," Yzerman said in the statement. "He has been one of the greatest players in the organization's history, but in the end we honored his request today. We wish him and his family the best of luck as he continues his career in New York." St. Louis issued an open thank you letter to Lightning fans, in which he declined to explain his reasons for wanting a trade. "Today is a bittersweet day for me," he wrote. "I am sad that this chapter of my career is over. I have had 14 wonderful years in Tampa and have cherished being a member of the Tampa Bay Lightning. "In the end this is a decision for my family. I respect the fact that many of you do not agree with my decision and are angry with it. All I really can say is that I am sorry and I am very appreciative of the support you have shown me through the years." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) Correct. My point remains: you shouldn’t let it get to that point. If you do, you don’t make those kind of trades if you are playoff bound or close. Trading Staal before the season, or trading a guy who demands to be traded, is not the same. Edited June 16, 2021 by mfitz804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: One small detail...St Louis demanded to be traded: Martin St. Louis traded to New York Rangers from Tampa Bay Lightning (espn.com) St. Louis requested a trade out of Tampa Bay after he was initially snubbed by general manager Steve Yzerman -- also the GM of Team Canada -- when his boss named the 2014 Olympic squad. St. Louis later was added as an injury replacement for the Lightning's Steven Stamkos and won a gold medal with Team Canada, but that apparently did not change the situation. When asked if St. Louis had a hand in making the trade happen, Yzerman told reporters on Wednesday afternoon the two had "multiple" discussions about St. Louis' future with the franchise. However, Yzerman mostly deferred to St. Louis saying, "I'm not going to stand here and judge him." St. Louis, who was named Tampa Bay's captain prior to this season, had a no-trade clause in his contract and reportedly told Yzerman that New York was his preferred destination. Yzerman acknowledged St. Louis' trade request in a written statement Wednesday. "We'd like to thank Marty for everything he has done on and off the ice during his outstanding 13-year career in Tampa Bay," Yzerman said in the statement. "He has been one of the greatest players in the organization's history, but in the end we honored his request today. We wish him and his family the best of luck as he continues his career in New York." St. Louis issued an open thank you letter to Lightning fans, in which he declined to explain his reasons for wanting a trade. "Today is a bittersweet day for me," he wrote. "I am sad that this chapter of my career is over. I have had 14 wonderful years in Tampa and have cherished being a member of the Tampa Bay Lightning. "In the end this is a decision for my family. I respect the fact that many of you do not agree with my decision and are angry with it. All I really can say is that I am sorry and I am very appreciative of the support you have shown me through the years." 12 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Correct. My point remains: you shouldn’t let it get to that point. If you do, you don’t make those kind of trades if you are playoff bound or close. Trading Staal before the season, or trading a guy who demands to be traded, is not the same. Well i think every situation is different and you have to assess it fully no matter what. I don't believe in just sticking to a script and fancy taglines like "so you're saying there's a chance". Why is Staal different? He's the perfect example of a GM who took full control of a situation. That's precisely what ive been preaching. Then what about Shattenkirk? My WHOLE point is like you said, as a GM you have to put yourself in the best possible position to make the best decision and keep maximum leverage. We can talk about semantics and specifics about each individual cases. Point remain that as a GM it's your job to do that and make those decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunninWithTheDevil Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Gallant to Blueskirts officially announced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: Then what about Shattenkirk? I’m not even sure he was their best defenseman, or their second best, but he certainly wasn’t their best player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: I’m not even sure he was their best defenseman, or their second best, but he certainly wasn’t their best player. Well like i said, it usually doesnt happen that GM let their best player go in their last season unsigned. So i won't be able to find tons of examples here. It doesnt negate my whole point either, it's just confirming it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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