NHL 2021 Draft Lottery Live Watch Thread, 6/2 7PM

[RunninWithTheDevil]

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

I literally haven't seen anyone not understanding that. Who are you referring to?

People who start getting upset that the Devils aren't losing enough down the stretch, and jeopardizing their lottery chances...there was a lot of this in 2019 (Devils finished up on a little 4-2-1 "burst" to end their season, and wound up finishing ahead of the Kings).  There are some who do act as though getting the best odds to land the #1 overall pick needs to take precedence over everything else (including young kids getting a shot and then figuring out how to win a little).

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

It’s not a guarantee, you get a better chance. 3 less points and we would have approximately a 2% better chance, and 9 points less for a 6.5% better chance. 

I get the tanking argument, the problem is 1) we already tanked by trading away everyone and playing AHL players, and 2) doing any more would be a complete farce and we would lose all credibility as an organization. 

I like a bigger chance to get #1. But I won’t advocate losing on purpose to do it. 

No I know worse record = better chance, but like I said, some do act as though having the worst record almost guarantees that it will pan out in their team's favor...the odds aren't SO stacked for the worst team that it goes according to that plan.

Agree with the bolded.  Devils clearly approached the deadline the way an out-of-contention seller should...sold what they could for likely-to-depart assets, and got pieces for later.  After a lot of losing (a 1-11-3 absolute dirge), they manage to win 5 out of their last 8.  Like you alluded to, I would never want to see the Devils start sitting kids who are figuring things out for guys who are clearly put into lineup because they'll give the Devils a better chance to lose, thereby improving their draft odds.  The end of the season was actually kind of fun, in a season that had so little of it.

[SterioDesign]

I personally don't really see what we did this year as "tanking" like say the Pens did back in the day.

We traded away vets that were not getting it done and not part of our future plans for future assets, we played a lot of young guys to see what they had so they can gain some value potentially and give them experience. That's just good asset management.

I also don't remember seeing anyone actively rooting for us to tank, we legit did the best we could do with what we had. And there was just many fans saying that getting upset at losses was understandable but that in the end it was what was best for the team potentially when you look at it from a "putting yourself in the best possible position to make the best decision based on what's in front of you and what assets you have". It doesn't guarantee anything as a trade might not pan out or a player projected further down might pan out more long term. Still a fact that being okay with being in the best possible position is not a bad position to take for many reasons.

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

I personally don't really see what we did this year as "tanking" like say the Pens did back in the day.

We traded away vets that were not getting it done and not part of our future plans for future assets, we played a lot of young guys to see what they had so they can gain some value potentially and give them experience. That's just good asset management.

I also don't remember seeing anyone actively rooting for us to tank, we legit did the best we could do with what we had. And there was just many fans saying that getting upset at losses was understandable but that in the end it was what was best for the team potentially when you look at it from a "putting yourself in the best possible position to make the best decision based on what's in front of you and what assets you have". It doesn't guarantee anything as a trade might not pan out or a player projected further down might pan out more long term. Still a fact that being okay with being in the best possible position is not a bad position to take for many reasons.

I think your advocating for the advantages of losing games comes off like you are suggesting they should be throwing games. Like nobody should be happy with winning games because it gives us a worse draft position. 

I’m a fan, personally I like when our team wins. Call me crazy. 

[SterioDesign]

Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

People who start getting upset that the Devils aren't losing enough down the stretch, and jeopardizing their lottery chances...there was a lot of this in 2019 (Devils finished up on a little 4-2-1 "burst" to end their season, and wound up finishing ahead of the Kings).  There are some who do act as though getting the best odds to land the #1 overall pick needs to take precedence over everything else (including young kids getting a shot and then figuring out how to win a little).

No I know worse record = better chance, but like I said, some do act as though having the worst record almost guarantees that it will pan out in their team's favor...the odds aren't SO stacked for the worst team that it goes according to that plan.

Agree with the bolded.  Devils clearly approached the deadline the way an out-of-contention seller should...sold what they could for likely-to-depart assets, and got pieces for later.  After a lot of losing (a 1-11-3 absolute dirge), they manage to win 5 out of their last 8.  Like you alluded to, I would never want to see the Devils start sitting kids who are figuring things out for guys who are clearly put into lineup because they'll give the Devils a better chance to lose, thereby improving their draft odds.  The end of the season was actually kind of fun, in a season that had so little of it.

About this part, from what i can remember or conversations that i was a part of. It often started with people losing their sh!t that the team was losing, trying to put a positive twist on it that at least it was technically what was "best" for the team potentially. and its true. It's always a practical vs emotional conversation so of course its a mess lol

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I think your advocating for the advantages of losing games comes off like you are suggesting they should be throwing games. Like nobody should be happy with winning games because it gives us a worse draft position. 

I’m a fan, personally I like when our team wins. Call me crazy. 

No like i mentioned above. It was never about telling people they shouldnt be happy. It was about telling the doom and gloom fans about to jump off a bridge or wanting the whole team walking directly into hitler ovens that yeah its frustrating but that its possible to focus on the positives. My stance the whole season was. I want the kids to show some premise and take a step forward, see what potential we have but win totals or points is absolutely irrelevant as we're rebuilding and not contending anyway, so when its all said and done it's ideal.

And that's exactly what we got. We've had many young rookie who showed amazing things. We s how the team never giving up. We just came out short by one goal SO many times. Plus we were missing our captain the whole season and got a covid outbreak. Its easy to see that we're in a way better position than our standing is showing. Just have the team produce slightly more next year and do something system wise so that our Dmen stop leaving guys like Crosby wide open for a tap in goal like it happened 178 times this season and we're golden. 

 

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

I’m a fan, personally I like when our team wins. Call me crazy. 

As for this. 

I'm a fan, personally I want what's best for the team in the long run and not what's best for me and my feelings in this moment. Call me crazy. 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

As for this. 

I'm a fan, personally I want what's best for the team in the long run and not what's best for me and my feelings in this moment. Call me crazy. 

You’re crazy.

what you are talking about isn’t necessarily even better for the team in the long run, it’s a 2% to 6% increase in the chance for improvement, And that only need something if you pick the right guy anyway, which is a total crapshoot and a lot of circumstances. 

Like I said, and like most of us say, we like when the team wins. We understand in seasons like this, if they lose, so be it.

[aylbert]

1 hour ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

I've got the lotto fever - hope you got it too
Pour me some bubbly now - its all you gotta do
It's Christmas in Secaucus - the draft lottery is drawn
Pop up some popcorn - and welcome aboard
Who's gonna win - Who's gonna lose

[Devilsfan118]

I think I'll be happy even at 6th - this draft is such a crapshoot.

Just... don't let Vancouver jump us and take Luke.

[RunninWithTheDevil]

23 minutes ago, aylbert said:

I've got the lotto fever - hope you got it too
Pour me some bubbly now - its all you gotta do
It's Christmas in Secaucus - the draft lottery is drawn
Pop up some popcorn - and welcome aboard
Who's gonna win - Who's gonna lose

The perfect cross-over doesn't exi-

[SterioDesign]

4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

You’re crazy.

what you are talking about isn’t necessarily even better for the team in the long run, it’s a 2% to 6% increase in the chance for improvement, And that only need something if you pick the right guy anyway, which is a total crapshoot and a lot of circumstances. 

Like I said, and like most of us say, we like when the team wins. We understand in seasons like this, if they lose, so be it.

I'm not even talking about 2% to 6% increase in a draft pick. I'm talking about the general premise that it's fine to take a step back in order to take 2 steps forwards.

And what i'm saying is not addressed to people saying "if they lose, so be it."

It goes to the crowd who just want things done to win NOW, no matter if it could potentially set us back. They fully admit it, they just want to feel good about winning now and want results, no matter what. That's the mentality that got us in this position to start with

 

 

[mfitz804]

9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

It goes to the crowd who just want things done to win NOW, no matter if it could potentially set us back. They fully admit it, they just want to feel good about winning now and want results, no matter what. That's the mentality that got us in this position to start with

I haven’t seen a whole lot of that. 

[SterioDesign]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I haven’t seen a whole lot of that. 

Well ive seen way more of that than fans here actively rooting to tank and lose. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

23 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I'm not even talking about 2% to 6% increase in a draft pick. I'm talking about the general premise that it's fine to take a step back in order to take 2 steps forwards.

And what i'm saying is not addressed to people saying "if they lose, so be it."

It goes to the crowd who just want things done to win NOW, no matter if it could potentially set us back. They fully admit it, they just want to feel good about winning now and want results, no matter what. That's the mentality that got us in this position to start with

 

No one wants to see desperate meh moves to prop up a dying/declining team (this team is clearly not that...it’s a young team that looks like it may have a future, though it’s still questionable at the moment...I’m hopeful).  No one is saying “Overpay a bunch of meh free agents and use up all of the cap space so that the Devils might be a bubble team” either...or to make moves just for the sake of doing so.

If I have any beefs with the current MO, it’s that I don’t want to hear anything from the organization about weaponizing cap space (and implying something big might be coming)...I’d just rather see it happen.  They clearly have the means to spend...of course, as has been discussed, gotta find players willing to come here to take the money.

I think Fitz might dip his feet in the FA pool and contact a guy like Hamilton, but in the end, I still think the cap space “weaponizing” for now will be keeping guys who are homegrown.  Hughes will get an extension, as will Ty Smith...depending how guys like Sharangovich develop, they’ll need extensions too.  Maybe next year there’s enough young pieces that Fitz can move a few of them for a good player under control that makes sense and accelerates things.

But to be clear, no one is advocating reckless spending for a series of “right now” moves just to become a team that might make the playoffs, but even if they do, won’t do a whole lot once they get there...of course we’d all like to see a higher ceiling than that.  But I don’t want to see Fitz not even explore a big “right now” move, if it makes perfect sense, and can help the team both now and in the seasons beyond.  I also think there’s room for a couple of mid-tier signings where, sure, the Devils overpay somewhat, but the guys they bring in fill specific roles, and can be counted on to do their jobs well.

 

[EdgeControl]

6 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I really disagree with not wanting the first pick. Get the first pick, and take your shot.

Respectfully, if anyone in our management shares the view that the number one pick carries too much pressure with it, they should be fired. That pressure is what they get paid for. 

If the lottery isn't rigged I agree.. statistically  one years lottery result has zero affect on the next years probability..   but if it is rigged, then this isn't the year to receive your gift

[RunninWithTheDevil]

So guys, how about this weather amirite?

[NJDfan1711]

3 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

 

what you are talking about isn’t necessarily even better for the team in the long run,. 

Not to mention, that idea is based on the concept of hoping and wishing for something that may never come.  Why want what's best for the team in the long run when you could want what's best for the team now, or tomorrow?  Ok, so if I root for the team to sacrifice a few things now in the hopes that they'll be better in 10 years instead of next year, but then I die in 5 years, what the fvck good was it? I hate the concept of always pushing out your team being successful and competitive into the distant future.  It breeds perpetual losing and an eventual Stanley Cup championship may never come to fruition.  The priority should be building for tomorrow, with the idea that you're also planning for 10 years down the road, not the other way around.

Edited June 2, 2021 by NJDfan1711

[mfitz804]

25 minutes ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

So guys, how about this weather amirite?

I wish it was raining, all of this nice weather makes for too much pressure to have a good day.

[NJDfan1711]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

I haven’t seen a whole lot of that. 

I guess maybe he's referring to what I just said.  But I don't want my comments to be confused with doing whatever it takes and completely disregarding the team's future in order to "win now", but I will absolutely state and commit to the idea that I would much rather make moves to win tomorrow rather than 10 years from now.  I just don't see the point in setting these arbitrary future dates when you think your team can/should/will be competitive. It's like you're just delaying and wasting time.  If you make a transaction (draft pick, free agent signing, trade, etc) in hopes of making your team better tomorrow, there's always time after that to try and reverse it.  But if you wait and make moves literally for the sake of being good 5-10 years from now, well then you can't get that time back and it's literally time wasted for no reason.  At least that's how I see it.

[mfitz804]

6 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I guess maybe he's referring to what I just said.  But I don't want my comments to be confused with doing whatever it takes and completely disregarding the team's future in order to "win now", but I will absolutely state and commit to the idea that I would much rather make moves to win tomorrow rather than 10 years from now.  I just don't see the point in setting these arbitrary future dates when you think your team can/should/will be competitive. It's like you're just delaying and wasting time.  If you make a transaction (draft pick, free agent signing, trade, etc) in hopes of making your team better tomorrow, there's always time after that to try and reverse it.  But if you wait and make moves literally for the sake of being good 5-10 years from now, well then you can't get that time back and it's literally time wasted for no reason.  At least that's how I see it.

If that’s what he’s talking about it makes no sense at all. Who roots for a rebuild? 

I want the team to win because that’s the purpose of being a fan. I go into every season hoping for the best, being completely disappointed, and then at the end, rooting for the team but being indifferent when we lose. 

I’ve seen guys on this site making plans to try to win the lottery 2-3 years from now because some 15 year old kid gave them a hockey boner, but to me that is a complete waste of time. If you are planning who we might draft 3 years from now, I don’t know why you’re bothering to watch hockey. 

[NJDfan1711]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

If that’s what he’s talking about it makes no sense at all. Who roots for a rebuild? 

I’ve seen guys on this site making plans to try to win the lottery 2-3 years from now because some 15 year old kid gave them a hockey boner, but to me that is a complete waste of time. If you are planning who we might draft 3 years from now, I don’t know why you’re bothering to watch hockey. 

To the first bolded part, I'm not sure he is of the opinion to root for the rebuild, but I get the sense that he's content with the team being average (or terrible) and not doing all they can to be good tomorrow, as long as they have a plan in place to be good in 3 years, 5 years, or 10 years, or whatever it may be.  

To your second bolded part - exactly - and I completely agree.  That's fvcking stupid.  I don't understand the concept of not maxing out your possibilities and even taking some gambles and chances here or there in order to try to win and be good tomorrow.  Who the fvck gives a sh!t what's gonna happen 3, 5 or even 10 years from now?  Plenty of time to worry and plan for that later.  

[Devil Dan 56]

23 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I wish it was raining, all of this nice weather makes for too much pressure to have a good day.

Sure sun right now would be nice, but you need a few years of rain so trees and plants grow. Kinda selfish for people to want it to be nice out. 

[aylbert]

3 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

The perfect cross-over doesn't exi-

I feel like the audience appeal is low though.     but idc.

[SterioDesign]

2 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

To the first bolded part, I'm not sure he is of the opinion to root for the rebuild, but I get the sense that he's content with the team being average (or terrible) and not doing all they can to be good tomorrow, as long as they have a plan in place to be good in 3 years, 5 years, or 10 years, or whatever it may be.  

To your second bolded part - exactly - and I completely agree.  That's fvcking stupid.  I don't understand the concept of not maxing out your possibilities and even taking some gambles and chances here or there in order to try to win and be good tomorrow.  Who the fvck gives a sh!t what's gonna happen 3, 5 or even 10 years from now?  Plenty of time to worry and plan for that later.  

Am i the "he" here?