GDT: TBL @ NJD 7pm MSG+

[DevsMan84]

7 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Exactly. He WANTED it and then proceeded to do diddly squat to actually DO it. When a GM lays down that kind of expectation and the team woefully misses it, there should be some sort of adjustment other than a shoulder shrug and a Severson-style oh well gee shucks we tried. Since 2018 the team has regressed on the ice. 

 

I just can't believe how willing this organization, from the GM on up, are so quick to fold like a cheap suit once trouble starts brewing.  Instead, we are always told of better days ahead that never seem to come.  This is why I openly speculate about the true intentions of the owners and the entire organization.

[SterioDesign]

24 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

He WANTED to play meaningful games in March and did little to nothing when that possibility started getting in jeopardy.

I am not upset at Fitz that things went awry (and did so pretty quickly), but that he sat on his hands instead.  I know this flies in the face of your "everyone but Lou is a better GM!" schtick you have put on for years, but there is a possibility that Fitz just might not be as good (or as crafty) as we think he is.

So i asked you or someone to provide examples of something he could have done. Give me a realistic trade that is putting us in the playoffs at the moment. I'll wait.

Also don't mix up what i've been saying about Lou. I've been very specific about the aspect of his way of doing things that i was against. Lou was a great GM who let his stubbornness get in the way of being better. Which is how he refused to talk contract during the season and let all his top UFAs walk for nothing and his disregard of the long-term health of the franchise, he was an all-in, right now GM no matter what the situation was. Listening to Elias' interview not long ago explaining how Lou basically just gave up on him and pushed him towards free agency and didn't even try to sign him made my blood boil. 

When it comes to trades and how to put teams together and coaches im generally fine with Lou. Hell i even defended him not long ago that his trade for Schneider was not a bad trade "at that moment". 

[DevsMan84]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

So i asked you or someone to provide examples of something he could have done. Give me a realistic trade that is putting us in the playoffs at the moment. I'll wait.

Also don't mix up what i've been saying about Lou. I've been very specific about the aspect of his way of doing things that i was against. Lou was a great GM who let his stubbornness get in the way of being better. Which is how he refused to talk contract during the season and let all his top UFAs walk for nothing and his disregard of the long-term health of the franchise, he was an all-in, right now GM no matter what the situation was. Listening to Elias' interview not long ago explaining how Lou basically just gave up on him and pushed him towards free agency and didn't even try to sign him made my blood boil. 

When it comes to trades and how to put teams together and coaches im generally fine with Lou. Hell i even defended him not long ago that his trade for Schneider was not a bad trade "at that moment". 

lol of FFS you know that is a loaded question.  I don't know who and what is available out there.  It's not my job; it's Fitz's.  All I know is that other GM's in the league are doing more than just sitting on their hands when the ship starts sinking.

[SterioDesign]

18 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

lol of FFS you know that is a loaded question.  I don't know who and what is available out there.  It's not my job; it's Fitz's.  All I know is that other GM's in the league are doing more than just sitting on their hands when the ship starts sinking.

No but just try you don't need to know who's available. This is an exercise just find a few potential targets that make sense for everyone in a trade. You spent more than 10 minutes whining about this in the last few days. You can spend 10 minutes trying to figure this out, I'll even explain what you have to do. It will be fun. 

1- Go through all NHL teams. Check all their goaltenders tandem and prospect pool. And isolate teams that you think would be willing to trade a solid goalie able to be a #1 goalie able to bring a team in the playoffs. It should narrow down your search to only a few teams. 

2- Go through those teams and then isolate the ones you think would be willing to part with that goalie and that what they need and want in return would be something we'd be willing to trade.

3- Then give me a few trade proposal that you think are fair. We'll review them. 

Keep in mind, how tricky it would be to trade for a goalie who can be a starter.... without even sending back a goalie the other way. Since both our goalies are injured. How tricky is that? Also we have 2 NHL goalies signed already beyond this year and our depth isn't amazing and we didn't project to make the playoffs this year. So wtv you're willing to trade. Ask yourself if its worth making that trade to just patch a hole.

Cmon you go.

 

Also you claim other GMs are doing more than sit on their hands if the ship. Let's have a look shall we?

https://www.tsn.ca/tradecentre/trade-tracker

Go through the list. Where's the Flyers? Where's the Blue Jackets? Where's Winnipeg? where's San Jose? Where's Vancouver? etc etc

Hell we did more than those teams simply by trading for Gillies

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by SterioDesign

[DevsMan84]

14 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

No but just try you don't need to know who's available. This is an exercise just find a few potential targets that make sense for everyone in a trade. You spent more than 10 minutes whining about this in the last few days. You can spend 10 minutes trying to figure this out, I'll even explain what you have to do. It will be fun. 

1- Go through all NHL teams. Check all their goaltenders tandem and prospect pool. And isolate teams that you think would be willing to trade a solid goalie able to be a #1 goalie able to bring a team in the playoffs. It should narrow down your search to only a few teams. 

2- Go through those teams and then isolate the ones you think would be willing to part with that goalie and that what they need and want in return would be something we'd be willing to trade.

3- Then give me a few trade proposal that you think are fair. We'll review them. 

Keep in mind, how tricky it would be to trade for a goalie who can be a starter.... without even sending back a goalie the other way. Since both our goalies are injured. How tricky is that? Also we have 2 NHL goalies signed already beyond this year and our depth isn't amazing and we didn't project to make the playoffs this year. So wtv you're willing to trade. Ask yourself if its worth making that trade to just patch a hole.

Cmon you go.

 

Also you claim other GMs are doing more than sit on their hands if the ship. Let's have a look shall we?

https://www.tsn.ca/tradecentre/trade-tracker

Go through the list. Where's the Flyers? Where's the Blue Jackets? Where's Winnipeg? where's San Jose? Where's Vancouver? etc etc

Hell we did more than those teams simply by trading for Gillies

 

All of those teams have had better records than us over the past 10 years.  They can afford to stand pat a little bit.  We have been standing pat during the season since pretty much the 17-18 season.  Plus Vancouver changed coaches and have done much better since then.  Flyers also changed their coach which didn't end their losing, but at least their GM did something to show he is alive.

No, I will not go through this exercise.  You know it's a nonsense and trivial pursuit for me to engagement in since some trades are fair, some are not.  If all trades were fair, you wouldn't have the Larsson for Hall, Gomez for McD, and Brassard for Zibanejad trades.  I also fully expect no matter what proposal I put forth you will find some issue with it and tell me I am wrong.

What I do know is that outside of selling players on expiring contracts and picking up other team's castoffs/waivers we have not done anything in-season to make the team better in about 5 years.  Other teams have been able to do that and often they are in better position than us.  If Fitz is saying that he believes the "answer is in that room" then he should be willing to live or die by these players then.  If they are going to be a bottom 5 team in the league, yet again, then he shouldn't be an NHL GM.

Edited February 17, 2022 by DevsMan84

[MadDog2020]

46 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

So i asked you or someone to provide examples of something he could have done. Give me a realistic trade that is putting us in the playoffs at the moment. I'll wait.

I’m sorry, that isn’t my job- it’s Tom Fitzgerald’s. So I don’t really give a sh!t. He lacks balls, and it also appears, creativity. 

[DevsMan84]

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

I’m sorry, that isn’t my job- it’s Tom Fitzgerald’s. So I don’t really give a sh!t. He lacks balls, and it also appears, creativity. 

This.

Shero/Fitz seem to be good at being sellers and doing these low-risk, high-reward trades.  However, I have not seen any sort of trade that takes guts to make the team better in the 7 years they have been in charge.

[MadDog2020]

Fitz really moving on that Zacha trade that’ll never happen either. Can’t wait to re-sign that sloth to a two year tweener deal this summer. Answers brah. Room brah. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by MadDog2020

[MadDog2020]

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

This.

Shero/Fitz seem to be good at being sellers and doing these low-risk, high-reward trades.  However, I have not seen any sort of trade that takes guts to make the team better in the 7 years they have been in charge.

Hall for Larsson. That’s literally it.

[SterioDesign]

25 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

No, I will not go through this exercise.  You know it's a nonsense and trivial pursuit for me to engagement in since some trades are fair, some are not.  If all trades were fair, you wouldn't have the Larsson for Hall, Gomez for McD, and Brassard for Zibanejad trades.  I also fully expect no matter what proposal I put forth you will find some issue with it and tell me I am wrong.

13 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I’m sorry, that isn’t my job- it’s Tom Fitzgerald’s. So I don’t really give a sh!t. He lacks balls, and it also appears, creativity. 

Thats the biggest cop out ever.

"I don't care if what he has to do is realistic or not, all i want is hate on him cause i don't see results. That's his job not mine!"

haha such a coward stance and proving that all you want to do is whine to feel better about it.

I don't care about being wrong here. Just prove that you're willing to understand context rather than expecting someone to do something that may not be realistic at all cause you think getting a starting goalie is something you can just go to walmart and put in your cart. What i asked you to do is incredibly fair. Just give me a few names of goalies around the league who you think could have put us in the playoffs and that we could have traded for. There's only 60ish goalies, can't be that hard to name a few. 

It's you guys lacking balls and creativity, clearly.

[mfitz804]

9 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Aren't you the same guy who says "well it takes two to dance, maybe Fitz is trying and it isn't working"? This is a question where no answer will satisfy you because even if I post a plausible trade that would've helped the Devils coming into the season -- like trading for Nico's countryman Timo Meier in the offseason like I was begging for before his value exploded -- you'll say something along the lines of "well since we don't knowwwww that he didn't actually try you can't blame him for it. it takes two to tango!" which is an excuse apparently extended to every GM in the history of the league who's name isn't Lou. 

So let's not do the whole song and dance where I propose a trade, you go on a diatribe with self-serving conjecture, I call you poopy pants, and devlman pops in to tell me that his grandfather Mr. Poopypants died serving our great country and my slanderous comments should get me permabanned, and mfitz will reference another old joke that got deleted. 

Implying there aren't trades that could've been made is silly.

I will also probably mention someone's weiner. I'm just saying. 

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

I don't care about being wrong here.

That’s good. Because you’re wrong. 

[devlman]

3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

So i asked you or someone to provide examples of something he could have done. Give me a realistic trade that is putting us in the playoffs at the moment. I'll wait.

Also don't mix up what i've been saying about Lou. I've been very specific about the aspect of his way of doing things that i was against. Lou was a great GM who let his stubbornness get in the way of being better. Which is how he refused to talk contract during the season and let all his top UFAs walk for nothing and his disregard of the long-term health of the franchise, he was an all-in, right now GM no matter what the situation was. Listening to Elias' interview not long ago explaining how Lou basically just gave up on him and pushed him towards free agency and didn't even try to sign him made my blood boil. 

When it comes to trades and how to put teams together and coaches im generally fine with Lou. Hell i even defended him not long ago that his trade for Schneider was not a bad trade "at that moment". 

If this ‘well, we will never know’ response to any opinion became the norm then we wouldn’t have a messageboard. 

We know at best that he’s possibly ‘trying’ to get a deal done. But here’s the thing: trying and failing = failing…even if another GM doesn’t want to partner with him on a deal. You don’t get points for years of trying and failing, sorry. Not in this business. Results matter. And that’s assuming  he’s even trying at all. It seems like he’s fine with punting the season. Doubt he’s trying.

Edited February 17, 2022 by devlman

[Devil Dan 56]

I’d be fine with the “well he’s trying but nothing is happening” thing if this wasn’t year 8 of this endless rebuild. He wanted to have meaningful games and we aren’t and nothing changed. No move, no coach change. Not even a minor trade to shake up the room and say “this isn’t acceptable”. 

Sometimes you have to change course and Fitz has proven to be unwilling to do that. 

[SterioDesign]

20 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Aren't you the same guy who says "well it takes two to dance, maybe Fitz is trying and it isn't working"? This is a question where no answer will satisfy you because even if I post a plausible trade that would've helped the Devils coming into the season -- like trading for Nico's countryman Timo Meier in the offseason like I was begging for before his value exploded -- you'll say something along the lines of "well since we don't knowwwww that he didn't actually try you can't blame him for it. it takes two to tango!" which is an excuse apparently extended to every GM in the history of the league who's name isn't Lou. 

So let's not do the whole song and dance where I propose a trade, you go on a diatribe with self-serving conjecture, I call you poopy pants, and devlman pops in to tell me that his grandfather Mr. Poopypants died serving our great country and my slanderous comments should get me permabanned, and mfitz will reference another old joke that got deleted. 

Implying there aren't trades that could've been made is silly.

If you have to literally project and make up what someone would say to discredit their point... maybe you don't have a point lol

How do you know no answers would satisfy me? it's not about me. It's about those guys understanding what they are expecting. You can't have realistic expectations if you don't know what a person has to do and has to work with. That's just common sense. 

Saying that it takes 2 to tango is a legit claim. It's not saying that something was done either. It's just saying that you can't crucify someone for NOT DOING ANYTHING, when you don't know for a fact that he didn't do anything. No trade happening straight up doesn't mean no trade was attempted, that's pure fact. It's incredibly basic.

Also why would I not give that excuse to Lou? You're full of sh!t and IF i'd actually say that, it would be in context of Lou not trading an upcoming UFA he's going to lose for nothing, and it's very well documented that he wouldn't attempt to sign or trade him. Very different than what you're projecting here.

I also didnt imply that there isn't trade to be made, i implied that it's a lot more tricky than some may think.  A lot of fans straight up believe that if a GM want something, he can just get it if he really wants to and that if he does that the cost would be worth it. It's insanely stupid.

 

 

[SterioDesign]

6 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I’d be fine with the “well he’s trying but nothing is happening” thing if this wasn’t year 8 of this endless rebuild. He wanted to have meaningful games and we aren’t and nothing changed. No move, no coach change. Not even a minor trade to shake up the room and say “this isn’t acceptable”. 

Sometimes you have to change course and Fitz has proven to be unwilling to do that. 

he traded for Gillies. So this makes your "no move" claim a straight up lie

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

he traded for Gillies. So this makes your "no move" claim a straight up lie

This is straight trolling. That was only a ‘move’ in the literal sense of the word. So get the fvck outta here with this. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by MadDog2020

[Devil Dan 56]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

he traded for Gillies. So this makes your "no move" claim a straight up lie

He traded for Gillies because we literally didn’t have enough goalies between injuries and Covid. It was that or Scott Clemmensen at that point 

[NJDevils1214]

5 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

He traded for Gillies because we literally didn’t have enough goalies between injuries and Covid. It was that or Scott Clemmensen at that point 

A trade in the literal sense, but Fitz practically sent a Starbucks card back to STL.

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

Nearly 14 years of discourse between the two of us isn’t just projecting. If I say my dog is going to bark when the UPS guy rings the bell I’m not projecting that behavior on him, I’m commenting on a patterned behavior based on 10 years of knowing him. “It takes two to tango” or a variation of that is your favorite thing in the world when you want to soil an argument down to baseless conjecture.

It's only soiling arguments for people who want to use their own projections as facts. Sorry but that's just a fact. You seeing no trade happen and assuming that a GM sat on his hand not even trying to explore options is not fact. It's a projection.

And your argument about Lou was false and i explained why.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

Nearly 14 years of discourse between the two of us isn’t just projecting. If I say my dog is going to bark when the UPS guy rings the bell I’m not projecting that behavior on him, I’m commenting on a patterned behavior based on 10 years of knowing him. “It takes two to tango” or a variation of that is your favorite thing in the world when you want to soil an argument down to baseless conjecture.

Weiner. 

1 hour ago, NJDevils1214 said:

A trade in the literal sense, but Fitz practically sent a Starbucks card back to STL.

Those things are like fvcking gold to my 14 year old. 

[DevsMan84]

18 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Thats the biggest cop out ever.

"I don't care if what he has to do is realistic or not, all i want is hate on him cause i don't see results. That's his job not mine!"

haha such a coward stance and proving that all you want to do is whine to feel better about it.

I don't care about being wrong here. Just prove that you're willing to understand context rather than expecting someone to do something that may not be realistic at all cause you think getting a starting goalie is something you can just go to walmart and put in your cart. What i asked you to do is incredibly fair. Just give me a few names of goalies around the league who you think could have put us in the playoffs and that we could have traded for. There's only 60ish goalies, can't be that hard to name a few. 

It's you guys lacking balls and creativity, clearly.

lol it's not a cop out.  Every other response knows exactly where this is going with you.  I can make up the most fair, realistic trade and you will still have some issue with it.  Why waste my breath on that?

Again, I can't read other GM's minds.  There are "even" trades that I can name and then there are the Larsson for Hall type trades I can also name.  What value should I put out there?

The only thing I know for certain is that Fitz's only move this season was picking up Bastain, a very recent former player they didn't want to part with to begin with, on waivers and getting Gillies for "future considerations" because we were in a manpower jam and just needed a warm body.  Other GM's having similarly hard seasons this season have done more to salvage their season (Philly, Vancouver, etc) while others have done less.  My issue is that this is yet again another year where our major moves consists of being sellers at the deadline or trading picks/spare parts for players in these low-risk/high-reward type of trades.  If that is the extent of Fitz's creativity, in the same season where he proclaimed he wanted to play meaningful games in March, then I am genuinely concerned if he is the right guy for us as GM.

Edited February 18, 2022 by DevsMan84

[DevsMan84]

16 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

If you have to literally project and make up what someone would say to discredit their point... maybe you don't have a point lol

How do you know no answers would satisfy me? it's not about me. It's about those guys understanding what they are expecting. You can't have realistic expectations if you don't know what a person has to do and has to work with. That's just common sense. 

Saying that it takes 2 to tango is a legit claim. It's not saying that something was done either. It's just saying that you can't crucify someone for NOT DOING ANYTHING, when you don't know for a fact that he didn't do anything. No trade happening straight up doesn't mean no trade was attempted, that's pure fact. It's incredibly basic.

Also why would I not give that excuse to Lou? You're full of sh!t and IF i'd actually say that, it would be in context of Lou not trading an upcoming UFA he's going to lose for nothing, and it's very well documented that he wouldn't attempt to sign or trade him. Very different than what you're projecting here.

I also didnt imply that there isn't trade to be made, i implied that it's a lot more tricky than some may think.  A lot of fans straight up believe that if a GM want something, he can just get it if he really wants to and that if he does that the cost would be worth it. It's insanely stupid.

 

 

Oh stop.  No one believes that.  We just see other GM's doing something to salvage their season or make their teams better while our current and previous GM had no problems punting the season away by Christmas and make promises of better days ahead that never comes.

You have effectively nailed Lou to cross for years for not doing all these what-if scenarios with Parise in his final season here.  Again, I think you real reason for defending Shero/Fitz is that it flies in the face of your "anybody but Lou is a better GM!" schtick you still put on.  )FWIW, I now fully expect you to post the 2014-15 lineup and say something like "well this is what he left us with!").

[DevsMan84]

15 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

He traded for Gillies because we literally didn’t have enough goalies between injuries and Covid. It was that or Scott Clemmensen at that point 

He was literally the first warm body that was available for practically nothing and somehow we have to consider that as proof that Fitz was trying to do something lol.

[SterioDesign]

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

lol it's not a cop out.  Every other response knows exactly where this is going with you.  I can make up the most fair, realistic trade and you will still have some issue with it.  Why waste my breath on that?

Again, I can't read other GM's minds.  There are "even" trades that I can name and then there are the Larsson for Hall type trades I can also name.  What value should I put out there?

The only thing I know for certain is that Fitz's only move this summer was picking up Bastain, a very recent former player they didn't want to part with to begin with, on waivers and getting Gillies for "future considerations" because we were in a manpower jam and just needed a warm body.  Other GM's having similarly hard seasons this season have done more to salvage their season (Philly, Vancouver, etc) while others have done less.  My issue is that this is yet again another year where our major moves consists of being sellers at the deadline or trading picks/spare parts for players in these low-risk/high-reward type of trades.  If that is the extent of Fitz's creativity, in the same season where he proclaimed he wanted to play meaningful games in March, then I am genuinely concerned if he is the right guy for us as GM.

Why would i have an issue with it. It's not about me at all. The whole thing is about YOU expecting something that may or may not even be possible, so the least you could do is try to see what's out there. It might be, i have no idea i didn't go through the exercise. 

Trades from the past like Hall vs Larsson. That was an obvious trade in the sense that we needed scoring, the oilers desperately needed some D and had many forwards and some who needed a change of scenery. And that's technically harder cause there's so many players. How many goalies that can be a starter could be available without sending another goalie the other way. That's a very very fair question.

And for the 10th time. You do understand that saying you want to play meaningful games in march and that AFTER that a TON of sh!t goes to sh!t, you change your expectations, whats so damn hard to understand there? we were NOT going to be miracle on ice this year. We HAVE 2 NHL goalies already. There's really no point for a team not projected to make the playoffs to trade away assets to patch a hole temporary just to maybe challenge for a spot. That's not being responsible, that's been desperate. If we were Colorado or a team really going for it and having to make an impact, that's a completely different conversation, then you REALLY have to do something and can't let that slip away somehow, but you have to pay the price for that.

We're just not at that point yet. We still have 2 goalies out, another top contributor out, we still have 20+ million in cap space, etc etc