2023-2024 NJ Devils season thread

[MadDog2020]

I see what Fitz is up to. He makes Markstrom the #1 target and puts it out there that he’ll wait until the offseason if necessary to acquire him. This gives him the excuse to punt on the season. But more importantly, it gives him an excuse to not only not fire Lindy, but to retain him next season. ‘Guys, I couldn’t get my goalie. I had to wait. We had a lot of injuries (even though we’ve had just about a full lineup for over a month and still can’t string more than a win or two together at a time consecutively). Lindy deserves a chance with the new goalie!’ This is what I believe we are being set up for. I really hope I’m wrong. 

[smelly]

Markstrom steals another game. 

Devs would be in a PO spot if Fitz had pulled the trigger already. 

[slasher72]

1 hour ago, smelly said:

Nope. That solves nothing. Basically the equivalent of “let’s wait to pay more for the same thing.”

And btw no one internally is afraid of moving Holtz. He’s slow and will never drive play 5x5.

Good kid, totally expendable.

He goes in any deal. Fitz’s goal has to be to avoid paying much more.

If he waits until summer, the price will likely be Mercer (whether for Markstrom or any other serious solution).

 

Mercer plus our first-rounder for Markstrom. Then Markstrom gets coached by Dave Rogalski (because he's not getting fired as long as Marty is here), his play falls off a cliff, and it's back to the drawing board.

[smelly]

4 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

Mercer plus our first-rounder for Markstrom. Then Markstrom gets coached by Dave Rogalski (because he's not getting fired as long as Marty is here), his play falls off a cliff, and it's back to the drawing board.

Markstrom is a savvy vet and former Vezina finalist. He will ignore Rogalski. 
 

BIG difference from youngsters like AS and ND, or JAGs like VV. 
 

But if it goes to summer, I suspect you’ve nailed the price. 

Edited March 3 by smelly

[slasher72]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

I see what Fitz is up to. He makes Markstrom the #1 target and puts it out there that he’ll wait until the offseason if necessary to acquire him. This gives him the excuse to punt on the season. But more importantly, it gives him an excuse to not only not fire Lindy, but to retain him next season. ‘Guys, I couldn’t get my goalie. I had to wait. We had a lot of injuries (even though we’ve had just about a full lineup for over a month and still can’t string more than a win or two together at a time consecutively). Lindy deserves a chance with the new goalie!’ This is what I believe we are being set up for. I really hope I’m wrong. 

You're not wrong. Lindy is 100% coming back and so is Rogalski. They'll give up the farm to obtain a turning 35 year old Markstrom, giving Lindy everything he needs to get it done. 

Btw, I dont mean to beat a dead horse with the whole Lindy and Rogalski thing, I just feel all but certain that both will return. I think this will be it though. If Fitz gives Lindy a new goalie and they fail to make the playoffs again next year, Lindy will be toast. Berube isn't coming here. Fitz will pull a Shero and stay the course with Ruff.

Edited March 3 by slasher72

[smelly]

Devils have three options at G for next year: 

 

1. Run it back with their internal options. 
 

2. Pay through the nose in a trade. 
 

3. Sign a UFA. 
 

Option 1 is a nonstarter.

 

So if you oppose a trade (because Markstrom or whoever is “too old” or “makes too much” or “has been too inconsistent year over year” or whatever), or if you are naively expecting — or refuse to make — a deal without a heavy, heavy price (at a minimum some combo of Holtz, Mercer and Casey plus a first round pick), you are left with with no choice but to make a multi year commitment and to spend at least a third of what Markstrom’s cap hit would be anyway for one of the following studs.  
 

For everyone saying wait until summer, that doesn’t change anything about these options. And almost certainly pushes the price of a trade higher. 
 

The path forward isn’t ideal, but it is obvious. 
 

Happy trails . . .

 

 

 

Edited March 3 by smelly

[smelly]

Smh

 

 

Edited March 3 by smelly

[slasher72]

This is where the team's inability to draft and groom an NHL caliber goalie really bites us in the ass. Every playoff contending team seems capable of doing it but us. We haven't had a quality goalie since Schneider's first/second year (before he fell off a cliff) and haven't groomed a quality goalie since Marty.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

After last night's results I think we are done. 8 points out of any wildcard, 7 off the last divisional spot.

Sell what you can. Hope you get a decent draft pick, and use that as a trade peice to get some immediate help in the summer.

[jagknife]

7 hours ago, slasher72 said:

Mercer plus our first-rounder for Markstrom. Then Markstrom gets coached by Dave Rogalski (because he's not getting fired as long as Marty is here), his play falls off a cliff, and it's back to the drawing board.

 

7 hours ago, smelly said:

Markstrom is a savvy vet and former Vezina finalist. He will ignore Rogalski. 

Worse option: like every vet goalie that comes here, one summer with Rogalski and suddenly they lose their fire for the game. Boom, retirement. We haven had one of those in a while…

[pumpkin cutter]

we keepin or trading toffili? i want to keep him. 

[jagknife]

22 minutes ago, pumpkin cutter said:

we keepin or trading toffili? i want to keep him. 

not a shot at you: logic says trade, get assets, then pitch over the summer when he hits UFA.

Therefore, Fitz will sign him for 5x$5m (2 years longer than my other thread prediction, gotta cast the wide net for the eventual "i told you so" thread)

[xxchaznjxx]

I must be the only person who doesn't want Markstrom.  He seems like a win now goalie move and the Devils aren't close to winning now.  They are not a goalie away from winning anything yet.  While last season was a blessing for long suffering fans, they were handled by CAR in the playoffs and this season is what it is.  I think this team is better than their record indicates but not Stanley Cup contending better, even with Markstrom and a different coach (maybe Berube can be a Burns type influence). 

Next season is Markstrom's 34/35 year old season.  He would absolutely make the Devils better but I don't think it's enough to contend and I don't really want to give up any decent assets for him knowing we probably have a lottery pick this year.

If we need to give up assets for a goalie I'd rather do it for a youngerish goalie who can grow with this team.  I don't know who that would be as I'm not a GM.  But I don't think Markstom's the answer.

[slasher72]

3 hours ago, jagknife said:

 

Worse option: like every vet goalie that comes here, one summer with Rogalski and suddenly they lose their fire for the game. Boom, retirement. We haven had one of those in a while…

Yea, I could totally see Markstrom retiring early with us ala Crawford. unless a total housecleaning happens with the coaching staff, it'll be the same results next year. 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

19 minutes ago, xxchaznjxx said:

I must be the only person who doesn't want Markstrom.  He seems like a win now goalie move and the Devils aren't close to winning now.  They are not a goalie away from winning anything yet.  While last season was a blessing for long suffering fans, they were handled by CAR in the playoffs and this season is what it is.  I think this team is better than their record indicates but not Stanley Cup contending better, even with Markstrom and a different coach (maybe Berube can be a Burns type influence). 

Next season is Markstrom's 34/35 year old season.  He would absolutely make the Devils better but I don't think it's enough to contend and I don't really want to give up any decent assets for him knowing we probably have a lottery pick this year.

If we need to give up assets for a goalie I'd rather do it for a youngerish goalie who can grow with this team.  I don't know who that would be as I'm not a GM.  But I don't think Markstom's the answer.

I agree with all of this.

I think for some , they still feel there is a chance of making something out of this season or that they are just sick of the on ice product.

I think this is one of the last few seasons we can afford to write off. There won't be many more (if any), but although it's bloody annoying it isn't the end of the world for this team. This is still firmly in the start of our window. 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

If anyone was in doubt this season was basically over:

 

[slasher72]

30 minutes ago, xxchaznjxx said:

I must be the only person who doesn't want Markstrom.  He seems like a win now goalie move and the Devils aren't close to winning now.  They are not a goalie away from winning anything yet.  While last season was a blessing for long suffering fans, they were handled by CAR in the playoffs and this season is what it is.  I think this team is better than their record indicates but not Stanley Cup contending better, even with Markstrom and a different coach (maybe Berube can be a Burns type influence). 

Next season is Markstrom's 34/35 year old season.  He would absolutely make the Devils better but I don't think it's enough to contend and I don't really want to give up any decent assets for him knowing we probably have a lottery pick this year.

If we need to give up assets for a goalie I'd rather do it for a youngerish goalie who can grow with this team.  I don't know who that would be as I'm not a GM.  But I don't think Markstom's the answer.

Fitz seems hell-bent on acquiring Markstrom according to reports. My guess would be that he and Ruff want to see a more immediate solution in net, because if they don't upgrade asap, their jobs could both be in jeopardy next season.  These guys probably aren't thinking 3 to 4 years down the line. Markstrom gives them an immediate upgrade and buys them two years.

 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 hours ago, jagknife said:

not a shot at you: logic says trade, get assets, then pitch over the summer when he hits UFA.

Therefore, Fitz will sign him for 5x$5m (2 years longer than my other thread prediction, gotta cast the wide net for the eventual "i told you so" thread)

I get that you’re frustrated and pissed because we ALL are, but I can’t (over)react to absolute worst-case scenarios that haven’t happened yet until they actually do.

That being said, here’s where I am:

I accept that this season is over.  I absolutely do NOT accept that Fitz didn’t at least try a coaching change (sorry Lindy is not SO great that he should be getting this endless “part of the solution” treatment), but this season is obviously now beyond being righted.

I will also absolutely NOT accept any doubling down this offseason.  If Lindy gets another season and VV/Schmid/Daws are the netminders to start 2024-25, then there’s just no defending Fitz.  When you’re coming off an 112-point season and both VV and Schmid came off solid seasons and were cost-effective, I get betting on status quo once.  CANNOT do it again.  

[jagknife]

34 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

Yea, I could totally see Markstrom retiring early with us ala Crawford. unless a total housecleaning happens with the coaching staff, it'll be the same results next year. 

I was being sarcastic, but I hate the coaching staff.

7 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I get that you’re frustrated and pissed because we ALL are, but I can’t (over)react to absolute worst-case scenarios that haven’t happened yet until they actually do.

That being said, here’s where I am:

I accept that this season is over.  I absolutely do NOT accept that Fitz didn’t at least try a coaching change (sorry Lindy is not SO great that he should be getting this endless “part of the solution” treatment), but this season is obviously now beyond being righted.

I will also absolutely NOT accept any doubling down this offseason.  If Lindy gets another season and VV/Schmid/Daws are the netminders to start 2024-25, then there’s just no defending Fitz.  When you’re coming off an 112-point season and both VV and Schmid came off solid seasons and were cost-effective, I get betting on status quo once.  CANNOT do it again.  

I’m the opposite. I think he absolutely bought the injuries, goaltending and regression excuses and is running with it. 

I’m jaded and in a bitchy mood towards this team now, I don’t really believe Toffoli will get 5x5 but I do not doubt he will get close to 3x5 as his offer to stay. For goal scoring I guess it’s worth it, but for asset management it means we’ve given up on Holtz, which I think would be a tremendous mistake, and that’s from someone who was okay moving on from him last year for Meier. 

holtz has clearly grown and progressed. He’s still raw, understandably, but his mismanagement by Ruff is inexcusable. As are a lot of Ruff’s decisions.

he, ruff, cannot be allowed to run this team next season. He does not make his players better, he keeps them status quo or allows complacency and eventually regression.

[MadDog2020]

7 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I will also absolutely NOT accept any doubling down this offseason.  If Lindy gets another season and VV/Schmid/Daws are the netminders to start 2024-25, then there’s just no defending Fitz.

It won’t be VV/Schmid/Daws, of that I’m reasonably certain, no matter what. But I do believe Fitz will retain Lindy and use all the stupid excuses that the rest of us know are bullsh!t as his justification for doing so. I think that the news that dropped yesterday about Markstrom being Fitz’s #1 target and him being willing to wait until summer to get him sets it up for him to excuse away this season as ‘bad luck’ and for him to keep Lindy on to start next season. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

44 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I was being sarcastic, but I hate the coaching staff.

I’m the opposite. I think he absolutely bought the injuries, goaltending and regression excuses and is running with it. 

I’m jaded and in a bitchy mood towards this team now, I don’t really believe Toffoli will get 5x5 but I do not doubt he will get close to 3x5 as his offer to stay. For goal scoring I guess it’s worth it, but for asset management it means we’ve given up on Holtz, which I think would be a tremendous mistake, and that’s from someone who was okay moving on from him last year for Meier. 

holtz has clearly grown and progressed. He’s still raw, understandably, but his mismanagement by Ruff is inexcusable. As are a lot of Ruff’s decisions.

he, ruff, cannot be allowed to run this team next season. He does not make his players better, he keeps them status quo or allows complacency and eventually regression.

Sorry, I meant that I find it unacceptable that Fitz didn’t try to replace Ruff.  I didn’t word that well.

[jagknife]

21 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Sorry, I meant that I find it unacceptable that Fitz didn’t try to replace Ruff.  I didn’t word that well.

Oh gotcha, yeah definitely took it as you thought he tried to move on and got stopped.

[smelly]

Deal is far from dead. May even end up being bigger than ya think. 
 

Unclear whether it will get over finish line. But everyone is working. 
 

[SKA1989]

8 minutes ago, smelly said:

Deal is far from dead. May even end up being bigger than ya think. 
 

Unclear whether it will get over finish line. But everyone is working. 
 

Well at least they’re making it interesting. Curious if Hanifin might be part of the package (although supposedly his preferenc is Tampa Bay…)

[slasher72]

2 hours ago, jagknife said:

holtz has clearly grown and progressed. He’s still raw, understandably, but his mismanagement by Ruff is inexcusable. As are a lot of Ruff’s decisions.

he, ruff, cannot be allowed to run this team next season. He does not make his players better, he keeps them status quo or allows complacency and eventually regression.

- Holtz has grown but Lindy can't stand him. Everyone here has had a boss who micromanaged us for one reason or another, most of it not making sense, and we had to get out of there or change jobs. That's where Holtz is at with Ruff. 

- Ruff is not effective as a coach beyond year 2 of any contract. He should have been gone already but Jack saved his job with last year's performance and now it's anyone's guess. Does Fitz stick with Ruff and hand him Markstrom? I think so.