Trade Deadline Talk

[sundstrom]

If all it takes is picks and prospects to get Pronger or Niedermayer I think Lou has to do it. Depending on what the picks and prospects are of course.

that's the point - it won't. both will require roster players - likely martin, zajac, or at the very least - clarkson; all of which are very valuable to this team.

also - to triumph; mogilny for pederson and morrison were fairly important roster players to both teams.

the one thing i think is not in doubt - lou is going for it this season and will do anything he can to give this team as best a chance as it can have. the way the top two lines are clicking, along with the contributions of the bottom two lines, you just can't waste that.

[Mike441]

I think a defender would be great for this team...but i'd rather take my chances without one if we had to get rid of say a clarkson. Bottom Line is Lou isnt a GM in a major pro sport for nothing. He knows what hes doing(and according to the rumors only him). Im sure hes looking but i trust he knows if he trades someone he looked at the team chemistry without that player and saw it was for the good.

['7']

that's the point - it won't. both will require roster players - likely martin, zajac, or at the very least - clarkson; all of which are very valuable to this team.

also - to triumph; mogilny for pederson and morrison were fairly important roster players to both teams.

the one thing i think is not in doubt - lou is going for it this season and will do anything he can to give this team as best a chance as it can have. the way the top two lines are clicking, along with the contributions of the bottom two lines, you just can't waste that.

Mogilny had worn out his welcome in Vancouver and they weren't going anywhere that year, Morrison asked to be traded so he had to go, and Pederson was approaching bust status. He was a project for the Canucks that never worked out. None of these guys were important to the futures of their respective teams before the trade.

[dali]

I

[Cowutopia]

Whoever wrote this poll is totally biased (and wrote the poll totally biased) towards getting a big-name d-man, which is probably why so many people voted that way.

This team is alright. I'd change Greene out for Leach and keep just about everyone. I'd take a top 6 forward who could replace Gionta though. Anyone with some size.

[overtime98]

+1.

Pandolfo was just fine last night.

Pronger and Niedermayer > ANY of the current Devils defensemans.

Hopefully it will be Niedermayer to be the final piece of this team to make the SC run.

Pandolfo's time has passed, JUST LIKE Brylin's time passed him.....

BYE BYE PANDOLFO!

Edited February 17, 2009 by overtime98

[Revan]

I just want to get over the facet that a "name" player brings sucess.

(...)

I don't agree.

When I look at this Devils' team, I think it's the best Lou has put on the ice post-lockout. The chemistry is there, the offense is on fire and they can do it all in the regular season without Marty in goal. The offense looks great, I have no worries when it comes to the goalies, but when I look at the defense... Well, it's been doing its job well. But then I look at the defensive corps of the teams that reached the final in the past couple of years or so. Look at the names: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Niedermayer, Pronger, Gonchar... New Jersey has its stars and veterans on offense, but when it comes to defense, it's pretty no-name, even if it's been doing fine. And our best scoring D-man is Johnny Oduya with 21 pts. so far. Colin White is the only Devils defenseman to ever win the Cup. Salvador is a veteran, but he hasn' really achieved anything yet in his career.

My point is, Jersey's Team could certainly use some more veteran presence on defense. Some big name. It's the same story every spring: we watch our Devils during the regular season and some of us think we're allright. And then, when we are sitting in front of our TVs watching the Stanley Cup final in June, we realise how far from the goal our team was and what kind of play it requires to reach that phase.

That being said, New Jersey has been great so far and I have a really special feeling about this team. I think they can ALMOST win it all this season, but there's an element missing. I don't really expect Lou to make a blockbuster trade, if you ask me. Although if he sees this is the year, he might actually decide to pull the trigger after all, who knows.

However, I don't like the idea of trading Clarkson. What do you guys think a package of: 1st round pick, Clemmensen, Pandolfo, Greene and a prospect (just not Tedenby!) would bring us?

We don't need to trade for rentals like Nieds or Pronger....

Pronger is NOT a rental player - his contract expires after 2009/2010.

[overtime98]

I dont see Niedermayer moving his family AGAIN for a trade back to the east coast... Of course I would love for him to return to NJ but just dont see it realisticly happening.

Pronger is definitly a rental player that someone will probably give Anahiem too much for at pronger stage in his career.....

Devils dont need tomake a big name trade, Although I'd like to see them get Hejduk, just dont see it happening. Devils just need to maybe aquire a depth defenseman for basically nothing. Kind of like the Janssen trade.

Dont be surprised if Pandolfo gets traded. Although, Oduya and Gionta are UFA's Dont see Lou trading players like that.... IMO, we could and should trade Gionta. I see Gionta bolting this offseason and IMO, we could get a decent Defenseman for him right now. or maybe hejduk. Gionta would fit nice in colorado's style....... Hejduk would make that Elias Zubrus line awesome... Liles is making too much and Hejduk is making less than Gionta.

[Triumph]

Based on what?

His last game was actually pretty good, but when you only have one or two games to evaluate in the last 10 or so - what do you want?

A lot of our depth forwards are old, its not going to take much for anyone to miss a few games. Pando is a fine insurance policy.

sigh. i was talking about his january where he had about 3 shots on goal. he's looked okay these last two games.

Pandolfo did NOT look awful last night.

Trust me. If the Devils get Niedermayer or Pronger I bet they'll fit in fine. I understand you don't wanna ruin the chemistry but removing Greene and adding Pronger won't do anything to the teams chemistry. I actually think that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in months.

What D would you rather have in a game 7 against Caps or Bruins: Salvador-Pronger, Martin-Oduya, White-Mottau or Martin-Oduya, White-Mottau, Salvador-Greene? Don't bother answering.

If all it takes is picks and prospects to get Pronger or Niedermayer I think Lou has to do it. Depending on what the picks and prospects are of course.

i won't bother answering because it's a silly question. if new jersey is going to get pronger, anaheim is going to ask for paul martin. and that's where i see the issue - i wouldn't trade paul martin in a deal for chris pronger. the devils don't have the picks and prospects to get a chris pronger, nor tomas kaberle, without basically throwing away their entire future. and with the salary cap and new jersey's financial situation the way it is, they cannot afford to do this - they have too many guys signed to long term deals and need those cheap replacement players.

sundstrom: ^7^ already answered, but morrison was basically a 4th line center at that point and pederson was being scratched routinely. morrison was more than expendable after gomez stole his job, and pederson was passed over by john madden.

[ghdi]

I dont see Niedermayer moving his family AGAIN for a trade back to the east coast... Of course I would love for him to return to NJ but just dont see it realisticly happening.

Pronger is definitly a rental player that someone will probably give Anahiem too much for at pronger stage in his career.....

Niedermayer doesn't need to move his family. He's not contracted long-term. There's no stopping him from getting an apartment locally or even a rental house until the end of the season. He went back to BC most of the summers anyway. His contract is up at the end of the year and he may not even play again next season.

Pronger is contracted for another full year. A rental player is someone who's contract expires at the end of the season he was traded. If Pronger was traded to us now, he would be here for at least one more season. He's not a rental. Marian Hossa was a rental. Tkachuk to the Thrashers was a rental. Ken Klee was a rental.

I dont think either of them end up in NJ, but the reasons for them not happening that some of you idiots are giving are pure reaches. The reason they don't end up here is because Anaheim is likely not going to be selling either of them.

[msweet]

Ducks not trading anybody unless they drop out of the race...and there's 8 teams near the #8 spot, 6 points apart in the West...

which means on March 4th most of those teams will be still be in the race.... which means, Lou's favorite trading partners (the West), will have little they are willing to offer.

[BobCorkum]

sigh. i was talking about his january where he had about 3 shots on goal. he's looked okay these last two games.

i won't bother answering because it's a silly question. if new jersey is going to get pronger, anaheim is going to ask for paul martin. and that's where i see the issue - i wouldn't trade paul martin in a deal for chris pronger. the devils don't have the picks and prospects to get a chris pronger, nor tomas kaberle, without basically throwing away their entire future. and with the salary cap and new jersey's financial situation the way it is, they cannot afford to do this - they have too many guys signed to long term deals and need those cheap replacement players.

sundstrom: ^7^ already answered, but morrison was basically a 4th line center at that point and pederson was being scratched routinely. morrison was more than expendable after gomez stole his job, and pederson was passed over by john madden.

You have NO idea what the Ducks would want for Pronger so don't say it would take Martin to get him like it's some kind of fact.

I think the Devils could pull off a trade and still have enough cheap replacement player options left for the future. Pelley and Cormier are the future 3rd and 4th line centers. Bergfors, Tedenby, Vasuyanov, Zharkov, Halischuk, Vrana, Palmeri are some decent wingers that could make the team in coming years. Salmela, Eckford, Corrente, Burlon, and Fraser and are few good D prospects that could make the jump as well. I'm not saying all or even any of these guys will be players in the league but Lou does have some options for the future as well as a deep draft coming up.

I don't want to mortgage the farm to get a defenseman but the idea is to win and the Devils are on the verge and a solid dman can put them over the top. If the Ducks want Zajac or Martin (who wouldn't want them?) then I'm guessing Lou would try something else. I was just saying that David Clarkson, who is a nice young player, can't get in the way of getting an impact dman for the playoffs.

[MantaRay]

We aren't going to make any major moves.

Lou will stick around by the deadline to see what kind of disposable UFA's are out there for depth. Lou isn't going to pull a Shero and throw away five years on a "name" player.

Lou knows how to exploit the systems without giving up much.

[BobCorkum]

Ducks not trading anybody unless they drop out of the race...and there's 8 teams near the #8 spot, 6 points apart in the West...

which means on March 4th most of those teams will be still be in the race.... which means, Lou's favorite trading partners (the West), will have little they are willing to offer.

Not true. As of right now I believe the Avs, Blues, and Coyotes are done and they know it with the Kings and Preds on the bubble. It's not like these teams are just chasing the 8 seed they are also chasing the teams in 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th as well and that is tough to do. The Avs are 9 points out with 6 teams in front of them. They have no goalie and I think in a couple of weeks they will definitely be sellers. The Coyotes are 7 points out of 8th and every team in the conference outside of the Ducks have games in hand on them. The Blues are in 13th. These teams not only have a huge hill to climb because of all the teams in front of them but they also aren't very good. Dallas, Edmonton, Columbus, and Vancouver are also playing very well right now.

I think Gms hate to quit on their teams but they also have to be realistic for the sake of the teams future. Look for guys like Tkachuk, Morris, Smyth, and Leopold to be shopped.

[MantaRay]

Not true. As of right now I believe the Avs, Blues, and Coyotes are done and they know it with the Kings and Preds on the bubble. It's not like these teams are just chasing the 8 seed they are also chasing the teams in 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th as well and that is tough to do. The Avs are 9 points out with 6 teams in front of them. They have no goalie and I think in a couple of weeks they will definitely be sellers. The Coyotes are 7 points out of 8th and every team in the conference outside of the Ducks have games in hand on them. The Blues are in 13th. These teams not only have a huge hill to climb because of all the teams in front of them but they also aren't very good. Dallas, Edmonton, Columbus, and Vancouver are also playing very well right now.

I think Gms hate to quit on their teams but they also have to be realistic for the sake of the teams future. Look for guys like Tkachuk, Morris, Smyth, and Leopold to be shopped.

The west is pretty wide open: St Louis is making a run for it, the Av's are getting healthy, and the Yotes NEED to make the playoffs. I don't see alot of moves happening, or at the very least NO blockbusters. Atlanta's fleecing of Pittsburgh is a lesson to all the GM's.

[NJDevs26]

The west is pretty wide open: St Louis is making a run for it, the Av's are getting healthy, and the Yotes NEED to make the playoffs. I don't see alot of moves happening, or at the very least NO blockbusters. Atlanta's fleecing of Pittsburgh is a lesson to all the GM's.

The Yotes need to stay solvent before making the playoffs. If any teams need to make the playoffs it's Florida in the East and Columbus in the West. Which is why it confuses me why everyone assumes Bouwmeester will be available. I don't see them dealing Bouwmeester at all unless they get a major talent back - if Tampa wasn't an in-state rival I'd say Vinny.

[MantaRay]

The Yotes need to stay solvent before making the playoffs. If any teams need to make the playoffs it's Florida in the East and Columbus in the West. Which is why it confuses me why everyone assumes Bouwmeester will be available. I don't see them dealing Bouwmeester at all unless they get a major talent back - if Tampa wasn't an in-state rival I'd say Vinny.

Which is why I emphasized the NEED to get in the playoffs. Columbus doesn't need to make the playoffs, they are in year two of a new direction, and the attendance is still very good.

I agree that Bouwmeeter will not be dealt, as Florida will make the playoffs this year and depending on how far they go may alter his decision to leave since it a young and progressing team FINALLY.

[devilsrule33]

Which is why I emphasized the NEED to get in the playoffs. Columbus doesn't need to make the playoffs, they are in year two of a new direction, and the attendance is still very good.

I agree that Bouwmeeter will not be dealt, as Florida will make the playoffs this year and depending on how far they go may alter his decision to leave since it a young and progressing team FINALLY.

Bouwmeester is done in Florida at the end of the year. They have offered him a ton of contracts...the latest at 6.5 a season for 6-7 years and he has no interest. They are in a tough spot, but I think they know keeping him for a one and done in the playoffs and then losing him at the end is not worth it either.

If they trade Bouwmeester, they are going to want warm bodies in return instead of picks and prospects.

[Triumph]

You have NO idea what the Ducks would want for Pronger so don't say it would take Martin to get him like it's some kind of fact.

Pronger is one of the top defenders in the league, and the only Anaheim defenseman signed for next season. Then throw in the fact that Anaheim will almost undoubtedly still be in the playoff race. They're going to want players who they can stick in the lineup NOW. From New Jersey's side, they probably cannot afford Pronger's salary next season - even if they let all 6 UFAs walk (absurd), it'll still be 4 million for their replacements, putting them at 44 million, without even talking about travis zajac's contract which is sure to match jordan staal's or be higher.

I think the Devils could pull off a trade and still have enough cheap replacement player options left for the future. Pelley and Cormier are the future 3rd and 4th line centers. Bergfors, Tedenby, Vasuyanov, Zharkov, Halischuk, Vrana, Palmeri are some decent wingers that could make the team in coming years. Salmela, Eckford, Corrente, Burlon, and Fraser and are few good D prospects that could make the jump as well. I'm not saying all or even any of these guys will be players in the league but Lou does have some options for the future as well as a deep draft coming up.

Pelley is a fringe NHL player who lost his job last season and hasn't regained it - he showed no offensive upside last season and to me his top end is Blair Betts. Cormier is still in junior. Bergfors is in his 4th AHL season when much of his draft class is in the NHL already. Tedenby hasn't been able to get significant ice time on his Swedish men's team. Vasuynov has done very little in the AHL. Palmieiri, after an impressive camp in 2007, didn't have a great one in 2008. Vrana is finished as Devils' property. Salmela is 24. Eckford will be 24 by next season's beginning.

What I'm trying to get across is that while these are some nice players, almost none of them right now project to be top-line players, and few of them are ready for the NHL now besides Bergfors. Corrente, Halischuk, and arguably Zharkov are the best of the bunch, and I'd be upset if New Jersey moved any of them. Regardless, you've got to imagine other teams would be interested and other teams have better prospects than New Jersey right now.

I don't want to mortgage the farm to get a defenseman but the idea is to win and the Devils are on the verge and a solid dman can put them over the top. If the Ducks want Zajac or Martin (who wouldn't want them?) then I'm guessing Lou would try something else. I was just saying that David Clarkson, who is a nice young player, can't get in the way of getting an impact dman for the playoffs.

My point with Clarkson is that I can't imagine a world where Anaheim only gets a 1st, Clarkson, and say, Mattias Tedenby, for Chris Pronger. There'd be more. And I don't see that as prudent for New Jersey. (And we're speaking here of the world where Anaheim is looking to move Pronger, something which I doubt will happen). I agree the Devils are on the verge, but you don't see Lou shaking up his roster significantly when things are going well - although I think Jordan Leopold is vegetable lasagna, I think he'll be the type of acquisition we'll see. Someone to play on the third pairing who can skate a little bit.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Triumph

[Triumph]

Bouwmeester is done in Florida at the end of the year. They have offered him a ton of contracts...the latest at 6.5 a season for 6-7 years and he has no interest. They are in a tough spot, but I think they know keeping him for a one and done in the playoffs and then losing him at the end is not worth it either.

If they trade Bouwmeester, they are going to want warm bodies in return instead of picks and prospects.

yeah but maybe they're not one and done. and who's sending them warm bodies? it doesn't add up - one and done is fine in florida, they haven't been in the playoffs since bill clinton was president.

and who's got the money to sign bouwmeester? 5 teams? i think there's a strong chance bouwmeester stays in florida anyway.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Triumph

[sundstrom]

Mogilny had worn out his welcome in Vancouver and they weren't going anywhere that year, Morrison asked to be traded so he had to go, and Pederson was approaching bust status. He was a project for the Canucks that never worked out. None of these guys were important to the futures of their respective teams before the trade.

sundstrom: ^7^ already answered, but morrison was basically a 4th line center at that point and pederson was being scratched routinely. morrison was more than expendable after gomez stole his job, and pederson was passed over by john madden.

ok, but this isn't pandolfo for miro satan we're talking here? these were still significant roster players.

my point is that i think lou would gamble this year if a questionable deal comes along.

hejduk/leopold for 1st, 2nd, 3rd this year and 3rd next year, bergfors, greene, pandolfo - its a lot of picks to get hejduk who might be excessive but gives the devils an embarassment of riches and puts gionta with madden and rolston - clarkson moves to the 4th line w/ holik and shannahan (rupp will be scratched in the playoffs). plus it would allow for lou to let gionta walk as hejduk takes his place (both in the lineup and in salary cap) next year. and of course, leopold would be an excellent upgrade for the defense - who could conceivably pass both mottau and white on the depth chart.

[ghdi]

If Florida is even sniffing a playoff spot, there is no chance in hell they deal Jay-Bo. In other words, starting tonight they have us and then they have a few more tough games and then a 5 game road trip (with us again), unless they tank it between now and the end of that road trip, Boouwmeester is a Panther after the deadline. He's also said to be liking it more now that they are putting more emphasis on the product. He is not a lock to walk if they make the playoffs.

[ghdi]

We aren't going to make any major moves.

Lou will stick around by the deadline to see what kind of disposable UFA's are out there for depth. Lou isn't going to pull a Shero and throw away five years on a "name" player.

Lou knows how to exploit the systems without giving up much.

Im not advocating for a major move, but we didn't exactly give up the world for Mogilny, and we gave up relatively equal value for Langenbrunner and Nieuwendyk. It is not out of the realm of chance that Lou brings in a higher value guy. It all depends who is in and who is out at the time.

I think we end up with Kaberle or Kubina and we don't get taken to town for either.

[Triumph]

Im not advocating for a major move, but we didn't exactly give up the world for Mogilny, and we gave up relatively equal value for Langenbrunner and Nieuwendyk. It is not out of the realm of chance that Lou brings in a higher value guy. It all depends who is in and who is out at the time.

I think we end up with Kaberle or Kubina and we don't get taken to town for either.

Mogilny cost us Brendan Morrison, a former Hobey Baker winner - there's no way New Jersey has a prospect of his equal in the system. Just because we could afford to trade him for Mogilny doesn't mean he wasn't 'the world'.

sundstrom: i hate that deal from both sides. colorado cannibalizes a solid asset for dubious gain (if hedjuk's cap hit were more onerous i'd think it prudent - colorado could afford to pursue something interesting like the sedins or bouwmeester, but here they're adding on the italian albatross), and new jersey adds a piece it doesn't really need. hedjuk is a 'replacement' for gionta, but at that salary, we again run into the problem of just who is going to play for new jersey next season. you're looking at a team of:

elias-zubrus-hedjuk

parise-zajac-langenbrunner

rolston-?-clarkson

?-?-?

martin-salvador

white-mottau

?-?

brodeur

and you're committed to paying this group around 45 million dollars, without the question marks.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Triumph

[sundstrom]

If Florida is even sniffing a playoff spot, there is no chance in hell they deal Jay-Bo. In other words, starting tonight they have us and then they have a few more tough games and then a 5 game road trip (with us again), unless they tank it between now and the end of that road trip, Boouwmeester is a Panther after the deadline. He's also said to be liking it more now that they are putting more emphasis on the product. He is not a lock to walk if they make the playoffs.

Florida can't risk losing him for nothing - playoffs or not. While he might resign with FL, it would only be if no other team in a better position came up with $6MM+ for him - and there will be about 6 or 7 that would where jay would likely rather be than FL. I put the odds at him in FL next year at about 15%.

They will let everyone know that while they don't want/need to trade him, they will if they get the right offer which must be substantial. should someone provide that deal (and it doesn't even have to be a "knocked over" type deal, i think they'll take it.

sundstrom: i hate that deal from both sides. colorado cannibalizes a solid asset for dubious gain (if hedjuk's cap hit were more onerous i'd think it prudent - colorado could afford to pursue something interesting like the sedins or bouwmeester, but here they're adding on the italian albatross), and new jersey adds a piece it doesn't really need. hedjuk is a 'replacement' for gionta, but at that salary, we again run into the problem of just who is going to play for new jersey next season. you're looking at a team of:

elias-zubrus-hedjuk

parise-zajac-langenbrunner

rolston-?-clarkson

?-?-?

martin-salvador

white-mottau

?-?

brodeur

and you're committed to paying this group around 45 million dollars, without the question marks.

i understand your point but colorado needs major retooling with sakic almost certainly finished and their goaltending in complete shambles. i don't think they make the UFA splash you're suggesting and I think they know it. in fact, their biggest pickup might just be a guy like clemmer w/ a 2 year deal at $1.5MM or so and see if they can get some of this year's magic to rub off.

as for NJ, let's assume the cap stays the same - i assure you it's not going down. if anything, the players will give up full escrow, but it ain't goin down. so that's $9MM or so for 7 guys.

the 7 guys who are there now are:

madden

holik

rupp

shanahan/pandolfo (for this excerise, we'll consider them one guy)

oduya

greene

weekes

i want to keep oduya - lets give him $3MM (remember, many of us agree he's worth more to the devils than any other team - unless someone does something stupid like the Jeff Finger deal).

i wanted to punt madden until his resurgence the last couple of weeks but i'd still rather take the branch rickey thinking and get rid of a guy a year early than late.

marty's backup is making $750k, no matter who he is.

corrente or eckford can take greene's spot

so now there's about $5MM to fillout a 4th line and a 3rd line center. there's plenty of flotsam and jetsam around to do that.

edit: regardless, the idea is stacking the team for THIS year. In my mind, only the Caps could stop the Devils from reaching the Cup finals unless they just get unlucky - we've had this conversation (the luck one) about 100 times but this team is so deep and built for playoff success.

Edited February 17, 2009 by sundstrom