MadDog2020 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 But yet this team and it's defense (and coaching too) seemed to play a more ideal role for their talents when he was not the goaltender for the team....I can't tell if that's because of the goaltender or our coach panicked and reverted to chicken sh!t hockey when the playoffs came around I think it was a combimation of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Most goalies win a Cup with a fantastic D in front of them. So how come Marty's the only one who ever gets called out on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 How's this to end the argument. Marty is the best ever, because I'm a Devils fan before I'm a hockey fan. I don't care what anyone thinks, but I enjoy going to the rink every other night to watch the best goalie ever play. Tell me I'm wrong, go ahead. you're too young to have seen Patrick Roy in his prime you can be a fan of your team and acknowledge other players as better one has nothing to do with the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CADevilsFan Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Thank God I wrote "Most"...................... Sweet Jesus Jimmy, that's a disgusting Avatar. I can't even read your posts, it's like a terrible train wreck, I can't look away from the picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hit the post Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Sorry to say,but Martys Cup winning Day's are behind Him,Atleast with this Bunch.I'm just Glad I was there to see him win 2 at Home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hit the post Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Sorry to say,but Martys Cup winning Day's are behind Him,Atleast with this Bunch.I'm just Glad I was there to see him win 2 at Home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEWHistory Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Does MB30 have to win another Stanley Cup as a New Jersey Devil b4 he retires? Also, does he have to win the Conn Smythe? Nah.... although the Conn Smythe would be one of those tasty frosting flowers on a hockey cake career..... not one of those cheesy store bought cakes, I mean a really good one like from one of those Italian bakeries we have here in Jersey. Have I gone too far with this metaphor? Mmmmmmm..... I'm hungry now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 you're too young to have seen Patrick Roy in his prime And you're too young to have seen George Vezina or Terry Sawchuk at their prime. Look, there are always great players you'll miss. And while yes, it is important to acknowledge other guys and not live in a fantasy world where all the great players are Devils, it doesn't mean you can't be subjective. Hell, as a fan you GOTTA be subjective and have your opinion, there's no other way around. You have to come down to earth sometimes, eg. when writing an article. If I was a journalist, I wouldn't call Marty THE best goalie ever in my articles, I would say one of the best. Because it's not something you can tell definitely. That's why I'm always pissed off when I hear about Messier being the best leader ever from the media. But when talking to my friends, other Devils fans etc. I can tell them my opinion and I can call Marty whatever I want because that's what I think about him. And do I think he is the best ever? First of all, I think all this deciding on the best goalie ever stuff is bullsh!t. To really be able to tell who was the best ever, one would have to watch all the best goalie of all time A LOT and spend a lot of time learning about them and stuff. Plus, it's pretty much impossible to compare modern goalies to guys who played, let's say, 80 years ago. Having said that, people have their opinion and if they really want to call that stuff, we can't do much about it, let them compare by stats, highlights and anything they want. So, I gotta admit the last few playoff runs brought me down to earth a little bit. IMO Marty has to make another run deep into the postseason to prove he can be dominating at a late age. He is a machine during the regular season and there's no goalie I would take over him for these 82 games. But when it comes to the playoffs, I agree with the statement that he should at least go the conference finals again to prove himself and it would definitely help if he won another Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) And you're too young to have seen George Vezina or Terry Sawchuk at their prime. Look, there are always great players you'll miss. And while yes, it is important to acknowledge other guys and not live in a fantasy world where all the great players are Devils, it doesn't mean you can't be subjective. Hell, as a fan you GOTTA be subjective and have your opinion, there's no other way around. You have to come down to earth sometimes, eg. when writing an article. If I was a journalist, I wouldn't call Marty THE best goalie ever in my articles, I would say one of the best. Because it's not something you can tell definitely. That's why I'm always pissed off when I hear about Messier being the best leader ever from the media. But when talking to my friends, other Devils fans etc. I can tell them my opinion and I can call Marty whatever I want because that's what I think about him. And do I think he is the best ever? First of all, I think all this deciding on the best goalie ever stuff is bullsh!t. To really be able to tell who was the best ever, one would have to watch all the best goalie of all time A LOT and spend a lot of time learning about them and stuff. Plus, it's pretty much impossible to compare modern goalies to guys who played, let's say, 80 years ago. Having said that, people have their opinion and if they really want to call that stuff, we can't do much about it, let them compare by stats, highlights and anything they want. So, I gotta admit the last few playoff runs brought me down to earth a little bit. IMO Marty has to make another run deep into the postseason to prove he can be dominating at a late age. He is a machine during the regular season and there's no goalie I would take over him for these 82 games. But when it comes to the playoffs, I agree with the statement that he should at least go the conference finals again to prove himself and it would definitely help if he won another Cup. I agree with a lot of this. I wouldn't go quite so far as to say Marty has to "prove himself"...he's done that, getting to four SC Finals (missing a 5th by double OT) and winning three. I do agree that getting to an ECF and playing well couldn't hurt. Guys like Andrew will tell you that, because he might have a couple of videos of older games and players (like Sawchuk), he can definitively tell you who's better than this guy, that guy, in NHL history. It does get tricky, trying to compare guys across eras, and what about guys like Tretiak, who never even played in the NHL? I can only go by what I've seen. For me I have to put Roy first, based on the '93 Cup and the fact that he outplayed Marty in the '01 Finals, not to mention the sheer amount of playoff wins. Lately I've been waffling between Brodeur and Hasek for #2 among guys I saw...Hasek was just so damn good at stopping the puck. From '93-'94 to '98-'99, his save percentages were .930, .930, .920, .930, .932, and .937. He won 389 games despite not becoming a full-time NHL starter until he was 28. Yeah, he could be a prick (as could Roy), and no one plays the puck like Marty, but those save%s are mindblowing. BTW, for their careers Roy is at .910 (it's trickier with Roy because he played in both the live and dead puck eras), Marty's at .914, and Hasek's at .922. Edited May 12, 2009 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrthemike Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Marty may go down as one of the best regular-season goalies ever, but the playoffs are increasingly tarnishing his image as an overall great. He hasn't won a Cup since Stevens, Niedermayer and Daneyko all left, and like it or not, that will be one of the first points people will bring up when they argue against him being the best of all time. He needs to win one more before he retires in order to shake the "he's a product of the system" perception. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsonnabend Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 But yet this team and it's defense (and coaching too) seemed to play a more ideal role for their talents when he was not the goaltender for the team.... I think that's absolutely true, but I can't quite figure out why that is. Any thoughts? Perhaps Brodeur's stick handling throws a wrench in the works. I know when I'm skating, I have a tough time adjusting from a less mobile goalie (which are many in rec leagues) to more agile, puck handling ones. - Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 So how come Marty's the only one who ever gets called out on it? Because most people hate the Devils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Perhaps Brodeur's stick handling throws a wrench in the works. I know when I'm skating, I have a tough time adjusting from a less mobile goalie (which are many in rec leagues) to more agile, puck handling ones. His holiness played the puck far less then he did in years before and why would an aggro-puck getting goalie make you play MORE conservative anyway?? I'd think you'd want to play it safer for the guy you fear every shot is going in.... oh... wait... they did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 You don't have to be a dick to make a point. And that's my biased, biggoted, devils-obssessed opinion, self-acknowledged. I love this team, I love MArty, so I think he's the best. And who are you to tell me otherwise? It has to be pretty biased, because there's no bigger Devils fan then me and I can tell you- Marty is not the best of all-time. He's in the top 3- but not the best. Roy was better with the chips down, plain and simple. Look no further then his 1993 playoff performance where he won 10 OT games. That's 10. He didn't lose any. It is the single greatest playoff performance by any player, ever. He simply refused to lose. And it pains me to say it, but he refused to lose in 2001 too. 1 goal in games 6 and 7... and his THIRD Conn Smythe. Who the hell has THREE freakin' Conn Smythe Trophies? I would love to say Marty is the best who's ever lived... but he's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 You don't have to be a dick to make a point. And that's my biased, biggoted, devils-obssessed opinion, self-acknowledged. I love this team, I love MArty, so I think he's the best. And who are you to tell me otherwise? Consistent? I'd say the same thing to anyone else (though it would be silly to make an age joke to a 45 year old, but the context is the same), it never gets old to see people laugh till the SAM joke hits them though I wasn't even aiming to be a prick I was counter-pointing... if you want to call a regular season stats compiler as your savior, go for it! If you ask me what goalie I want in net when the money's on the line, which is what the debate was... it's PR33, SM40 , then everyone else! PS, you spelled bigoted and obsessed wrong I'll assume the captial A is cause you think he should have a letter on his jersey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Consistent?I'd say the same thing to anyone else (though it would be silly to make an age joke to a 45 year old, but the context is the same), it never gets old to see people laugh till the SAM joke hits them though I wasn't even aiming to be a prick I was counter-pointing... if you want to call a regular season stats compiler as your savior, go for it! If you ask me what goalie I want in net when the money's on the line, which is what the debate was... it's PR33, SM40 , then everyone else! PS, you spelled bigoted and obsessed wrong I'll assume the captial A is cause you think he should have a letter on his jersey Bingo. You'd have to be nuts to choose anyone but Roy for one game for all the marbles. It's not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Bingo. You'd have to be nuts to choose anyone but Roy for one game for all the marbles. It's not even close. Didn't Roy have a losing record for his career in Game 7's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucifersDog Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I can't believe that people are debating Roy vs Brodeur. Marty isn't in the same class. Roy is the best ever as of today. Marty is golfing because of his poor performance in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) I can't believe that people are debating Roy vs Brodeur. Marty isn't in the same class. Roy is the best ever as of today. Marty is golfing because of his poor performance in the playoffs. If you were respnding to me, I wasn't arguing Roy vs Brodeur. I was responding to to the previous post that said you would have to be nuts to take anyone other than Roy in a one game for all the marbles and that it wasn't even close when the guy has has a couple of flame-outs himself. Also, I think someone named Hasek would have something to say about that (see: Nagano '96 Semifinal vs Canada or 2002 WCF Detriot vs Colorado) Edited May 13, 2009 by PhillyDevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Didn't Roy have a losing record for his career in Game 7's? give mb time... he's working his way up THAT list fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 give mb time... he's working his way up THAT list fast Marty's currently 5-4 in Game 7's...so he'd need another couple years at least to have a sub .500 record. The Game 7 record is a big argument against PR33 for the 'one game', probably the only one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Marty's currently 5-4 in Game 7's...so he'd need another couple years at least to have a sub .500 record. The Game 7 record is a big argument against PR33 for the 'one game', probably the only one though. he's gotta be worse then that 1994... 1-1 (win buf lose nyr) 1995... none 1996... none 1997... none 1998... 0-1 1999... 0-1 2000... 1-0 2001... 1-1 2002.... none 2003.... 2-0 2004... none 2006... none 2007... none 2008... none 2009... 0-1 So he's 5-5 actually wasn't he the goalie for game 5 in 1992-93, against the Rangers too.... that was back when it was a 5 game series but that's before my time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatansDevils Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) he's gotta be worse then that1994... 1-1 (win buf lose nyr) 1995... none 1996... none 1997... none 1998... 0-1 1999... 0-1 2000... 1-0 2001... 1-1 2002.... none 2003.... 2-0 2004... none 2006... none 2007... none 2008... none 2009... 0-1 So he's 5-5 actually wasn't he the goalie for game 5 in 1992-93, against the Rangers too.... that was back when it was a 5 game series but that's before my time No Crasher Brodeur is 5-4 in Game 7's. In 1992-93 it was Terreri. Brodeur only played in that Game 5 vs. the Rangers. It was a seven game series in the 1992 PDSF. Games 1 and 2 it was Terreri and Vanbiesbrook. Games 3 and 4 it was Terreri and Richter. Game 5 was Brodeur and Richter. Game 6 was Terreri and Richter. Game 7 was Terreri and Vanbiesbrook Edited May 13, 2009 by SatansDevils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 '98 was a 6 game series against Ottawa, otherwise the numbers are correct so it's 5-4 since '94-95 '92-93 was a seven-game series...I don't remember if he got a decision or not, it might have been Game 5 he came in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatansDevils Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 In Game 5 Brodeur got the 8-5 loss in the 92-93 PDSF. Brodeur is 5-4 in Game 7's. 1994 ECQF - Won Game 7 over Buffalo. (1-0) 1994 ECF - Lost Game 7 to the Rangers. (1-1) 1999 ECQF - Lost Game 7 to Pittsburgh. (1-2) 2000 ECF - Won Game 7 over Philadelphia. (2-2) 2001 ECSF - Won Game 7 over Toronto. (3-2) 2001 SCF - Lost Game 7 to Colorado. (3-3) 2003 ECF - Won Game 7 over Ottawa. (4-3) 2003 SCF - Won Game 7 over Anaheim. (5-3) 2009 ECQF - Lost Game 7 to Carolina. (5-4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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