How We Got Here

[Beezer34]

i honestly forgot hes been with the devils for that long going all the way back to the macleandays

 

..yup. Coached alongside: John MacLean, Dave Barr, Jacques Lemaire, Mike Foligno, Scott Stevens, Larry Robinson, Pete DeBoer, and Lou Lamoriello. Solid coaching stability\chemistry for an Assistant to work with in 2½ seasons.. but, #OatesSucks

 

Look at how much the Caps improved post-Oates.

 

..during the 1½ seasons as the Head Coach of Washington, Oates made the playoffs as many times as DeBoer heading into Year 8. But I guess only Cousin Eddie gets the mulligan(s) around here.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Beezer34

[NewarkDevil5]

More saying that it's really difficult to start sifting through alternative timelines in some attempt to come up with one that had the Devils continuing to be playoff contenders...so many variables once we cherry-pick one domino.  Yeah, Parise over Kovy likely would've been the better long-term fit here, but like Tri says (assuming that Kovy would've gone to LA and Lou would've then decided to give Parise a large chunk of would-be Kovy money, which in itself is probably too much speculation, in that I'd be assuming Parise would've decided not to forgo becoming a UFA), the Devils might still not be terribly good.  Some of the oldsters would still be here, and maybe Schneider isn't. 

 

This would be way easier with a TARDIS..........

[msweet]

Niedermayer leaving started the downfall, from which we never recovered.

[Onddeck]

I would have to say our recent drafting. Besides Larsson, our drafting has been pretty awful.

So then, when unexpected events like Parise and Kovalchuk happen, the recent drafting is really exposed due to the team being very, very thin at forwards

[Triumph]

The amount of disrespect that Adam Oates' tenure gets around these parts, is down right puzzling. His first season under J-Mac in 2010 is probably the best you're going to get out of an Assistant for the first half of that year.. and then they go on a .622 winning percentage to close out 2011 with Lemaire. They win the Conference on a magical SCF run in 2012.. and then, Oates walks into a pretty sh!tty situation December 2014, and (with the help of Stevens) ends 2015 with a 20-19-6 record as Co-Head Coach.

 

..not sure where this contempt comes from, for a guy that did his best with the cards he was dealt.

 

Oates is a fine assistant.  I believe the players when they say that he makes terrific micro-adjustments to their game, about where to position themselves in certain situations and where to use your stick and so on.  Adam Oates was a great player who was not blessed with a great shot or great speed.  The problem is that Oates's system, whatever it was, was just abominable - the Devils just got stomped on after DeBoer left, they immediately started generating fewer shots and giving up more, they never drew power plays in part because of how conservative they played, and Oates went to a 1-3-1 PP system which was not at all conducive to the talent NJ had, and while that scored goals, it was only by the grace of players like Jordin Tootoo succeeding that they did.  The team was a disaster bailed out only by the goaltending of Cory Schneider, who was absolutely amazing night after night in front of a team that was both boring and bad.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Triumph

[themightyall]

Zajac got to play with Jagr in 2013-14.  Jagr is basically most of what Parise was, in terms of his ability to control the play in the offensive zone.  The trouble is that A: Jamie Langenbrunner is a much player than he is given credit for being and B:  Dainius Zubrus is obviously terrible and washed up at this point in his career.   The Devils with Parise are still on a bad road with old players and hoping to sign enough average FAs to compete every year - they just wouldn't've bottomed out, and maybe they make the playoffs one of the years they missed (of course they never should've missed in 13-14 but that's Brodeur and the shootout talking).  They're still lacking a dynamic center, and they're still without a 2nd line.

 

The Devils didn't have 2 choices about who to draft in 2008, they had lots.  While Carlson has developed into quite a fine defenseman, I doubt that he changes how NJ drafted in the years to come, but again we can't know - we can't know where NJ ultimately finishes in 2010-11 if Carlson's on the team, and so on.

 

This isn't the first time I saw you say this but I don't understand how you can make it.  If you are just talking about controlling the play as in keeping the puck around the boards for more time, maybe.  But Parise is no slouch at that and is better at everything else than a 42 year old Jagr.

 

The official moment was when Kovy left.  No stars to left the team and not enough to trade to get that since stars are always locked up long term.  My troll answer would be the moment the owners bought the team.  They're probably sending out scouts to see some 10 year old's Fenwick so we can tank for him the next 8 years.

[devils102]

If people are going as far back as Niedermayer, than I would even say the loss of Scott Stevens' to concussion problems was the beginning of the end. I don't know that we really replaced that leadership until Parise was captain, although the team had some good years with Langenbrunner wearing the C.

 

Who knows if Stevens got out at just the right time before the new rules were in effect. But I would have loved to see him in 05-06 when I feel like we squandered our best chance to win since '03 (excluding '12 of course). Remember how red-hot the Devils were going into that Carolina series? Elias alone had more goals than the entire Rangers team in the first round. We just choked against the Canes. Would have loved to have Stevens in that series. Niedermayer as well. But he never seemed to have enough intensity to replace Stevens as captain.

 

More recently though I would say the loss of Parise prevented us from continuing as a relevant team in the NHL. I don't think we'd be contenders with him on the ice, but definitely a playoff team.

Edited June 11, 2015 by devils102

[Triumph]

This isn't the first time I saw you say this but I don't understand how you can make it.  If you are just talking about controlling the play as in keeping the puck around the boards for more time, maybe.  But Parise is no slouch at that and is better at everything else than a 42 year old Jagr.

 

The official moment was when Kovy left.  No stars to left the team and not enough to trade to get that since stars are always locked up long term.  My troll answer would be the moment the owners bought the team.  They're probably sending out scouts to see some 10 year old's Fenwick so we can tank for him the next 8 years.

 

Parise is excellent along the boards, he's one of the top players in the league at winning 1 on 1 battles, but Jagr is generationally good along the boards.  I doubt I've ever seen a better player at controlling pucks along the wall and finding open space from there.  I can't imagine I ever will see one.

 

Since his return to the NHL in 2011, Jagr has 1.27 assists/60 minutes at even strength - Parise is at 1.03.   Jagr is at .65 goals per 60, Parise is at .83.  Add it all up and Jagr is outscoring Parise at even strength on a per 60 minute basis.  If you want to compare their teammates, feel free, I doubt very much that Parise played as much time with a player as mediocre as 2013-14 Dainius Zubrus.  Then throw in the fact that Jagr's territorial stats also hold up despite playing on worse teams, and there's a really solid case for him being almost as good.  I prefer goal scoring to assists so I'd take Parise at 5 on 5, but it was awfully close.  People do not realize how good Jagr still is, and I don't care how old he is, he was a tremendous hockey player when he played for the Devils.

 

Yes, Mr. or Ms. Vanderbeek, it is a shame that new owners bought the team and have a brain and are solvent and don't give out 15 year contracts to Russian superstars in a desperate bid to recoup the money they had tied up in a corrupt bank.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Triumph

[themightyall]

Parise is excellent along the boards, he's one of the top players in the league at winning 1 on 1 battles, but Jagr is generationally good along the boards.  I doubt I've ever seen a better player at controlling pucks along the wall and finding open space from there.  I can't imagine I ever will see one.

 

Since his return to the NHL in 2011, Jagr has 1.27 assists/60 minutes at even strength - Parise is at 1.03.   Jagr is at .65 goals per 60, Parise is at .83.  Add it all up and Jagr is outscoring Parise at even strength on a per 60 minute basis.  If you want to compare their teammates, feel free, I doubt very much that Parise played as much time with a player as mediocre as 2013-14 Dainius Zubrus.  Then throw in the fact that Jagr's territorial stats also hold up despite playing on worse teams, and there's a really solid case for him being almost as good.  I prefer goal scoring to assists so I'd take Parise at 5 on 5, but it was awfully close.  People do not realize how good Jagr still is, and I don't care how old he is, he was a tremendous hockey player when he played for the Devils.

 

Yes, Mr. or Ms. Vanderbeek, it is a shame that new owners bought the team and have a brain and are solvent and don't give out 15 year contracts to Russian superstars in a desperate bid to recoup the money they had tied up in a corrupt bank.

 

I'm not saying that Jagr is bad and he knows how to do what he does well.  But if you are going to argue a couple hundredths of a point/60 when Jagr was also playing with high point producers like Giroux as well, feel free.  Even after all your numbers, you just said you'd take Parise when earlier you said Jagr was better.  No one is saying Jagr was bad, you said he was better than Parise.  If you have a number for that, I'll show you a number that is misleading people's thoughts.

 

Ah, even when I say that I'm being a troll because I don't like the owners and you still get pissy.  The new owners nosing in on hockey operations is worse than an owner's money issues to me.  You know why?  The latter has nothing to do with the product on the ice.  You can pick these owners, I'll pick Dr. McMullen.

[sundstrom]

 The new owners nosing in on hockey operations is worse than an owner's money issues to me.  You know why?  The latter has nothing to do with the product on the ice.  You can pick these owners, I'll pick Dr. McMullen.

 

wut?

 

McMullen had money and didn't mess around after Lou hired Lemaire. Before that, Lou was one more bad season away from getting canned.

 

VBK didn't have money and messed around - big time. He was a fan with a bank account filled with smoke and mirrors. That's why the Devils were on double secret probation and could not retain parise. it was also this owner that pushed the ridiculous kovalchuk extension.

 

I will give him credit that he helped get Prudential Center over the goalline (with Ray Chambers' money of course) and for that I am truly appreciative. And it was fun having an owner that truly loved the team like a fan. But just about everything else was woof city.

 

Harris and Blitzer have money and have gotten rid of You Suck!

 

Of course that's not technically true. O'Neill and Weber are pretty much leading the charge with everything going on around the arena. Where Harris and Blitzer have put themselves into "hockey ops" is to say, we're not going to stand for an old way of thinking that has led to 1 playoff appearance in 5 years and a team that at best is bad and running in place. heaven forbid!

[Triumph]

I'm not saying that Jagr is bad and he knows how to do what he does well.  But if you are going to argue a couple hundredths of a point/60 when Jagr was also playing with high point producers like Giroux as well, feel free.  Even after all your numbers, you just said you'd take Parise when earlier you said Jagr was better.  No one is saying Jagr was bad, you said he was better than Parise.  If you have a number for that, I'll show you a number that is misleading people's thoughts.

 

Ah, even when I say that I'm being a troll because I don't like the owners and you still get pissy.  The new owners nosing in on hockey operations is worse than an owner's money issues to me.  You know why?  The latter has nothing to do with the product on the ice.  You can pick these owners, I'll pick Dr. McMullen.

 

Good lord.  I never said Jagr was better than Parise.  Where did I say that?  I said Jagr was 'most of what Parise was', and that's borne out by the numbers - he produced similar amounts of points and drove play to a similar extent.  Yes, he had Giroux as a linemate for one season, but Parise had Kovalchuk.  People don't realize how good Jagr was because the Devils were too busy honoring Martin Brodeur's legacy to bother to help Jagr get to the playoffs. 

 

Dr. McMullen, who nearly moved the franchise to Nashville and got booed at his own Stanley Cup parade, is considered a better owner by you than these new owners. The Devils were run like a small-market team when McMullen was the owner.  The idea that an owner's money issues has nothing to do with what happens on the ice is beyond ludicrous.  Now granted the NHL was fronting Vanderbeek money to keep the franchise afloat, but a better owner would've had a better offer for Parise.  The franchise is so much better off with the new owners.  

[themightyall]

Owners are allowed to make changes after giving sufficient leash.  Dr. McMullen could've fired Lou if he had a bad season, although that is hypothetical.  But Lou didn't, so he didn't, the rest is history.  But you don't hire a guy (Shero) and already micromanage him.  Time will tell just like it did with McMullen.  If I'm wrong and they bring a championship, then I'm wrong.  Wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last.  But that's my opinion of these owners with the information I have right now.

 

So the Devils offering a contract to Parise was just a ruse?  VBK endangered the team, so he was a bad owner.  But given the choice of that and a meddlesome owner, I'd rather have VBK.  Again, my assumption with the owners and time will tell.

 

 

Good lord.  I never said Jagr was better than Parise.  Where did I say that?  I said Jagr was 'most of what Parise was', and that's borne out by the numbers - he produced similar amounts of points and drove play to a similar extent.  Yes, he had Giroux as a linemate for one season, but Parise had Kovalchuk.  People don't realize how good Jagr was because the Devils were too busy honoring Martin Brodeur's legacy to bother to help Jagr get to the playoffs. 

 

Dr. McMullen, who nearly moved the franchise to Nashville and got booed at his own Stanley Cup parade, is considered a better owner by you than these new owners. The Devils were run like a small-market team when McMullen was the owner.  The idea that an owner's money issues has nothing to do with what happens on the ice is beyond ludicrous.  Now granted the NHL was fronting Vanderbeek money to keep the franchise afloat, but a better owner would've had a better offer for Parise.  The franchise is so much better off with the new owners.  

 

I'll admit I'm wrong, just like this.  I reread your post and you didn't say Jagr was better in the offensive zone; you are correct.  I'd still say that anyone that knows hockey would still want Parise 10/10 times.  I read too much into it.  How much time are you going to give these owners until we can hear who's wrong about that?

 

Meddling with the hockey operations is far more direct with affecting the on ice product than how much money the owners have.  If you don't think so, THAT is ludicrous.  And Parise himself said that money wasn't an issue.  So this hypothetical is just trying to flesh out an argument you don't have in the first place.  These owners are tearing this team apart to build it up again.  I just hope they know what they are doing.

Edited June 11, 2015 by themightyall

[Triumph]

Meddling with the hockey operations?  Vanderbeek didn't have a second job for most of his tenure as Devils' owner.  Do you think he never met with Lou to discuss the hockey side of the business?  The Devils' owners not only have their original jobs, they own another sports franchise, and they're supposedly trying to buy another one.    Do you think that Lou Lamoriello was the person who offered Ilya Kovalchuk a 17 year contract?  We've been over this - while Lou might've wanted to keep Kovalchuk, that contract is clearly management's idea, and Lou said as much at the press conference.  That's more meddling than these owners will ever do in the affairs of the franchise.

 

You are extrapolating from one meeting that TG reported on, that TG may not have even bothered to report on years ago, that they are meddling, because you have some weird distrust of them that's borne out of nothing.

 

Haha, yeah Parise said money wasn't an issue.  Funny that he went for the biggest contract.  Minnesota offered him way more money.  The Devils could not match the money offered by Minnesota even if they had wanted to.

 

I'm going to give the owners 5 years, because the Devils are in the toilet right now - as I've said many times, no franchise in the NHL right now would trade their entire roster, prospects, and draft picks for NJ's.  They are 30th in total assets.  They are going to need innovative methods to get them back to the top.

 

Anyway this thread isn't about the new owners, so feel free to make a new thread where you invent lots of stuff based on one TG report.

[themightyall]

Again, never said Vanderbeek was a saint.  Everyone else wants to just attribute him to me so I have to defend him when I'm attacking these owners.  After he was brought up, I did say I would rather have him than these guys, but it's because he was largely (not fully), hands off.  That's hardly me bringing him up though.  Straw man much?

 

I am basing it off of the way they've been running a franchise for the past 5 years I follow in the 76ers.  I'm basing it off of that TG report.  I'm basing it off of quotes from the owners themselves.  Or do you want to just want to attribute more things to me?  Again, straw man much?

 

Is that why Parise said specifically that he received other offers that were over 100MM but didn't want that stigma and wanted the same contract as Suter and wanted to go back home?  But no, you want to make it the money because you want to attribute Vanderbeek to me.

 

Ok, so 5 years, just like the 6ers are 5 years in.  I just don't want to hear, "Well, Shero did this" or "Lou was still President" or "They dealt with the same scouting department" or any other self sealing argument one could make up.  The buck stops at the owners, agreed?

 

I suggest next time you don't start a huge debate over a throw away comment that was tongue in cheek with truth behind it.  But I'm sure you just salivated at all the ways you could attribute things to me and then argue them, then complain about how this wasn't the thread for it.  I just attributed you thinking that Jagr was better than Parise and I admitted my mistake.  Are Mods automatically absolved of having to do mea culpas or is it just you?

Edited June 11, 2015 by themightyall

[Derlique]

Again, never said Vanderbeek was a saint.  Everyone else wants to just attribute him to me so I have to defend him when I'm attacking these owners.  After he was brought up, I did say I would rather have him than these guys, but it's because he was largely (not fully), hands off.  That's hardly me bringing him up though.  Straw man much?

 

I am basing it off of the way they've been running a franchise for the past 5 years I follow in the 76ers.  I'm basing it off of that TG report.  I'm basing it off of quotes from the owners themselves.  Or do you want to just want to attribute more things to me?  Again, straw man much?

 

Is that why Parise said specifically that he received other offers that were over 100MM but didn't want that stigma and wanted the same contract as Suter and wanted to go back home?  But no, you want to make it the money because you want to attribute Vanderbeek to me.

 

Ok, so 5 years, just like the 6ers are 5 years in.  I just don't want to hear, "Well, Shero did this" or "Lou was still President" or "They dealt with the same scouting department" or any other self sealing argument one could make up.  The buck stops at the owners, agreed?

 

I suggest next time you don't start a huge debate over a throw away comment that was tongue in cheek with truth behind it.  But I'm sure you just salivated at all the ways you could attribute things to me and then argue them, then complain about how this wasn't the thread for it.  I just attributed you thinking that Jagr was better than Parise and I admitted my mistake.  Are Mods automatically absolved of having to do mea culpas or is it just you?

How was JVB hands off when he forced Lou to retain Kovalchuk? That cost us (probably) Parise, a worst first rounder, a third round pick, cash, a cap recapture penalty, etc.

 

I mean, the hate for the new owners really boggles my mind. What's the worst on-ice change under their watch? Adding an analytics department? They did us a favor by getting rid of Lou based on his comments. Saying the team is two-top six forwards away from competing was seriously delusional and could've really set us back further than we are. Imagine trading this #6 pick for a late 20s forward like Kessel, or even a a couple of valuable assets for Sharp. That would've killed our cap situation and stuck us with two regressing stars.

[Jerzey]

How was JVB hands off when he forced Lou to retain Kovalchuk? That cost us (probably) Parise, a worst first rounder, a third round pick, cash, a cap recapture penalty, etc.

 

I mean, the hate for the new owners really boggles my mind. What's the worst on-ice change under their watch? Adding an analytics department? They did us a favor by getting rid of Lou based on his comments. Saying the team is two-top six forwards away from competing was seriously delusional and could've really set us back further than we are. Imagine trading this #6 pick for a late 20s forward like Kessel, or even a a couple of valuable assets for Sharp. That would've killed our cap situation and stuck us with two regressing stars.

 

Makes you wonder if trading the 6th + for Kessel was actually in Lou's plans, and why the owners made the GM change. And also why they are now demanding a ROI.

[themightyall]

How was JVB hands off when he forced Lou to retain Kovalchuk? That cost us (probably) Parise, a worst first rounder, a third round pick, cash, a cap recapture penalty, etc.

 

I mean, the hate for the new owners really boggles my mind. What's the worst on-ice change under their watch? Adding an analytics department? They did us a favor by getting rid of Lou based on his comments. Saying the team is two-top six forwards away from competing was seriously delusional and could've really set us back further than we are. Imagine trading this #6 pick for a late 20s forward like Kessel, or even a a couple of valuable assets for Sharp. That would've killed our cap situation and stuck us with two regressing stars.

 

I'm really done with this.  You guys invent realities of how Vanderbeek lost Parise for us or that I am saying he was a great owner.  How about you argue points that I actually assert like these owners don't deserve all of this devotion.  This dedication for the owners is boggling to me.  That's all I'm trying to say, but you guys have nothing to really point to except about Vanderbeek's faults.  I want to talk about the owners and what they do.  They make an analytics department, that's their claim to fame?  Toronto did the same thing and a bunch of other teams for that matter.  You guys have been throwing pot shots at Lou for his last 5 years with no alternatives to offer.  Did I say you'd guys would prefer Max McNab?  No.  You just like straw manning me with owners and trades I've never proposed so you can have something to point at when these owners have done nothing to really invoke this devotion.

 

Go ahead and put your faith bean counters to make a viable NHL team.  Tri talks about me using one post from TG, but you guys are just obsessed with this 2 top 6 forwards away comment from Lou too.  Jeez!  One comment.  Did you see Lou trading picks to pick 2 rentals up last year?  It's just Louspeak, take it with a grain of salt.  You guys might want to do a better job in facilitating real discussion rather than trolling all differing opinions.

[Jerzey]

I'm really done with this.  You guys invent realities of how Vanderbeek lost Parise for us or that I am saying he was a great owner.  How about you argue points that I actually assert like these owners don't deserve all of this devotion.  This dedication for the owners is boggling to me.  That's all I'm trying to say, but you guys have nothing to really point to except about Vanderbeek's faults.  I want to talk about the owners and what they do.  They make an analytics department, that's their claim to fame?  Toronto did the same thing and a bunch of other teams for that matter.  You guys have been throwing pot shots at Lou for his last 5 years with no alternatives to offer.  Did I say you'd guys would prefer Max McNab?  No.  You just like straw manning me with owners and trades I've never proposed so you can have something to point at when these owners have done nothing to really invoke this devotion.

 

Go ahead and put your faith bean counters to make a viable NHL team.  Tri talks about me using one post from TG, but you guys are just obsessed with this 2 top 6 forwards away comment from Lou too.  Jeez!  One comment.  Did you see Lou trading picks to pick 2 rentals up last year?  It's just Louspeak, take it with a grain of salt.  You guys might want to do a better job in facilitating real discussion rather than trolling all differing opinions.

 

They got us out of debt, brought in all kinds of new sponsors, an anylitics team, 3D projection mapping, and want to make sure all of the hockey moves being made financially make sense. I'm not really sure what anyone has to dislike about what they've done so far besides the people who really like yelling "You Suck".

[Triumph]

Again, never said Vanderbeek was a saint.  Everyone else wants to just attribute him to me so I have to defend him when I'm attacking these owners.  After he was brought up, I did say I would rather have him than these guys, but it's because he was largely (not fully), hands off.  That's hardly me bringing him up though.  Straw man much?

 

I am basing it off of the way they've been running a franchise for the past 5 years I follow in the 76ers.  I'm basing it off of that TG report.  I'm basing it off of quotes from the owners themselves.  Or do you want to just want to attribute more things to me?  Again, straw man much?

 

Is that why Parise said specifically that he received other offers that were over 100MM but didn't want that stigma and wanted the same contract as Suter and wanted to go back home?  But no, you want to make it the money because you want to attribute Vanderbeek to me.

 

Ok, so 5 years, just like the 6ers are 5 years in.  I just don't want to hear, "Well, Shero did this" or "Lou was still President" or "They dealt with the same scouting department" or any other self sealing argument one could make up.  The buck stops at the owners, agreed?

 

I suggest next time you don't start a huge debate over a throw away comment that was tongue in cheek with truth behind it.  But I'm sure you just salivated at all the ways you could attribute things to me and then argue them, then complain about how this wasn't the thread for it.  I just attributed you thinking that Jagr was better than Parise and I admitted my mistake.  Are Mods automatically absolved of having to do mea culpas or is it just you?

 

 

I'm really done with this.  You guys invent realities of how Vanderbeek lost Parise for us or that I am saying he was a great owner.  How about you argue points that I actually assert like these owners don't deserve all of this devotion.  This dedication for the owners is boggling to me.  That's all I'm trying to say, but you guys have nothing to really point to except about Vanderbeek's faults.  I want to talk about the owners and what they do.  They make an analytics department, that's their claim to fame?  Toronto did the same thing and a bunch of other teams for that matter.  You guys have been throwing pot shots at Lou for his last 5 years with no alternatives to offer.  Did I say you'd guys would prefer Max McNab?  No.  You just like straw manning me with owners and trades I've never proposed so you can have something to point at when these owners have done nothing to really invoke this devotion.

 

Go ahead and put your faith bean counters to make a viable NHL team.  Tri talks about me using one post from TG, but you guys are just obsessed with this 2 top 6 forwards away comment from Lou too.  Jeez!  One comment.  Did you see Lou trading picks to pick 2 rentals up last year?  It's just Louspeak, take it with a grain of salt.  You guys might want to do a better job in facilitating real discussion rather than trolling all differing opinions.

 

There's no invention here - I never said Vanderbeek lost Parise, but he certainly did not do what it took to retain him.  He could not do it.  He could not offer the contract that the Wild offered, which had lockout protection, because the NHL would not sign off on that, and the NHL had to sign off on everything he did at that point, because he was essentially broke.

 

So quotes from the owners are to be believed 100%, but quotes from Lou are 'Louspeak' and must not be taken at face value, they must instead be interpreted exactly as how you see fit.  I agree that Lou says a lot of stuff that either isn't true or has no content at all, but why can't that also be true of the owners?

 

The way the 76ers are being run is absolutely without parallel in sports history.  There was a terrific article about it on ESPN a few months ago, but since you are already biased against them, you will just find 30 reasons they're doing it wrong.  They're doing it right.  They draft 3rd overall and unless this is a particularly weak draft they have a shot at an All-Star.

 

You took a dumb potshot at the owners and I responded in kind - I wasn't blaming you for the thread derailment, I was attempting to say 'Let's stop this here, or you can start a new thread'.  I am not a moderator, that title is left over from the njdevs chat room which no longer exists in that form.

 

Where Lou has us is 30th in total assets.  Most of that is because the Devils are reaching the end of a championship cycle and have been in win-now mode for 20 years.  Some of that is by mismanagement.  The re-signings of Bryce Salvador and Dainius Zubrus were colossal failures on every level.  The Clowe signing was wishcasting.  The Devils can't afford another move like this.

[SterioDesign]

Yeah I think Parise leaving was up there especially considering we didn't get anything back from it. I think Lou's stubbornness on certain policies played a big factor in both our rise and fall as well. I guess you can say the two go hand and hand.

 

Amen.

[Derlique]

I'm really done with this.  You guys invent realities of how Vanderbeek lost Parise for us or that I am saying he was a great owner.  How about you argue points that I actually assert like these owners don't deserve all of this devotion.  This dedication for the owners is boggling to me.  That's all I'm trying to say, but you guys have nothing to really point to except about Vanderbeek's faults.  I want to talk about the owners and what they do.  They make an analytics department, that's their claim to fame?  Toronto did the same thing and a bunch of other teams for that matter.  You guys have been throwing pot shots at Lou for his last 5 years with no alternatives to offer.  Did I say you'd guys would prefer Max McNab?  No.  You just like straw manning me with owners and trades I've never proposed so you can have something to point at when these owners have done nothing to really invoke this devotion.

 

Go ahead and put your faith bean counters to make a viable NHL team.  Tri talks about me using one post from TG, but you guys are just obsessed with this 2 top 6 forwards away comment from Lou too.  Jeez!  One comment.  Did you see Lou trading picks to pick 2 rentals up last year?  It's just Louspeak, take it with a grain of salt.  You guys might want to do a better job in facilitating real discussion rather than trolling all differing opinions.

 

You really dont get the loyalty to the new owners? The former owner, Jeff Vanderbeek had no money and was getting sued by multiple corporations. The guy couldnt pay his goddamn bills. I mean, it was a friggin joke. How does that make him any more fit to run a team than your average wealthy fan? You also seem to mention the new owners "meddling" when Vanderbeek was responsible for the Kovalchuk fiasco.

 

Like others have brought up:

 

New sponsorships, upgrades in fan experience like 3D projections and new, local food options are some. Also, they created that group for season ticket holders to have their voices heard. Not to mention they got us out of debt, securing our future in NJ. They grew the business staff three-fold by hiring so many new ticket reps. One more point, I have seen more Devils advertising, like billboards the last two years than I have seen in the previous 10.

 

You gotta be one of those "you suck" people

[DevsMan84]

lol like others have said I don't get people who hate the new owners.  It really does pretty much come down to a few factors, but the major ones are the chant, the fact that the Devils happen to be not good at the time when they bought them, and other dumb assumptions.

 

I saw on FB the other day a guy bashing the new owners for not having a draft party/equipment sale.  Never mind that Jeff didn't have one in 2012 either.

 

Jeff seemed like a nice guy and a fan, but really he was playing with other people's money for years.  When Chambers finally had enough of Jeff spending his money is when he cut the cord and Jeff was exposed.  There is no way in 2015 that Jeff would ever be allowed by the NHL BOG to own a team.

[themightyall]

Tri:

 

I didn't say the quotes from the owners were taken at face value.  Just like Lou, I interpret them based on lots of things as I see, just like you and everyone else.  Does everyone have to view things your way?  By your standards, we shouldn't believe Parise saying it wasn't about money, but believe Lou that he was going to get 2 rentals at the trade deadline, even though he didn't.  Better yet, you believe whatever ESPN says about the NBA.  I'm allowed to have an opinion about the owners just like you do.  Because it's different doesn't mean that I must be wrong and you must be right.  If you want to stop the argument, then stop it.  You don't have to attribute opinions to people and keep arguing.  I'm just saying I don't like the owners.  But that's "dumb" by your standards.  Well I find plenty of the things you do as petty/shortsighted/asinine/childish.  If you want to add ad hominem fallacies to the way you argue, congrats, you sunk me to your level.

 

Mantzas:

 

So I say these owners are bad therefore I must think the old one was good?  Just keep making me love Vanderbeek, it doesn't make it true. 

 

You aren't bringing up anything about hockey, which is the only thing I brought up about the owners.  They are bean counters.  Of course they did a good job at the business side.  I could care less seeing 3d projections or having three times the reps, or having advertising if the team sucks.

 

You are just sad with your trolling.  Never did I say anything about the "You Suck" chant.  I just want them to score the goal.  But keep on saying what I think and don't think.  It really provokes discussion from the other posters.

Edited June 11, 2015 by themightyall

[DevsMan84]

Again you are basing your opinion of the new owners in regards to the on-ice product when they bought the team that was reaching the end of the sports cycle.  They didn't just take over, flip a switch, and suddenly they sucked overnight.  This was years, maybe decades in the making, which included most of the JVB years.  A lot of it was mortgaging the future for the sake of winning championships.  I wouldn't trade those 3 cups for anything in the world so its the inevitable happening.

 

The owners have owned the team for about 22 months now.  Just don't think where the team is now is a result of just those 22 months.

[sundstrom]

 

You aren't bringing up anything about hockey, which is the only thing I brought up about the owners.  They are bean counters.  Of course they did a good job at the business side.  I could care less seeing 3d projections or having three times the reps, or having advertising if the team sucks.

 

 

 

i don't understand this comment and why you assert it makes them bad owners. I'm not talking about any other owner or making comparisons.

 

let's stick with harris and blitzer.

 

to this point, what "hockey ops" decision did they make besides kicking Lou upstairs and signing off on Shero? or are you taking comments they've made and projecting what the future could look like (using terms like ROI) and are convinced that they will look to make the devils into the 76ers for the next 5 years to hoard draft picks and prospects