Hall for the Hart

[Neb00rs]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Yeah. If he didn't that would be a far greater travesty than Hall not winning the Hart. 

The best argument for Nico is his strong two-way play. But yeah, Barzal will be the most unanimous winner of any award this year. On paper Butcher probably has a better argument for the Calder than Nico.

[redruM]

4 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Marty won 4 Vezina trophies. 

should have won more

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

The best argument for Nico is his strong two-way play. But yeah, Barzal will be the most unanimous winner of any award this year. On paper Butcher probably has a better argument for the Calder than Nico.

I can't be sure, but I can't remember anyone ever winning a Calder for strong two way play.

Barzal was top 12 in scoring and top 5 in assists, not among rookies, in the entire league. No way he should not win. 

[Neb00rs]

1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

I can't be sure, but I can't remember anyone ever winning a Calder for strong two way play.

Barzal was top 12 in scoring and top 5 in assists, not among rookies, in the entire league. No way he should not win. 

As I said, Barzal will be the most unanimous winner, no doubt. I don't mean to say Nico should win only for two-way play but if there's an argument to be made for him, it's that he had 50+ points and played a strong two-way game. He played on the penalty kill a lot more than Barzal did that's for sure

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Neb00rs said:

As I said, Barzal will be the most unanimous winner, no doubt. I don't mean to say Nico should win only for two-way play but if there's an argument to be made for him, it's that he had 50+ points and played a strong two-way game. He played on the penalty kill a lot more than Barzal did that's for sure

He had a very nice season. Its just not possible to beat a guy who had as many points as Barzal. He outscored the #2 rookie scorer by 20 points. While points aren't everything, when it comes to awards time, such disparity is hard to overcome. 

[Neb00rs]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

He had a very nice season. Its just not possible to beat a guy who had as many points as Barzal. He outscored the #2 rookie scorer by 20 points. While points aren't everything, when it comes to awards time, such disparity is hard to overcome. 

Not only is he not going to beat Barzal, he's not going to be a finalist. I'll be very surprised if it's not Keller, Boeser, Barzal...maybe McAvoy instead of Boeser or Keller.

[Lateralous]

29 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

As I said, Barzal will be the most unanimous winner, no doubt. I don't mean to say Nico should win only for two-way play but if there's an argument to be made for him, it's that he had 50+ points and played a strong two-way game. He played on the penalty kill a lot more than Barzal did that's for sure

I think the argument to be made is that you would take Hischier over Barzal going forward.   Hischier looks like the type of center you actually win with as your 1C IMO. 

Barzal had a great season no doubt and should be the Calder winner but I could see him leveling out as prime Scott Gomez (30 goal year anomaly excluded).   Given his junior scoring, I wouldn't be surprised to see him below 20 goals most years and his defensive game doesn't strike me as anything top end.   He is a wizard with the passing though.         

18 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Not only is he not going to beat Barzal, he's not going to be a finalist. I'll be very surprised if it's not Keller, Boeser, Barzal...maybe McAvoy instead of Boeser or Keller.

Conner is another one that could sneak in there.  

Edited April 11, 2018 by Lateralous

[mfitz804]

35 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Not only is he not going to beat Barzal, he's not going to be a finalist. I'll be very surprised if it's not Keller, Boeser, Barzal...maybe McAvoy instead of Boeser or Keller.

Agreed. 

[Neb00rs]

48 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

     Conner is another one that could sneak in there.  

I just think what Boeser did in 62 games was pretty impressive .The only players that are ahead of Boeser in points that I don't think will be finalists are Conner and Gourde. Boeser had 2 less points than Conner in 14 less games and 9 less points than Gourde in 20 less games and Gourde is 26 and played 20 games last year. Conner also played 20 games last year. I would also certainly pick Hischier over Connor. Nico had equal even strength points to Connor and was relied on way more defensively. Connor didn't even play the PK.

On the defensive side of things what McAvoy did in 63 games is probably tops. Butcher and Sergachev both had a slide for awhile in playing full seasons, I think that hurt them. Also, McAvoy despite only having 32 points in the 3/4 season he played, had more even strength points than Butcher or Sergachev. McAvoy also played on the PK unlike Butcher or Sergachev. In short, he's a real defenseman already at 20 years old.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Neb00rs

[Nicomo]

6 hours ago, redruM said:

should have won more

Probably. Can’t really deny Hasek deserved all of his though. At least Marty won more than Roy. 

[LittleBallofHate]

Some rehash but some nice tidbits in this article: https://sports.yahoo.com/taylor-hall-raises-bar-himself-122444293.html

It is his team now. At one point Hall told Hynes that he thought the coach was being unjustly hard on certain players and asked for a looser leash. When Grabner was struggling to adjust after getting traded from the Rangers, Shero texted and asked him to intervene. On the ice, Hall remains the same old even-strength possession monster whose lateral speed ties defensemen into pretzels, but his power play points drastically improved from 15 to 37 from last season, “a crazy difference” that he attributes to greater patience with the puck.

“If there’s one guy I could look at and be like, that’s a pretty cool storyline, it’s Phil Kessel,” Hall says. “The amount of s--- that he took in Toronto, and he goes to Pittsburgh and wins two Cups, I thought that was pretty cool. It’s not like I’m going to be Phil Kessel, but you know what, people were wrong about this guy. Not that people were going to be wrong about me or whatever, but it’s a nice story to just have out there. It’s a little bit relatable, for sure. He took a lot of s---. I took some s---. And he has two Cups. I don’t have any Cups yet. But hope so soon.”

[LittleBallofHate]

Love this quote about/by Coleman after last night's game/win!   

Coleman said he noticed the way Hall was playing and wanted to match his effort as best he could.

"Taylor Hall is Taylor Hall to me every night. He is a professional and one of the best players on the ice every night, day in and day out," Coleman said. "He scores big goals and he is our emotional leader, and he is the reason we are here, and he is the reason we continue to move [along] here. It's almost expected from him now, and I am happy to see him keep getting rewarded. He wants this, and I know he wants to win, and it makes it easy to play for him."

[NJDfan1711]

Before everyone jumps in and says I'm crazy and a moron, let me just say that I am not at all against giving Hall the C next year, but...is anyone else a little afraid and/or think that Greene (or someone else) should be captain instead?  I always think the captain is supposed to be the guy who is the best leader on the team - the guy the other players turn to when they need something - good or bad.  The guy who typically has the most, or at least close to the most, experience on the team.  The guy who remains composed but can also be tenacious.  Not saying Hall isn't any of those things....but...my only fear is that making him captain would put too much pressure and responsibility on him.  The guy already has carried the team on his back in so many ways, and we would be in the bottom 5 of the league talking lottery and draft picks again without him.  I just feel that right now things seem to work well because Hall is wearing an A and has just the right amount of responsibility to keep doing what he's doing.  I feel next year if he has the C and things aren't going so well or we struggle for any period of time, and if he is still #1 on this team in all the major offensive categories, that he might have no one to turn to and therefore struggle himself, or even get frustrated.  Who knows if Hall or any of the other guys on the team actually turn to Greene in times of struggles and when things get tough, but I can't help but wonder if Hall is excelling because he doesn't have to worry about anything else.  He knows when he's out on the ice or on the bench that there's another guy, an older guy, who at the end of the day still bears the responsibility and the weight on his shoulders, whether it's dealing with the refs, Hynes, or anything else "manager"/captain related.  If you think back to when we had a lot of success, for example when Stevens was our captain, while he was certainly great and one of our best defensemen, you could say that he probably wasn't our best player or most skilled.  That was probably Brodeur, or Elias, or Mogilny....Gomez, Gionta, Niedermayer, Maclean, etc.  You could really name dozens of guys, but the point is that it was always a guy who wasn't necessarily counted on to provide offense and win games.  Sure he was a difference maker in other ways, but as the game has changed over the last several years and even our team in general is leaning more offensively now than it was in the past, I'm just thinking out loud and wondering if we would be better suited to make someone else captain and let Hall continue to do what he does.  I just don't want him to get named captain and have all eyes on him (even more than they already are), and in a few years if he's still the only one doing work, having him look around at the team and be like "I'm the only one pulling my weight around here, F this sh!t, I'm out". 

[mfitz804]

40 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

“Play FOR him”... that quote says enough. This guy is the captain we’ve been searching for.

Its to the point where if he's not the captain next season, its completely absurd. I will feel bad for Andy as I do anytime someone gets their letter stripped, but it is what it is. 

 

1 minute ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I just don't want him to get named captain and have all eyes on him (even more than they already are), and in a few years if he's still the only one doing work, having him look around at the team and be like "I'm the only one pulling my weight around here, F this sh!t, I'm out". 

I have the opposite feeling; handing him the keys might be exactly the thing that keeps him here.

Let's be honest, all eyes are on him anyway. For good reason. He IS the team this year, he knows it, we know it, the rest of the league and their fans all know it. 

Anyone who would sign him is going to give him tons of money. Not every team will make it "his team". Judging from the way he speaks and the way others speak about him, I think Taylor would find being captain a very big honor and I think that is something he aspires to. 

And you keep guys like Hall by giving them stuff they aspire to, because they earn it. 

[NJDfan1711]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Let's be honest, all eyes are on him anyway. For good reason. He IS the team this year, he knows it, we know it, the rest of the league and their fans all know it. 

Anyone who would sign him is going to give him tons of money. Not every team will make it "his team". Judging from the way he speaks and the way others speak about him, I think Taylor would find being captain a very big honor and I think that is something he aspires to. 

And you keep guys like Hall by giving them stuff they aspire to, because they earn it. 

That's essentially my point though - everyone already knows he's basically the captain already, so putting the C on the jersey would just be a formality - why not just leave it as is.  I doubt Greene is going to be off the team next year, and he'll still be the guy with the longest tenure on the team, so maybe don't rock the boat and just let Hall try to keep having magical seasons without worrying about anything else.

I completely get the other side though, and would be totally fine if he was named captain (which I expect will happen).  Merely playing devil's advocate since the topic was brought up.

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

That's essentially my point though - everyone already knows he's basically the captain already, so putting the C on the jersey would just be a formality - why not just leave it as is.  I doubt Greene is going to be off the team next year, and he'll still be the guy with the longest tenure on the team, so maybe don't rock the boat and just let Hall try to keep having magical seasons without worrying about anything else.

I completely get the other side though, and would be totally fine if he was named captain (which I expect will happen).  Merely playing devil's advocate since the topic was brought up.

And I can Devil's Advocate you right back...

If he's already basically the captain, and the team is already on his shoulders, he already has that pressure. The C on his jersey won't be any added pressure. 

I do, however, have a certain amount of reservations in stripping a captain's C from a guy who is still on the team. I think it takes a pretty extraordinary set of circumstances for it to be warranted, and I think we have that here. Its basically a whole new team, a new coach, new GM, etc. since Greene was named captain. Plus you have a guy like Hall doing what he's doing. 

I suspect Andy Greene knows his skills have declined, and he sees what Hall is up to and he's prepared to deal with the consequences of it. It's inevitable. 

[Daniel]

I don't think Hall cares about getting the C immediately.  If anything might not want to be in a position to be stepping on anyone's toes, and he's certainly not going to make any demands with respect to Greene, who is still very respected among the players and I'm almost certain by Hall as well.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I don't think Hall cares about getting the C immediately.  If anything might not want to be in a position to be stepping on anyone's toes, and he's certainly not going to make any demands with respect to Greene, who is still very respected among the players and I'm almost certain by Hall as well.

I think Hall will obviously accept the C if it's offered to him, but would never actively campaign for it, and I can't see him being comfortable taking it unless everyone (meaning Greene, Hynes and a few select others) was fully on board.  Even though Greene's current on-ice play often has us cringing, I agree in that I think his teammates still have a lot of respect for him, and yeah, that includes Hall.   

This being said, I won't be terribly surprised if Hall's wearing the C next year, and Greene's got an A.  If not next year, then definitely the following season (assuming Shero doesn't buy Greene out of his final year).  Greene might still be the captain in name, but it's clearly Taylor's team now. 

[NJDfan1711]

41 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

And I can Devil's Advocate you right back...

If he's already basically the captain, and the team is already on his shoulders, he already has that pressure. The C on his jersey won't be any added pressure. 

I do, however, have a certain amount of reservations in stripping a captain's C from a guy who is still on the team. I think it takes a pretty extraordinary set of circumstances for it to be warranted, and I think we have that here. Its basically a whole new team, a new coach, new GM, etc. since Greene was named captain. Plus you have a guy like Hall doing what he's doing. 

I suspect Andy Greene knows his skills have declined, and he sees what Hall is up to and he's prepared to deal with the consequences of it. It's inevitable. 

True.  Greene doesn't strike me as a guy that would be a roadblock and/or make things difficult for management or Hall if it came to them asking him to give up the C, however I also don't think he'd volunteer it either, since to me in order to be named captain in the first place, you need to have a certain level of pride and dignity, and accepting and wearing the C generally means fighting for it and wanting to earn the right to wear it and continue wearing it.

[mfitz804]

50 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I don't think Hall cares about getting the C immediately.  If anything might not want to be in a position to be stepping on anyone's toes, and he's certainly not going to make any demands with respect to Greene, who is still very respected among the players and I'm almost certain by Hall as well.

He definitely will not want to step on any toes and won't make demands, but if they offer it to him, he's taking it. 

[Nicomo]

I know the Hart is only a regular season award, but man, Kopitar’s Kings getting swept and him only having 2 points...

I still think it’s between Hall and Mackinnon.

[NJDfan1711]

6 hours ago, Nicomo said:

I know the Hart is only a regular season award, but man, Kopitar’s Kings getting swept and him only having 2 points...

I still think it’s between Hall and Mackinnon.

I was thinking the same thing.  It's hard not to take that into account.  It's kind of like seeing evidence at a trial and then the judge making it inadmissible and somehow you're supposed to pretend you never saw or heard it.  

[LittleBallofHate]

Taylor's looking forward to getting better for next season - that crazy kid: 

Taylor Hall said he stilll has another level to reach as an NHL player and is looking forward to getting there with the New Jersey Devils next season.

The left wing had an NHL career-high 93 points (39 goals, 54 assists) in 76 games and also set career highs in plus-minus (plus-14), power-play points (37), overtime goals (three) and shooting percentage (14.0).

"I'm only 26 years old so I think I still have at least 3-to-4 seasons more where I can keep improving and hopefully as our team gets better at doing the little things to make you successful, I'll get there," Hall said Tuesday. "I think I played OK in the Stanley Cup Playoffs, but there's still another level you need to get to in the playoffs."

...

"I'd love to be in Las Vegas and go to the NHL Awards Show (on June 20) but we'll see what happens," Hall said. "It's been a successful season for me, personally, and lot of fun to come here and grow as a player and as a person. I think it'd be nice to be recognized, for sure, but I like I said, I think I can get better as a player and I'm looking forward to doing that this summer."

...

Hall has two seasons remaining on his contract before he could become an unrestricted free agent July 1, 2020., but said he isn't looking too far ahead and prefers to focus on next season.

"I like it here in New Jersey, and it would take a good reason to want to leave but we'll see how that plays out," Hall said. "There's a lot of time before my contract is done."

Quotes from this article: https://www.nhl.com/news/taylor-hall-sees-room-for-improvement-for-new-jersey-devils/c-298236428

[Devs3cups]

6 hours ago, LittleBallofHate said:

Taylor's looking forward to getting better for next season - that crazy kid: 

Taylor Hall said he stilll has another level to reach as an NHL player and is looking forward to getting there with the New Jersey Devils next season.

The left wing had an NHL career-high 93 points (39 goals, 54 assists) in 76 games and also set career highs in plus-minus (plus-14), power-play points (37), overtime goals (three) and shooting percentage (14.0).

"I'm only 26 years old so I think I still have at least 3-to-4 seasons more where I can keep improving and hopefully as our team gets better at doing the little things to make you successful, I'll get there," Hall said Tuesday. "I think I played OK in the Stanley Cup Playoffs, but there's still another level you need to get to in the playoffs."

...

"I'd love to be in Las Vegas and go to the NHL Awards Show (on June 20) but we'll see what happens," Hall said. "It's been a successful season for me, personally, and lot of fun to come here and grow as a player and as a person. I think it'd be nice to be recognized, for sure, but I like I said, I think I can get better as a player and I'm looking forward to doing that this summer."

...

Hall has two seasons remaining on his contract before he could become an unrestricted free agent July 1, 2020., but said he isn't looking too far ahead and prefers to focus on next season.

"I like it here in New Jersey, and it would take a good reason to want to leave but we'll see how that plays out," Hall said. "There's a lot of time before my contract is done."

Quotes from this article: https://www.nhl.com/news/taylor-hall-sees-room-for-improvement-for-new-jersey-devils/c-298236428

He's staying