Versus vs ESPN

[devilsrule33]

Is the debate now bigger than ever?

I am bringing this debate up one more time because I was just thinking about how the NHL would be great on ESPN right now. We have discussed this many times and many people think that Versus made not be the best option, but it gives it the respect it deserves (by default really). Many have also said that the NHL on ESPN would be compeltely lost in the shuffle between NFL, college football, college basketball, MLB and now the NBA, which I don't think ESPN had when it covered the NHL.

Back to my first point. Right now you have the ultimate matchup: Ovechkin vs Crosby. Gretzky and Lemieux never met in the playoffs but here you have the two best players in the league going at it for the first time ever and putting on an incredible show. ESPN has actually done a very good job covering this battle comparing it to Magic vs Bird. It's been the front page of their website before and after every game. Right now if you go ESPN you have Crosby vs Ovechkin being the Sportscenter Highlight of the Night. It's actually hockey coverage done right (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4139061)

They have had some good features on the two, and just did a really good piece on Alexander Ovechkin on E:60 last week. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4087085&a...egoryid=3060647

In just two games so far the series has lived up to the hype as both have 4 goals already. But the series is stuck on Versus. You have millions of people reading about this series out Ovechkin and Crosby, but they just aren't stumbling upon this series with the game on Versus. Millions of people each day flip to ESPN having no idea what is on. If this is on ESPN, chances are you see a lot of people who have heard about Ovechkin and Crosby and how great they are stay to check it out. And what they would have seen is hockey being played at the absolute highest level. They would have seen Ovechkin's ridiculous slap shot and wrist shot, and his awesome celebrations. They would have seen Crosby's great concentration around the net.

But you just won't get sports fans checking out Versus to see what's on. This isn't even taking into account how many people don't even get the channel who might want to watch. As I said, ESPN is doing a great job covering this series considering that this is a sport that isn't that popular in the states and a sport they don't even cover. Like ESPN or not, it is a sports media empire and when they want you to watch something, they can suffocate you with coverage.

Anyway, Versus has had some trouble getting games out to people this playoff series as well. Last week you have two game 7s at the exact same time and only one channel. That is a joke. If I am a Devils fan in Boston, I can't even watch the Devils play game 7. In round two, when there are two games at the same time, again you can only see one. Bruins fans couldn't watch game 1 because of the Wings-Ducks game. When you can't see every playoff game at least in round 2, there is something wrong with the current situation.

Now this year Versus is showing game 3 and 4 of the Stanley Cup Finals. What happens if you start attracting and get a great matchup like Ovechkin and the Caps vs the Wings, or Bruins-Blackhawks. You are going to have a ton of fans shut out of a possible Cup Clinching game. Maybe they watch game 1 and 2 of the Finals on NBC and like what they see but then aren't able to watch game 3 and 4.

Once again, I know this is something that has been debated time and time again, but when you have a matchup like this, Versus is not the answer. And I get the debate from both sides and I agree with both. But at times like this, I can't help and think how much better the NHL would be on ESPN right now. Versus is a nice place for a small die hard group of fans. But it isn't a great spot when a sport needs to grow, and the league has the perfect matchup to grow. Is it possible for hockey to get coverage from both? Baseball has ESPN, TNT, and Fox. The NBA has ABC, ESPN, and TNT.

Here again is some of the coverage ESPN has given hockey lately, and they are actually worth watching.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4116491&a...egoryid=2459791 (Series Preview including interviews wih Ovechkin and Crosby)

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4087085&a...egoryid=3060647 (Ovechkin E:60 Piece)

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4139061 (ESPN Highlight of the Night)

Edited May 5, 2009 by devilsrule33

[ZZPop91519]

i vote ESPN only because i don't get Versus here at school

[Colin226]

ESPN, because "eh... what the hell, right?"

My vote actually goes to anyone who broadcasts in Ewing, NJ.. MSG+ doesn't and Versus is blacked out when MSG+ also has the games (like during the playoffs) so I get fvcked.. But hey it's cool that I can get Flyers games on 2 different channels NOT!

Sorry, I just felt like venting...

[DevilNurn]

I like Versus...part of the reason I like being a hockey fan is just because it gives me a form of identity over some of the other sports, and I am a fan of other sports. But what it comes down to is that I would prefer to have hockey a primary role on Versus than a secondary role on ESPN. It would be full of advertisements for the other sporting events that night and between periods would be analysis of other sports. Versus is very good to hockey. I like it a lot. And I get it everywhere I live/go so I have nothing to complain about.

[ice dog]

espn is pure sh!t...plain and simple.

[MantaRay]

Versus, mainly because I am a hockey fan. I know when its on and when its not.

On ESPN hockey will be pre-empted by the NBA, and Monster Truck pulls.

[adavid]

I hate them both. ESPN - just blah. I cant remember the last time I watched that network.

Versus - Well, there is something wrong about the their telecasts. I cant place my finger on it, but they always feel 2nd rate.

[BlueSkirt]

i vote ESPN only because i don't get Versus here at school

that's bright !

[Masked Fan]

On ESPN hockey will be pre-empted by the NBA, and Monster Truck pulls.

Oh yeah, and Versus won't show bull riding instead?

Ya gotta go with ESPN since it is more widely seen, but with VS at least there aint a bunch of meaningless baseball games to contend with.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

There is only one legitimate argument for someone to want it ESPN and not Versus and that is that you don't get it.

Versus coverage has been EXPONENTIALLY better than ESPN's because other than Bull Riding and MMA, it's the only programming they have. I'd much rather have it on a channel where I know I can see a game almost every night during the playoffs than on ESPN where it has to compete with Basketball/Baseball/Poker/Stupid News Shows.

[Masked Fan]

There is only one legitimate argument for someone to want it ESPN and not Versus and that is that you don't get it.

Versus coverage has been EXPONENTIALLY better than ESPN's because other than Bull Riding and MMA, it's the only programming they have. I'd much rather have it on a channel where I know I can see a game almost every night during the playoffs than on ESPN where it has to compete with Basketball/Baseball/Poker/Stupid News Shows.

exactamundo.

[Rock]

One big disadvantage of Versus is that it is one channel. When two games are on the same time it is a problem. Versus had some hiccups with not showing the last pick of an entry draft in favor of "Live" Bullriding, but they seemed to have improved in that area. Despite all Versus' problems, I'd rather have it there instead of ESPN with it's smug commentators on Sportscenter or it's other shows. This was a guest host on PTI last week paraphrasing: "Why are you asking me about hockey instead of basketball or the Kentucky Derby?"

[MantaRay]

Oh yeah, and Versus won't show bull riding instead?

On VS the NHL get preference.

On ESPN Hockey is on the lowest rung of priorities.

There is only one legitimate argument for someone to want it ESPN and not Versus and that is that you don't get it.

Versus coverage has been EXPONENTIALLY better than ESPN's because other than Bull Riding and MMA, it's the only programming they have. I'd much rather have it on a channel where I know I can see a game almost every night during the playoffs than on ESPN where it has to compete with Basketball/Baseball/Poker/Stupid News Shows.

Exactly.

There is only one legitimate argument for someone to want it ESPN and not Versus and that is that you don't get it.

Versus coverage has been EXPONENTIALLY better than ESPN's because other than Bull Riding and MMA, it's the only programming they have. I'd much rather have it on a channel where I know I can see a game almost every night during the playoffs than on ESPN where it has to compete with Basketball/Baseball/Poker/Stupid News Shows.

Exactly.

[ryani1978]

The headline of this topic should be "Versus vs ESPN 2". The only games that could be on ESPN would be the Finals. They have the NBA playoffs going on the same time as the NHL playoffs, NHL would be bumped to ESPN 2 everytime.

[devilsrule33]

The main problem I have is Versus can't grow the game. If ESPN has something they like, they can market the sh!t out of it. Right now the NHL has something that is really worth marketing and I think Versus is holding back any growth during this very opportunistic time.

The fact is ESPN had the NHL in an awful era (dead puck era). There were no great superstars worth marketing. The product wasn't very good. Devils-Ducks, Lightning-Flames, Canes-Wings...these weren't great teams to market and they weren't particularity good series to begin with. It could be different now.

[nmigliore]

easily ESPN.

[MantaRay]

The main problem I have is Versus can't grow the game. If ESPN has something they like, they can market the sh!t out of it. Right now the NHL has something that is really worth marketing and I think Versus is holding back any growth during this very opportunistic time.

The fact is ESPN had the NHL in an awful era (dead puck era). There were no great superstars worth marketing. The product wasn't very good. Devils-Ducks, Lightning-Flames, Canes-Wings...these weren't great teams to market and they weren't particularity good series to begin with. It could be different now.

LOL. Where does one start.

MYTH #1: The main problem I have is Versus can't grow the game.

Reality: Versus ratings are higher than ESPN's for hockey. Versus ratings increased again by 22% this season.

MYTH #2: If ESPN has something they like, they can market the sh!t out of it.

Correction: If ESPN has something they make sh!t out of it.

Reality: ESPN is the graveyard for countless sports groups who have also entertained this myth: WNBA, NFL Europe, AFL, Major League Lacross, NHL, MISL, WUSA, etc., etc.

ESPN is beholden to the NBA and the NFL for signing incredibly bad tv contracts with them. They also have to promote MLB so they don' t lose ratings in during the down times of Summer. The NHL, like all the "other properites" are on the lower rung of priorities.

MYTH #3: The fact is ESPN had the NHL in an awful era (dead puck era). There were no great superstars worth marketing. The product wasn't very good. Devils-Ducks, Lightning-Flames, Canes-Wings...these weren't great teams to market and they weren't particularity good series to begin with. It could be different now.

Reality: Lame excuse. ESPN had multiple Hall-of-Fame players, two potential Dynasty's and many up and coming players to market---They choose NOT to, because they had to promote other sports.

ESPN gave the NHL ugly duckling status and they will reclaim that status IF they ever go back.

If anything I would rather have them on USA network.

Edited May 5, 2009 by MantaRay

[MadDog2020]

LOL. Where does one start.

MYTH #1: The main problem I have is Versus can't grow the game.

Reality: Versus ratings are higher than ESPN's for hockey. Versus ratings increased again by 22% this season.

MYTH #2: If ESPN has something they like, they can market the sh!t out of it.

Correction: If ESPN has something they make sh!t out of it.

Reality: ESPN is the graveyard for countless sports groups who have also entertained this myth: WNBA, NFL Europe, AFL, Major League Lacross, NHL, MISL, WUSA, etc., etc.

ESPN is beholden to the NBA and the NFL for signing incredibly bad tv contracts with them. They also have to promote MLB so they don' t lose ratings in during the down times of Summer. The NHL, like all the "other properites" are on the lower rung of priorities.

MYTH #3: The fact is ESPN had the NHL in an awful era (dead puck era). There were no great superstars worth marketing. The product wasn't very good. Devils-Ducks, Lightning-Flames, Canes-Wings...these weren't great teams to market and they weren't particularity good series to begin with. It could be different now.

Reality: Lame excuse. ESPN had multiple Hall-of-Fame players, two potential Dynasty's and many up and coming players to market---They choose NOT to, because they had to promote other sports.

ESPN gave the NHL ugly duckling status and they will reclaim that status IF they ever go back.

If anything I would rather have them on USA network.

+ infinity.

[devilsrule33]

LOL. Where does one start.

MYTH #1: The main problem I have is Versus can't grow the game.

Reality: Versus ratings are higher than ESPN's for hockey. Versus ratings increased again by 22% this season.

MYTH #2: If ESPN has something they like, they can market the sh!t out of it.

Correction: If ESPN has something they make sh!t out of it.

Reality: ESPN is the graveyard for countless sports groups who have also entertained this myth: WNBA, NFL Europe, AFL, Major League Lacross, NHL, MISL, WUSA, etc., etc.

ESPN is beholden to the NBA and the NFL for signing incredibly bad tv contracts with them. They also have to promote MLB so they don' t lose ratings in during the down times of Summer. The NHL, like all the "other properites" are on the lower rung of priorities.

MYTH #3: The fact is ESPN had the NHL in an awful era (dead puck era). There were no great superstars worth marketing. The product wasn't very good. Devils-Ducks, Lightning-Flames, Canes-Wings...these weren't great teams to market and they weren't particularity good series to begin with. It could be different now.

Reality: Lame excuse. ESPN had multiple Hall-of-Fame players, two potential Dynasty's and many up and coming players to market---They choose NOT to, because they had to promote other sports.

ESPN gave the NHL ugly duckling status and they will reclaim that status IF they ever go back.

If anything I would rather have them on USA network.

Versus has better ratings than ESPN or ESPN 2 because the game of hockey is more entertaining. The wave of young talent that has entered the league is incredible. These are just the facts. You wanted ESPN to market Jarome Iginla or Martin St Louis? Milan Hejduk or Markus Naslund?

I'm not saying hockey wouldn't get lost in the shuffle with ESPN. All I am saying is the game is back being better than ever and is ready to really grow. Just look how Ovechkin has completely captured all of Washington right now.

And I completely disagree about ESPN choosing not to market hockey during the dead puck era. They tried but the game wasn't interesting and there was nothing exciting to market. Hard to get people interested about Tampa Bay and Calgary.

[Triumph]

Versus has better ratings than ESPN or ESPN 2 because the game of hockey is more entertaining. The wave of young talent that has entered the league is incredible. These are just the facts. You wanted ESPN to market Jarome Iginla or Martin St Louis? Milan Hejduk or Markus Naslund?

I'm not saying hockey wouldn't get lost in the shuffle with ESPN. All I am saying is the game is back being better than ever and is ready to really grow. Just look how Ovechkin has completely captured all of Washington right now.

And I completely disagree about ESPN choosing not to market hockey during the dead puck era. They tried but the game wasn't interesting and there was nothing exciting to market. Hard to get people interested about Tampa Bay and Calgary.

tampa bay-calgary was at the very end of espn's run. the point is they got handed the contract when detroit and colorado and philadelphia were the best teams in the league.

i don't think, with espn's current commitment to basketball, that they could guarantee the nhl 2 game 7s anyway, unless shoving one of them to ESPNews counts. if you live in a different market than your team, get center ice or find a good bar or there's no guarantee you can watch the game, it's as simple as that.

there's a lot of advantages to espn, but the truth is that hockey will never be a huge sport on tv (too much downtime), and espn didn't really promote the game very well, sticking it on tv on obscure nights when there were holes in the programming lineup. there's absolutely no reason why they wouldn't just do that again.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Triumph

[Prucenterrules]

I said ESPN because if we were on there the NHL would get a little bit more promotion and it would be cool to have a nightly show like baseball tonight.

[devilsrule33]

tampa bay-calgary was at the very end of espn's run. the point is they got handed the contract when detroit and colorado and philadelphia were the best teams in the league.

i don't think, with espn's current commitment to basketball, that they could guarantee the nhl 2 game 7s anyway, unless shoving one of them to ESPNews counts. if you live in a different market than your team, get center ice or find a good bar or there's no guarantee you can watch the game, it's as simple as that.

there's a lot of advantages to espn, but the truth is that hockey will never be a huge sport on tv (too much downtime), and espn didn't really promote the game very well, sticking it on tv on obscure nights when there were holes in the programming lineup. there's absolutely no reason why they wouldn't just do that again.

I can't argue with anything here. But ESPN/ABC got some crummy Cup Finals anyway. Dallas-Buffalo, Detroit-Washington...

I just think it is crazy that in this day and age you can't see a game 7, or all the second round series. Half of Boston-Carolina is not on Versus. Obviously no one will ever know, but it would be really interesting to see what kind of ratings the Pens-Caps series would get on ESPN compared to Versus, especially with the attention ESPN is giving it.

But I still believe ESPN didn't do anything wrong with its hockey coverage. They gave it a nightly show, but in the end with so many sports, it's hard to give that much coverage to a sport that wasn't very popular and didn't have much to market in the first place.

[Triumph]

I can't argue with anything here. But ESPN/ABC got some crummy Cup Finals anyway. Dallas-Buffalo, Detroit-Washington...

dallas-buffalo? you mean one market that has been strong in attendance and one that is insanely loyal? if you can't get ratings for that, give up.

I just think it is crazy that in this day and age you can't see a game 7, or all the second round series. Half of Boston-Carolina is not on Versus. Obviously no one will ever know, but it would be really interesting to see what kind of ratings the Pens-Caps series would get on ESPN compared to Versus, especially with the attention ESPN is giving it.

the thing about the 'flipping through the channels' comment that i've been seeing a lot - the average hockey game begins around 7:10 and ends at 9:30. that's 2 hours and 20 minutes. but out of that time, 45 minutes is devoted either to commercials or to the intermission. the intermissions are just a television killer in hockey. there's 34 minutes of absolute downtime in hockey, way more than in baseball, basketball, or football.

But I still believe ESPN didn't do anything wrong with its hockey coverage. They gave it a nightly show, but in the end with so many sports, it's hard to give that much coverage to a sport that wasn't very popular and didn't have much to market in the first place.

it put the game on to fill holes in its programming lineup. i don't think it made any major errors, but that one is enough - at least versus has a night devoted exclusively to hockey. now it would be much, much better if versus weren't owned by another cable company, because maybe thanks to the NHL's popularity versus could rise out of the muck of digital cable and get added to basic cable on non-comcast providers.

[MantaRay]

I can't argue with anything here. But ESPN/ABC got some crummy Cup Finals anyway. Dallas-Buffalo, Detroit-Washington...

I just think it is crazy that in this day and age you can't see a game 7, or all the second round series. Half of Boston-Carolina is not on Versus. Obviously no one will ever know, but it would be really interesting to see what kind of ratings the Pens-Caps series would get on ESPN compared to Versus, especially with the attention ESPN is giving it.

But I still believe ESPN didn't do anything wrong with its hockey coverage. They gave it a nightly show, but in the end with so many sports, it's hard to give that much coverage to a sport that wasn't very popular and didn't have much to market in the first place.

Your deluding yourself and making piss poor arguments.

Dallas-Buffalo SHOULD have done very good ratings as Dallas is the 5th largest TV market and Buffalo/Pittsburgh Winter Classic had incredible ratings.

If the Pens-Caps series were on ESPN it probably would have been on espn2 as ESPN is obligated to run the NBA.

Aside from NHL2NITE (which they cancelled) ESPN did a horrible job with hockey. They didn't promote it or the players and just ran it when they had nothing else.

ESPN will now ruin the MNF institution because they suck.

[devilsrule33]

dallas-buffalo? you mean one market that has been strong in attendance and one that is insanely loyal? if you can't get ratings for that, give up.

the thing about the 'flipping through the channels' comment that i've been seeing a lot - the average hockey game begins around 7:10 and ends at 9:30. that's 2 hours and 20 minutes. but out of that time, 45 minutes is devoted either to commercials or to the intermission. the intermissions are just a television killer in hockey. there's 34 minutes of absolute downtime in hockey, way more than in baseball, basketball, or football.

it put the game on to fill holes in its programming lineup. i don't think it made any major errors, but that one is enough - at least versus has a night devoted exclusively to hockey. now it would be much, much better if versus weren't owned by another cable company, because maybe thanks to the NHL's popularity versus could rise out of the muck of digital cable and get added to basic cable on non-comcast providers.

Are you kidding me with the Dallas-Buffalo comment? Dallas was an extremely boring team under Hitchcock. They were a great defensive team and Buffalo had Hasek and that's it. Dixon Ward, Brian Holzinger, and Michael Grosek are really going to get people excited. With that logic, Columbus - Buffalo or Columbus - Minnesota (if possible) would be a good matchup. Come on. That was an extremely boring series.

What I find interesting is the NHL still needs ESPN for the game to grow. Last year when the Pens-Wings series heated up, ESPN started to talk about the series putting it on the front page of its website...talking about it on Around the Horn and PTI. I'm sure that had something to do with the icnreased ratings. When the Stanley Cup Finals takes place this year, and Versus is showing game 3 and 4 (the games where the series usually takes off after the teams are done feeling each other out), ESPN is going to be the one having to tell the average sports fan that the series is entertaining and what a great matchup this has been. Because most people wouldn't be watching this on Versus. If Detroit-Boston is a great series, ESPN will be putting it on the front page of their site. If Ovechkin is dominating, chances are are it's going to be talked about as a lead story on PTI.